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Posted: 8/30/2010 8:23:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2010 8:27:10 PM EDT by timothy585]
I've been carrying IWB strong-side for years (Kramer leather #3 Horsehide). Recently, I noticed I could seemingly draw quicker from a cross-draw. My weak hand basically just goes vertical to clear my shirt and my presentation feels much quicker. I know there is a worry about sweeping, but I carry a DAO Kahr and don't really worry about that. Any major negatives that I am overlooking? Cross-draw feels really natural for me. Opinions? Plus, I spend alot of the time behind the wheel and comfort is a consideration...even though I'm a lefty. It SUCKS to be a lefty sometimes.
Link Posted: 8/31/2010 8:27:30 AM EDT
I think shooting from retention would be harder from a cross draw. I could be wrong though.
Link Posted: 8/31/2010 12:15:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2010 12:21:24 PM EDT by dfariswheel]
The cross-draw almost disappeared not because it wasn't any good, but because of police concerns about someone grabbing the gun. This is easier with the cross-draw, and the cross-draw is a little harder to conceal then the strong side.
Strangely, the people who carry a Miami Vice type horizontal shoulder holster never think that they're putting the gun in an even better grab position.

However, it has some big advantages.
For one, your off hand can lift your coat or shirt out of the way as you draw the gun, and as soon as the gun clears, your off hand is right there to grab the gun in a two hand grip.
This is faster and less likely to foul the draw when you have to push the coat out of the way with the same hand you're trying to draw the gun with.

The draw can be a lot faster if your hands are naturally closer to the gun as when sitting or clasping your hands in front of you.
If you're sitting or have you hands clasped, your hands are virtually ON the gun.
This can allow you to have your hands very close to the gun without telegraphing that you're armed.
With a strong side carry you can't have your hands close to the gun without making it obvious.
In a potentially dangerous situation, with the cross-draw you can naturally clasp your hands in front of you and have your hand virtually ON the gun.
With a strong side, there's no way to get your hand close to the gun without making it obvious since that's a very unnatural position to have your hand.

You can draw the gun easily when seated, especially in a car.
The strong side may not be accessible at all if the gun is on the same side as the car door and since you're pressing close to the door, you can't easily get your arm back to get the gun.
As some police have found out, if you're sitting a little too close to the door with a strong side, and you slam the door, it can hit the gun and break a rib.

Cross draw, the gun is quickly accessible to either hand.
Strong side, especially in an IWB, you may not be able to reach the gun at all with the other hand.

One cross draw technique is to rotate your upper body away from the target as you draw the gun. As soon as the gun clears, it's pointing at the target. This also allows a close retention since the gun is being held away from any grab attempt, and close to your side.
If you also press the gun HAND, (not the gun) against your side just below the ribs, you can brace the gun for better control and make it even harder to grab.
Rotating the upper body also prevents sweeping the target.
While it's not really something that's that usable, one older gun expert taught to quickly rotate the upper body TOWARD the target, grab the gun, then rotate the body away from the target. This is sort of like doing the old "twist" dance.
This basically rotated the holster away from the gun as you pulled it the other way.

The down sides to the cross draw are a lack of lots of holsters to choose from, the gun is more easily grabbed, and it's harder to both position the gun for a fast draw AND conceal it well.

On the grabbing issue, Jeff Cooper wrote about a California narcotics detective who carried a .45 in the appendix carry position.
He always kept his hands clasped together in front of him in a hippie-like non threatening manner.
This covered the gun from grabs, and also had his hands close to the gun.
This also works well cross draw. I once knew a cop who simply kept his thumb hooked in his belt cowboy-style. This also covered the gun and left his hand ready to open his coat.

So, the cross-draw holster has a lot to offer if you can work around the weaknesses.
Link Posted: 8/31/2010 4:38:49 PM EDT
Meet in the middle and carry appendix IWB.
Link Posted: 8/31/2010 7:23:16 PM EDT
I say carry KGB style strong side and learn not to swing your arm keeping your hand on your handgun. Then you will look like Putin when he walks and all ex KGB agents.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 4:41:58 AM EDT
One thing that should probably be mentioned. Body type can play a significant part. I have a relatively short torso, with long arms. With a holster on a waist belt, drawing from a strong side holster is much more difficult than drawing from a cross draw holster.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 9:27:03 AM EDT

I really like cross-draw however, I don't think it conceals as well as strong side 4-5 o'clock carry. I have found it is faster than strong side but with practice you can draw pretty quick from strong side carry.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 11:44:14 AM EDT
I don't think it's a good idea for two reasons:

1. It is relatively easy for an opponent to block your draw in close quarters. Contrast this with appendix carry which has you draw from the holster to a #2/retention position.
2. If you are shooting on a firing line, you are sweeping everyone to that side when you draw. Most training courses won't allow cross draw.

That said, some people use it with success, such as Lenny Magill.

Jay
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 6:46:11 PM EDT
Ok, don't hammer me too hard for this, but someone posted a Miami Vice video of a quick cross-draw. This actor was supposed to be a real-life competitive shooter...don't know his name. Anyway, think it's actual speed or enhanced a little?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=137081406828493148#
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 6:51:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By timothy585:
Ok, don't hammer me too hard for this, but someone posted a Miami Vice video of a quick cross-draw. This actor was supposed to be a real-life competitive shooter...don't know his name. Anyway, think it's actual speed or enhanced a little?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=137081406828493148#

IIRC that's played at normal speed.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 7:26:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2010 7:44:35 PM EDT by decoy]
Originally Posted By timothy585:
Ok, don't hammer me too hard for this, but someone posted a Miami Vice video of a quick cross-draw. This actor was supposed to be a real-life competitive shooter...don't know his name. Anyway, think it's actual speed or enhanced a little?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=137081406828493148#


Look here, Pact.

Link Posted: 9/1/2010 7:39:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BushBoar:

Originally Posted By timothy585:
Ok, don't hammer me too hard for this, but someone posted a Miami Vice video of a quick cross-draw. This actor was supposed to be a real-life competitive shooter...don't know his name. Anyway, think it's actual speed or enhanced a little?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=137081406828493148#

IIRC that's played at normal speed.


That's A-IWB, not cross draw.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 8:04:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ViniVidivici:
Originally Posted By BushBoar:

Originally Posted By timothy585:
Ok, don't hammer me too hard for this, but someone posted a Miami Vice video of a quick cross-draw. This actor was supposed to be a real-life competitive shooter...don't know his name. Anyway, think it's actual speed or enhanced a little?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=137081406828493148#

IIRC that's played at normal speed.


That's A-IWB, not cross draw.


Can you explain the difference to me? Appendix vs. cross-draw?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 8:17:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By timothy585:
Originally Posted By ViniVidivici:
Originally Posted By BushBoar:

Originally Posted By timothy585:
Ok, don't hammer me too hard for this, but someone posted a Miami Vice video of a quick cross-draw. This actor was supposed to be a real-life competitive shooter...don't know his name. Anyway, think it's actual speed or enhanced a little?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=137081406828493148#

IIRC that's played at normal speed.


That's A-IWB, not cross draw.


Can you explain the difference to me? Appendix vs. cross-draw?

Thanks.


Cross draw is on the support side while appendix is strong side, both are toward the front.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 8:24:44 PM EDT
That clip was awesome!
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 6:37:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LukeDuke:
That clip was awesome!


Dude was a real bad-ass! I loved it when he "pushed" the shotgun forward with each shot...a TRUE professional
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 6:47:33 AM EDT
I had to check it was the clip I was thinking of the guy is a grand master ISPC shooter and yes that clip was in normal speed they did not do anything to speed it up I think there are more clips of him shooting out there
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 12:23:34 AM EDT
It's a lot quicker, yes. For the guy standing in front of you to draw from.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 1:22:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 4:37:57 PM EDT
Two words illustrate just how fast a human can draw and fire, Jerry Mickulek.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:15:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
I don't think it's a good idea for two reasons:

1. It is relatively easy for an opponent to block your draw in close quarters. Contrast this with appendix carry which has you draw from the holster to a #2/retention position.
2. If you are shooting on a firing line, you are sweeping everyone to that side when you draw. Most training courses won't allow cross draw.

That said, some people use it with success, such as Lenny Magill.

Jay



Valid points. But we could discuss the reasons that person got that close in the first regardless as to where you carry your weapon. If someone is that close and your weapon is not pulled you are going to have to move in order to make the dynamic movement of drawing a weapon, really from any weapon on body position.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:03:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By n7usn:
I had to check it was the clip I was thinking of the guy is a grand master ISPC shooter and yes that clip was in normal speed they did not do anything to speed it up I think there are more clips of him shooting out there


Also note, the added gunfire is slower than what he was shooting.

He is a grand master shooter.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:44:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:
Two words illustrate just how fast a human can draw and fire, Jerry Mickulek.


Or Bob Munden.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:07:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Skunkeye:
Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:
Two words illustrate just how fast a human can draw and fire, Jerry Mickulek.


Or Bob Munden.



Really?
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