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Page Handguns » Kahr
Posted: 10/16/2005 6:12:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 1:49:14 PM EDT by triburst1]
I don't know if I can trust one.

I want to get a concealed carry weapon for my wife and the size of the Kahr pistols is very appealing. She likes the feel of the slim grip and it would be much easier for her to conceal than a doublestack pistol. I carry a GLOCK 19 that she shoots very well so I have also considered a G26 for her. My 19 has over 27,000 rounds on it with no malfunctions and I trust it completely. IMO, GLOCKs are the toughest, most relliable pistols on the planet.

It seems like I see far to many Kahrs with some sort of functioning problem. There are several times the number of GLOCKs out there as Kahrs, but I very rarely here of a GLOCK with a problem.

This gun will not be a range toy, but her first line of defense in protecing her life. As much as I like the little guns, I just don't know if I can trust one that much. The Kahr would be very handy, but I KNOW that G26 will work...
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 12:34:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2005 12:46:06 PM EDT by dfariswheel]
Most of Kahr's reported problems are with the polymer framed guns, and especially the tiny polymer guns.

As the old saying has it, "The squeaking wheel gets the grease", and usually the only Kahr's people report on ARE the few that have problems.
Unless you specifically ask, most people never post about how WELL their Kahr works.

Kahr is very good about taking care of problems, (with a few lapses, which you also hear all about).
Kahr is one of the few gun companies with a reputation of actually giving problem gun owners NEW guns to replace one with trouble.

If you buy a STEEL framed Kahr, problems are almost unheard of.

Truth is, MOST Kahr owners absolutely love the gun and have no problems at all, especially once they get past the factory-mandated 200 round break-in period.

Bottom line is, Kahr has one of the best reputations in the business for quality and customer satisfaction.
It's starting to look like the Kahr is this generations "Gold Standard" in carry guns, and even the ultra-Conservative New York City Police authorize it for off-duty use.

One poster on another forum reports that his department has authorized the steel Kahr for use, after "Our SWAT team tried to beat one to death and failed".

No one can guarantee you will get a perfect-out-of-the-box gun from ANY maker.
I've talked to a good number of people who've had Glock problems too.

Like all things "You pays yer money, and ya takes yer chances".
Yer chances with Kahr are very high.

Like all guns, the keys to Kahr reliability are:
Break the gun in per the factory recommendation. Many people buy the gun, shoot 50 rounds through it and complain that it isn't reliable.
Their opinion is, break in is BS, and for the price it should work 100% right out of the box.

Try different brands/types of ammo to find one that's reliable. Too many people just decide to use one brand, and complain about problems with it, without trying something else.

Too many people buy the cheapest ammo they can possible find for practice, then complain that the gun's no good because it won't shoot it.
You often hear the complaint "Well, it aught to shoot ANYTHING for that price".

Practice with the gun. Small guns are "limp wrist" or grip sensitive.
I've found that the more a person shoots a good gun, the more reliable it is.

Keep the gun AND magazines CLEAN and properly lubed.

While anecdotal stories are of no real value, I have over 5000 rounds through my Kahr 9mm stainless with ZERO stoppages. This includes some horrible old 1960's Egyptian 9mm ammo that wouldn't shoot through MOST pistols.
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 1:16:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dfariswheel:

If you buy a STEEL framed Kahr, problems are almost unheard of.

While anecdotal stories are of no real value, I have over 5000 rounds through my Kahr 9mm stainless with ZERO stoppages. This includes some horrible old 1960's Egyptian 9mm ammo that wouldn't shoot through MOST pistols.



This info is somewhat reassuring, as I was looking at the all steel models anyway. For her, some extra weight in a full power small pistol would likely be a good thing.
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 1:32:51 PM EDT
It seems like most of the bad talk about Kahr is the PM model with the dual recoil spring.

I have a P9 covert and love it. The feedramp is very steep though, it feeds hollow points just fine, but chokes on the heavier stuff. For example I carry 135 grain federal tactical which feed great, however 147 grain Wichester Ranger won't feed.

I think the heavier stuff has a longer OAL.

Link Posted: 10/16/2005 1:36:53 PM EDT
I have a PM9 and a P9, and am about to buy a TP9.

I did have a minor problem with the latter, but the factory service was excellent.

As Dfariswheel said, put a couple hundred rounds through it, and then I can't imagine any problems that the company would be unwilling to take care of. They are excellent pistols.
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 2:49:31 PM EDT
I have 2 K9s, aMK9 and a p40 covert. They are all good and reliable, However, both of the K9's will choke on Golden Saber 124 gr hollow points. They have consistently had the 2nd round in the mag nosedive into the feedramp.

Kahr simply stated that not all ammo will feed reliably in all weapons. The MK9 did not have the problem with the 124 gr ammo

Both K9's have been near perfect with all 115 gr ammo.

Steve
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 9:32:52 PM EDT
I own a Glock 19, 23, 22, and 35 and my Kahr is a better gun then the Golcks. All my Glocks jam on me quiet often and the Kahr is extreemly reliable! My MK9 eats anything I feed it. It has jamed one time but I think it was the bullet. I'm selling all my Glocks because I cant get any of them to run a full clip with having a problem. What is the chance of me buying 4 lemons?
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 10:32:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
What is the chance of me buying 4 lemons?



I realize this is the Kahr forum, but I would say the chance is pretty unlikely. Have you ever fired a Glock that didn't jam on you?

You may well have more of a problem with your grip than with your Glocks. Especially seeing as how your handle has Sig in it you may just have problems adjusting to the Glocks. That's not intended to be any kind of a slam or anything I am just saying 4 "lemons" seems unlikely. If you can't get this squared away your right to get rid of them.

If you were in Indy I would buy your G19.
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 10:44:08 PM EDT
Factory service is amazing. It has to be. 200 round break in per manual and my original (PM 9)still jammed. I can't bring myself to shoot/burn another 200 with the replacement. It sits in my safe.

Stick with SIG, HK and Glock if you must have an auto. If you want small, reliable, concealable and incredibly light (scandium) get an S&W .357/.38. I have never had a S&W revolver jam and have carried them for years. You can load it with the 135 grain, Speer Gold Dot +P snub load in .38 (or the 125 grain Federal .357 if you carry it).

Arming a novice (?) with a Kahr auto is a mistake for my 2 cents.

Link Posted: 10/16/2005 10:52:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROptics:
I can't bring myself to shoot/burn another 200 with the replacement. It sits in my safe.



C'mon it'll be fun. 200 rounds isn't that many.

PS. Why would arming a novice with Kahr be a mistake?
Link Posted: 10/17/2005 3:21:29 AM EDT
I have never heard of ANY semi-auto that was 100% reliable. Glock and Kahr both have their warts.
I have owned several Glocks (17L, 23, and 18) and they were good guns that were reliable AFTER they were broken in, just like any other out of the box semi-auto.

I own 2 Kahrs at present, a K9 and an MK9. Both are extreemly reliable guns, with zero failures so far.

I have about 5000+ rounds through the K9 and just over 200 in the MK9.

As far as arming a novice with one, it would no different that using a revolver: It's all about TRAINING.

I have no qualms about carrying a Kahr and none about recommending one.
Link Posted: 10/17/2005 4:10:53 AM EDT
I have a PM9 that hasn't skipped a beat from the first mag i put through it. I trust it with my life. My winter ccw is a G27 with a 13 round mag.
Link Posted: 10/17/2005 11:18:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MikeG23:

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
What is the chance of me buying 4 lemons?



I realize this is the Kahr forum, but I would say the chance is pretty unlikely. Have you ever fired a Glock that didn't jam on you?

You may well have more of a problem with your grip than with your Glocks. Especially seeing as how your handle has Sig in it you may just have problems adjusting to the Glocks. That's not intended to be any kind of a slam or anything I am just saying 4 "lemons" seems unlikely. If you can't get this squared away your right to get rid of them.

If you were in Indy I would buy your G19.



No Prob dude! most of the time my 23's slide does not lock back on the last round and I'm very careful to make sure my thumb is not touching the slide release. My 22 seems to catch the ejecting brass and jams the slide. I'm not limp wristing it eather. If I try to limp it to see what happens wit won't jam! My 35 is the absolute worst gun I have ever bought. You name the kind of jam, it has them every mag. My 19 is acctually pretty decent and runs most of the time.

I bought them all pretty much with in a month of each other after I got a craving to try out Glocks. I just don't know what to think. I sent in my 23 to see if Golck could fix it and they replaced the mag catch but it still does on just about every last round. There are so many good guns to be had I'm just going to cut my losses and move on to another brand.
Link Posted: 10/18/2005 6:34:34 AM EDT
I had an extremely early serial number K9, so take this with a grain of salt. The pistol was simply terrible. The problems included: jamming. Lots and often. Broken firing pin (striker?) seizing the pistol up. The extractor leaving with a casing, never to be found. The ejector BROKE. My girlfriend, now my wife, did not have the hand strength to operate the slide reliably. The sights shifted in their dovetails. I sent the damn pistol back to Kahr three times and then I dumped it. To add insult upon injury Kahr told me (oh JOY) they now offered a "lifetime" warranty on their pistols when I called them at one point about a problem. Lifetimes can be short if you have a pistol that jams...

If I inserted a loaded magazine and racked the slide the first round failed to feed properly, jamming the pistol. The only way to load the pistol reliably for the first round was to open the slide, insert a loaded magazine, and drop the slide using the slide release. I was not impressed with the quality of the magazines. They liked to shed the top round out if they were left loaded.

That said, I liked the trigger pull, it was accurate and it had a light recoil sensation. When it worked properly, which wasn't often.

NOW, here I am looking at Kahr pistols close to 10 years (!) later. I just can't seem to bring myself to buy another. I really like the idea of the P9 in particular, but my bad experience keeps me from buying. Ah well. I don't really hold it against Kahr, as I owned one of the first 70 pistols they made, but it isn't easy to regain confidence.

If you read the !!number of different posts on the various boards it is enough to convince me that Kahr pistols may as well come with an RMA tag in the box! How many people who own Kahr pistols know the names of the customer service reps at Kahr? That is NOT a good sign in my book.

Your mileage may vary, and frankly I hope it does. I too have a Glock 19 and damn it, while it isn't quite "Perfektion" it does work reliably.

Definately see if she can rack the slide before you buy it, though.
Link Posted: 10/18/2005 6:47:32 AM EDT
Edit to post above. The ejector didn't break. It fell out when I disassembled the pistol. It was loose in the frame. Ah, lovely memories. OH, and I forgot the propensity of the pistol to rust. It rusted, in the words of others on this board, like a Chinese Tanker at LOW TIDE.
Link Posted: 10/18/2005 8:42:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cheesebeast:
I had an extremely early serial number K9, so take this with a grain of salt. The pistol was simply terrible. The problems included: jamming. Lots and often. Broken firing pin (striker?) seizing the pistol up. The extractor leaving with a casing, never to be found. The ejector BROKE. My girlfriend, now my wife, did not have the hand strength to operate the slide reliably. The sights shifted in their dovetails. I sent the damn pistol back to Kahr three times and then I dumped it. To add insult upon injury Kahr told me (oh JOY) they now offered a "lifetime" warranty on their pistols when I called them at one point about a problem.



Not to be an aplogist for Kahr but i imagine if you take the first item off of ANY production line you will have problem.


Lifetimes can be short if you have a pistol that jams....


Great quote! I hope you don't mind if i use it a time or 2.


If I inserted a loaded magazine and racked the slide the first round failed to feed properly, jamming the pistol. The only way to load the pistol reliably for the first round was to open the slide, insert a loaded magazine, and drop the slide using the slide release. I was not impressed with the quality of the magazines. They liked to shed the top round out if they were left loaded.


My PM9 sometimes needs me to rack the slide a couple of times to hammer the round on up the pipe. I can't say that i'm happy about that however it runs like a top, even with only cleaning it every couple of hundred rounds or so and i can see myself having to speed load it ( although of course i do practise it). My mags will often spit out the top round if i leave them rattling around in my pocket which tells me i simply need to put them where they belong in a carrier on my weak side.


...

Definately see if she can rack the slide before you buy it, though.





yeah i'll agree there. I'll also point out that this is the fourth CCW weapon that i've owned: a NAA Guardian which would only malf for me, a Kel Tec P3AT, and a Glock 27 which ned the chamber and ramp polished to make it reliable. The PM9 is the only gun that has run perfect for me. However, whenever you do purchase a small CCW piece you should do so with the full knowledge that it may just not work for you, putting a powerful round ina small pistol often results in problems.
Link Posted: 10/18/2005 8:54:01 AM EDT
I have carried the regular steel Kahr K9 for 5 years or so. I've never had a problem and it has always functioned perfectly. It's a very nice carry piece.
Link Posted: 10/18/2005 9:03:56 AM EDT
I am glad your Kahr has worked reliably for you- I don't enjoy goring anyone's favorite ox.

The trouble for me is -considering my previous bad experience- is Kahr remains the only viable game in town for a 9mm of that size. The Keltec's trigger kept me from buying one of those, the Rohrbaugh gets mixed reviews and is too expensive for me to gamble on...

Right now I use a Sig 239 and a Glock 19 for carry pistols, and occasionally carry a Sig 232, but I am not enamored with the .380 round. On the plus side the 232 is reliable and I am fond of the little thing.

Ah well, maybe I will give it another few years and try a Kahr again.

Good luck,
Cheese
Link Posted: 10/18/2005 10:51:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2005 10:54:31 AM EDT by dfariswheel]
Kahr, especially in their early days, seemed to run in a pattern:
They'd introduce a new model, it'd have problems in actual use, they'd fix the problem guns, iron out the defects in succeeding production, and the guns were then great.

Kahr seems to have hit more lasting problems with the polymer guns, especially the tiny polymer guns.

By all info I can get, the all steel guns, especially the "K" series "full size" Kahr's are as close to 100% as any gun maker in the world gets, followed closely by the all steel "MK" series guns.

Virtually ALL the complaints I now hear are on the smaller polymer guns.

These days you have a chance of getting a problem or an out and out lemon from ANY gun company, but your chances are lower and the likelihood of getting an effective factory "fix" are higher with the top-quality companies.

Kahr is certainly a top-quality maker.
Link Posted: 10/19/2005 10:42:33 AM EDT
Gotta agree with dfariswheel. The all steel Kahr's that I own are absolutely reliable. The weight difference beteween the MK9 and the PM9, to me, are negligible when carried in a belt holster. Every polymer framed gun that has been introduced, from the first Glocks to current iterations from other makers have had reliability problems, mostly from manufacturing flaws and poor quality control in removing flash and the like.

If you like the mini-Kahr, I'd say buy the all steel MK9 and be happy.
Link Posted: 10/19/2005 6:47:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
I don't know if I can trust one.



I’ve always been a 1911 fan and I still am. They’re the greatest one-handed battle implement I’ve ever seen except for Captain Kirk’s phaser. I have a couple that see thousands of rounds a year.

I don’t think, even with computer technology, anyone could design a firearm more uncomfortable to live with. I’ve tried ‘em in every holster you can imagine and I’d rather leave the darn thing at home and carry a knife! Even the little Officers I had was brutal to carry. That hammer and grip safety… all day long….. I’ve had a CCW for years, in fact I took the NRA instructor class to become an instructor about a year after I got it. I was carrying maybe 5% of the time.

So, I’m in a local gunshop… he has a two-tone, new MK9 for $500. Problem is it only has one magazine and he doesn’t have any in stock but he can get ‘em… yada, yada… You guys all know what they look like, you can practically shove one in the mag well of a 1911! I’d been reading about these things for years and loved the look of ‘em but I’m not really a 9mm guy… I probably wouldn’t carry that one either… Then I noticed he had an ammo sale going on, in particular, he had a deal on Speer Frangible 100 grain ammo in 250 round boxes. I couldn’t stand it any longer. I grabbed two boxes and started reaching for my card. It was a beautiful day, I had everything I needed in the truck, I intended to wring this little booger out in one afternoon and if it wasn’t making me happy, I’d dump it at the next gun show or trade it off before it even cooled down.

Almost 4 hours later this little thing was still blazing, in fact, it might even have been glowing a little. It hadn’t choked on a single round and I was half way into my second box of 250. My hand was vibrating even though I wore a glove for most of it. I don’t care what kind of fancy name you got on your 1911, I’ll bet you a quarter you can’t go 350 rounds without a hick-up. I never stopped to clean this thing either, I shot it right out of the box. To be honest, I already thought I knew who I’d sell it to and didn’t care what I did to it.

I still got it. It’s been almost two years now.

I wear it 60% of the time, locally and most of the time when on the road or in “the city”.

There are still a couple rounds in the bottom of that second 250 round box. I’ve shot, maybe 100 different Hydra Shoks through it to chrono them and see if it liked anything more or less. There have been just short of 8 boxes of Winchester White Box 115 FMJ (100) and I’m on my 2nd box of 125 grain RNFP cast bullets (500).

By my math, correct me if I’m wrong, that makes just a tad shy of 2,000 rounds through this gun and I’m still waiting for it to jamb! The action is so short and fast, I don’t think you can intentionally limp wrist it into a jamb, matter of fact, I’ve tried it and can’t get it to jamb. For an ‘ole 1911 shooter, this is almost scary.

It’s the simplest, sweetest shooting thing I’ve ever carried. The sights are great and the trigger is something even us spoiled 1911 shooters can adapt to. I love this thing and you wanna know what, everybody who shots it loves it too. Recoil is nothing to concern yourself about, it’s very manageable. A perfect pistol for the ladies. No safeties, just grab it and shoot it like a revolver.

It’s still a 9mm but instead of holding that against it, I’ve convinced myself that just having it in a time of need is so much better than knowing it’s safe and sound behind a locked steel door at home.
Link Posted: 10/19/2005 7:24:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2005 7:25:12 PM EDT by JoelK]
With great trepidation I bought a PM40. So far (over 800 rounds) it had one failure to feed at round #76. A light push on the rear of the slide and it went into battery and fired fine. It has been flawless since I love this little gun!
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 8:04:06 AM EDT
I had a PM9 that I recently upgraded to a PM40. Both pistols have worked perfectly. I like the PM40 even better than the 9. Best. Watch-Six
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 7:18:17 AM EDT
I own a PM9, my wife owns a P9 (when she isn't carrying my PM9). Some of the things I have noticed about owning the both Kahr pistols:

During the break-in 200 round shoot, both pistols failed to go into battery multiple times. Neither pistol has ever failed that way since they were broken in.

Both pistols are picky eaters. Both pistols are 100% jam free on ball ammo. Both pistols intermittently fail with (Federal, Remington, Corbon) JHPs. Both pistols are currently loaded with Corbon Powerball, which they have never failed to feed.

I don't own, and will not own any pistol that isn't 100% reliable. I understand that anything mechanical can break, but I would never carry any firearm that fails to function while I am practicing or competing.

I would buy another Kahr PM9, and I may be doing so so I can carry mine more, as the Walther P99 is hard to fit in my pocket. BSW


Link Posted: 10/26/2005 6:30:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JoelK:
With great trepidation I bought a PM40. So far (over 800 rounds) it had one failure to feed at round #76. A light push on the rear of the slide and it went into battery and fired fine. It has been flawless since I love this little gun!




Originally Posted By Watch-six:
I had a PM9 that I recently upgraded to a PM40. Both pistols have worked perfectly. I like the PM40 even better than the 9. Best. Watch-Six



Man is this GOOD NEWS!

I just forewent a Daewoo DR200 rifle for a PM40. I was begining to think I made a mistake.

triburst1: I can tell you that the Glock 26 is very reliable, I have one and it's never given me a problem. But it is heavy and wide and I don't care to use it for CCW, great gun though.

If you're looking for a good CCW for your wife take a look at the Para WartHog it's a Mini 1911 with a 10rd mag. My wife likes the 45ACP because it has slower recoil + if you connect with a 45 the Bad Guy goes down no matter how coked up they are

I've heard stories, like most of us, that 9mm will take multiple shots to put a determined attacker down. From talking to local police friend he states that everyone they shot with a 40S&W drops on the first shot. So that combined with the small size of the PM40 led me to go with that. On an up note the one that I'm getting was a Kahr factory test pistol so hopefully the bugs will be worked out of it, if not it's got a warranty and if its really FURARED they will replace it with a new pistol.
Link Posted: 10/26/2005 2:11:43 PM EDT
I hate to bite at this but i can't ignore it.

Statements like "shoot them with a insert your favorite caliber here and they will stay down are indicative of a TOTAL lack of knowledge about real world shooting and the performance of pistols caliber cartridges.

It's all well and fine to recommend to someone that they carry the largest cartridge they can shoot well, just don't fill their head with this hollywood BS, it might get them killed. Instead i suggest that they take a class from a real deal instructor to learn how to actually fight with their handgun.

I Please don't bombard me with anecdotal stories, if i ever get attacked by an anecdote i'll just shoot him with a .22 LR
Link Posted: 10/27/2005 5:38:24 AM EDT
I didn't mean to come off like using a hand cannon is better than X...Y...or Z. Certainly a well-placed shot with a smaller caliber is better than a miss with a larger one.

As a matter of physics a heavier bullet distributes more force when it come to a sudden stop than that of a lighter configuration. In target practice where bowling pins are the target a 9mm or 380 has a more difficult time knocking the target down than a 40S&W or 45ACP.

That being said whatever is the most accurate caliber to shoot for a particular individual is probably the best for CCW. Unlike horse shoes close is not good enough when disabling an attacker.
Link Posted: 10/27/2005 6:42:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By curt:
I hate to bite at this but i can't ignore it.

Statements like "shoot them with a insert your favorite caliber here and they will stay down are indicative of a TOTAL lack of knowledge about real world shooting and the performance of pistols caliber cartridges.

It's all well and fine to recommend to someone that they carry the largest cartridge they can shoot well, just don't fill their head with this hollywood BS, it might get them killed. Instead i suggest that they take a class from a real deal instructor to learn how to actually fight with their handgun.

I Please don't bombard me with anecdotal stories, if i ever get attacked by an anecdote i'll just shoot him with a .22 LR



Gotta agree with ya, Curt and you beat me to the punch with the response.
If we were limited to FMJ or lead bullets only, then the .45 ACP would be near the top of the heap, but with today's premium bullets, virtually ANY caliber can be a one-shot stopper and there is evidence to prove it.
More important for a concealed carrier is the ability to reliably hit a human size target in a vital area, under stress. This means practice, practice, practice and good training from more than just the average safety instructor or basic marksmanship instructor.
Depending on circumstances, I will carry a .32 ACP, a MK9, a CZ75B .40 S&W or a K9 and not feel a bit undergunned or worry about the bad guy falling down.
Besides, as Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch fame sez- a handgun is used to fight to get to your rifle!
Link Posted: 10/27/2005 11:49:03 PM EDT
For what it's worth, I have two Kahrs, one is a PM9, and the other is a K40. Both have worked without a flaw.
Now on the one shot stop bit, well I too have a cop buddy who was telling me about the guy he shot in the side of his head, with a 40S&W, and then had to chase him down the street, and it took two of them to take him down.
Link Posted: 10/28/2005 9:33:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Daubs:
Certainly a well-placed shot with a smaller caliber is better than a miss with a larger one.



Daubs, you’re exactly right. The only thing I’d add to this is that actually having a pistol when you need it is equally, if not more important. I only know one guy who carries his 1911 all the time. He’s 6’4” and over 15 years, I believe his body has just formed around it.

I don’t think there is any reason for triburst1 to be concerned about a Kahr functioning in a time of need. In a butt-clenching situation, I think it’s the best choice out there; otherwise I’d be carrying something else. It’s as simple as a revolver and much nicer to carry.

The issue of concealed carry has no relationship to what you like to shoot at matches or while plinking. The primary issue is – will you carry it or leave it home?
Link Posted: 10/28/2005 10:39:27 AM EDT
A freind of mine bought a PM9, he shot it and it worked. I was impressed enough to get one for myself. After more than 1K rounds through it it has never failed in any way. Ammo was a variety of ball and department issue win Ranger 115 +p+. Several other guys on my department have picked them up since then (PM9's and MK40's)and they all report flawless function.

You pay your money and make your own choices. My experience with the PM9 has been outstanding. It is truly tiny, and so light I forget I have in on.

If you carry mags loose in your pocked they will shed rounds.

It's the gun I carry when I don't feel like carrying a gun.
Link Posted: 10/28/2005 12:24:20 PM EDT
I've got about 800 rounds through my PM9 without a FTF or FTE. The gun is great and is my daily carry piece. Small and compact with a decent amount of firepower. My other two carry guns are an H&K Compact and Glock 22. All are reliable.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 9:21:52 AM EDT
I have never seen so many clinch their ass as tight as a straight man in a queer bar for mentioning caliber A will do more damage than caliber B.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 10:32:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Daubs:
... if you connect with a 45 the Bad Guy goes down no matter how coked up they are

... From talking to local police friend he states that everyone they shot with a 40S&W drops on the first shot....




Not disparaging your sources, but statements like those are utterly wrong. Perhaps do a Google search and read the real world data Evan Marshal has collected.

I have a personal acquaintance who shot someone four times above the diaphram with .40 Speer Gold Dots. He thought he was missing because the guy didn't react and kept walking towards him. (He had alcohol in his system, but no drugs.)

All the practical handgun calibers - 9mm, .357, .40, .45 - are very similar in performance with good modern ammunition. They all have about the same percentage of one-shot stops, and of spectacular failures to stop. The baffling emotional faith some have in .45's is misplaced.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 4:54:06 PM EDT
I have a k40 that I've carried off duty almost every day for three years. I've fired several thousand rounds through it and except for the initial break in period(first two hundred rounds) I have only had one malfunction.
Link Posted: 11/2/2005 8:00:24 AM EDT

by Rodent:
.... statements like those are utterly wrong.



Man this is turning into a match.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 10:19:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By Daubs:
... if you connect with a 45 the Bad Guy goes down no matter how coked up they are

... From talking to local police friend he states that everyone they shot with a 40S&W drops on the first shot....




Not disparaging your sources, but statements like those are utterly wrong. Perhaps do a Google search and read the real world data Evan Marshal has collected.

I have a personal acquaintance who shot someone four times above the diaphram with .40 Speer Gold Dots. He thought he was missing because the guy didn't react and kept walking towards him. (He had alcohol in his system, but no drugs.)

All the practical handgun calibers - 9mm, .357, .40, .45 - are very similar in performance with good modern ammunition. They all have about the same percentage of one-shot stops, and of spectacular failures to stop. The baffling emotional faith some have in .45's is misplaced.



I'll chime in here. Before work moved me to the land of Lincoln and gun control my primary carry pieces were (in order) a .357 Magnum, a 10mm Automatic, and a .45 Automatic. The wife and I are both getting Florida non-resident CCWs as we spend some time there every year. Her gun of choice is a Kahr K9, and I have complete confidence that it will do the job if needed. A solid COM hit with a .32acp is better than a grazing wound with a .45.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 10:28:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 10:28:54 PM EDT by twonami]
No complaints about my K40. Break-in period had no malfunctions and approx 1,500 more rounds and still working fine and glitch free.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:41:29 AM EDT
I have 2 steel frame Kahrs and regularly carry them with full confidence. My K9 Elite has never had any issues of any type and my E9 had 1 failure to lock open on the last shot on magazine number 2 through the gun. After that 100%. Both have over 1000rds through (minimum). I have two friends with PM9s and neither has had any trouble with those either.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:43:56 PM EDT
I am thinking of trading my S&W M37 in on a PM9. I want something as small and as light as possible to replace my P-32 as an ankle gun in warm weather and use for coat pocket carry when it's cold.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:56:00 PM EDT
K9 stainless here , It's been flawless through a couple
of thousand rounds . With most of that being Speer 124gr +P JHP .
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:14:59 PM EDT
I have had a P9 about two years now. I didn't shoot it as much as I should have during the first year, but I am trying to make up for it now. There are many things to like about this gun. It's trigger pull is somewhat long, but very smooth. It is quite accurate for a gun of it's size.

Have there been some problems? A few. Keep in mind that Kahr makes a point of being sure to shooting at least 200 rounds through the gun before considering it broken in. I agree with that. I think I'm getting pretty close to 500 rounds, and the gun *is* getting more reliable. I was experiencing about 2-3% failures of one kind or another. The most serious is failure to eject the spent case. Instead, it remains captive in the extractor, and then jams into the top of the barrel. It doesn't always clear easily. That's a problem with a defensive gun.

The last time out, though, I shot at least 100 rounds and had no problems. I intend to keep going to the range, shooting at least 100 rounds each time. I'm hoping the trend to greater reliability continues. I have, though, been shooting 115 gr FMJ. If I get excellent reliability out of those, I'll run a couple of hundred hollow points through it to make sure those work as well.

Although I *want* to, and do, like this gun, I'm not married to it. If I don't start to get near 100% reliability soon, I won't hesitate to trade for something else. I love Glocks, so a G26 is a possible choice. Problem is, I really like my Kahr's slim profile for IWB carry, etc. Most of the minis that started out as full sized models, have this problem of being chunky. Sigh. I really want that Kahr to work out.

K
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 11:32:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By Daubs:
... if you connect with a 45 the Bad Guy goes down no matter how coked up they are

... From talking to local police friend he states that everyone they shot with a 40S&W drops on the first shot....


Not disparaging your sources, but statements like those are utterly wrong. Perhaps do a Google search and read the real world data Evan Marshal has collected.


Marshall's data has been pretty well discredited as statistically meaningless as well. Look up Fackler and wound ballistics for scientifically valid studies.

If you go with the accepted standard of 12-16" of penetration in calibrated gelatin and reliable expansion through clothing, then you have several loads in all three calibers (9mm, .40, .45) that perform well. And lots of loads in all three that don't. I'd rather have a "good" 9mm that expands to .45" and crushes tissue with a flat point and sharp edges than a "bad" .45 that doesn't expand and pushes tissue out of the way with the round edges.


The baffling emotional faith some have in .45's is misplaced.
And I suspect can be blamed on the writings of Jeff Cooper.


Back to the Kahr topic...

I have an older E-9 (with stainless frame and black-magic-marker slide, rather than the current silver over black version). I bought it used at a gun show, so I don't know how many rounds it had through it before I got it. I've put I'd guess 1-2k through it myself. I've had a few jams, but they were either ammo or magazine related. The only problem I've had was that the slide stop broke. Called Kahr the next day and they sent out a new one no questions asked. I carry it daily and trust it.

That said, I do have some complaints and reservations. Accuracy is not particularly good. At 50ft slow-fire my other guns (S&W revolvers and a MkII) and Dad's (1911 & Ruger SA revolvers) will all hold the black on an NRA 50ft target. I think that's about 3.5". The Kahr will barely keep a group inside the white rings, or about 7". That's slow careful fire. I blame that partly on the trigger. I'm used to long DA pulls from the revolver so that's not a problem, but this one "catches" and the end. But only on some shots. Sometimes it pulls through smoothly and sometimes it catches. If I speed up a little and shoot as fast as I can maintain good sight pictures the groups don't really get any bigger. I think that's because when I'm going faster I pull through the catch more smoothly. I've decided that accuracy is good enough for its intended use, but I wouldn't feel confident making a head shot much past 15yds and more like 10yds near a hostage.

My main complaint is with the magazines. The top round moves forward and pops out way too easily. I carry in a tuckable IWB and keep the spare in my back pocket. On more than one occasion I've heard the top round pop out or found it loose in the pocket later. Keeping it in a mag carrier doesn't necessarily solve the problem either. I have a Fobus mag carrier I use for IPSC and classes and if you push the magazine in a couple times to make sure it's seated all the way in the carrier (it's really for 1911 mags so the fit is a little loose on the Kahr mags) when you go to pull the mag back out the top round is halfway out of the magazine and you can't insert it. Popping the top round off doesn't solve the problem because when it pops out the next round usually slides forward and re-creates the problem. The top round will slide forward in the gun too, sometimes keeping a partial mag from dropping free. Both my factory 7-round and the 8-round and 10-round ProMag mags have the same problem. I've figured out how to kinda make the rims catch on the top two rounds of the 10-round I carry in the pocket to keep the top one pointing lower and that has helped, and I check it often. (And I don't feel so bad if I lose top one from a 10, but losing 1 or 2 off of a 7 worries me.)

The last complaint is a minor one. It likes to eject the last round of the magazine into my forehead. As a revolver shooter I got kind of a limp-wrist habit and if I concentrate on keeping a firmer grip it'll usually skim over my head, but if I forget I get hit. I think the case is hitting the follower, and the factory mags may not have as much of a problem as the ProMags because of the way the follower is shaped, but I've not tried to compare them.

Everybody I've talked to that has a Kahr indicates that my trigger is an anomoly and I've considered trading up to a K-9 or P-9. But the magazine thing bothers me enough I can never quite come around to doing that. I've been sort of looking for something else, but haven't found anything else in the same size class that I've liked enough to switch. I've shot a buddie's Kel-Tec 9mm and it was unpleasant, even compared to a .40 Kahr. Trigger sucked on it too. The Glock 26 is fatter than I'd like since I carry IWB and the tuckable adds a little to the holster thickness. What else is there that's as thin and small as the Kahrs?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 3:57:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 3:07:58 PM EDT by Chopperman1860]
I have a PM9 and the gun works awesome! Never had a problem yet.

From the first mag to now with about 1000 rounds. did not miss a beat.

Great little piece to carry.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:27:12 PM EDT
Some of the PM9's had feed problems, which the factory issued a recall to polish the feed ramp on the barrel. Most of the problems with Kahr's are with the PM40's, it seems the combo of the dual recoil spring setup, polymer frame and the 40S&W cartridge just didn't jell.

I have read one complaint about the P9's /Coverts over on the Glocktalk Kahr board.

You do need to break them in by firing 200 rounds. Personally I shoot that many just to figure out the most accurate round out of my personal guns.

I believe the owner's manual specifically states to use the slide release to feed the first round off a magazine, not to manually rack it as that will cause failures to feed.

The only semi auto I ever shot that was perfectly reliable was a Ruger P89. But it was as big and heavy as a tank with a funky trigger.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:38:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ag_Bullet:
I believe the owner's manual specifically states to use the slide release to feed the first round off a magazine, not to manually rack it as that will cause failures to feed.


Which is counter to the way most schools like Gunsite teach you to do it. They say you should pull it back and release, not use the slide stop, because using the stop as a release can cause it to not feed because it isn't coming forward from full back, and because it can wear the stop so it won't catch. Pulling back and letting go should not cause a problem as it lets the slide close just like it would from a fired shot.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:27:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 12:33:33 PM EDT by VBC]
As far as the Kahr PM9, you only want to use the slide release to load chamber a round, like said.

If you sling shot the slide, you "ride" it forward just a miniscule fraction of an inch and that's enough to make the nose of the bullet hang up on the feed ramp on the Kahr. There is no "play" when the slide is locked back so you can't pull it back further and only releasing the slide lever will utilize the full stroke of the slide to slam the round up the feed ramp.

If you do try to sling shot the slide and it gets hung up, pushing forward firmly on the slide will usually make it slam shut. Otherwise you have to clear it and start over with the slide release.

So, you HAVE to carry it with a round in the chamber, because it will get hung up if you try to load a round by hand when you need it. Unless you drop the mag, lock the slide back, insert the mag, then release the slide lever.

Although, as you keep shooting the PM9 and it gets broke-in, it seems to sling shot better. But still hangs a little.

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:26:10 PM EDT
I checked out some of the P-series Kahrs today. If I buy a Kahr, I have definately decided on the PM9. The P9 is as tall as my GLOCK 19, and thus is too large for my purposes want the gun. As I stated previously, this will be carried in an ankle holster most of the time. It will also be carried in a coat pocket in very cold weather when my G19 is buttoned up under my jacket and shirt. I also hope this pistol will serve to ease my wife into carrying a handgun.

Of the five places I checked, only two had any Kahr pistols in stock. The place where I usually shop only had the P9 in stock, new for $429, which I thought was a pretty good price. I also checked out Gander Mountain, which had a PM9, but it was priced at $629. No way in hell I'm paying that much for it.

I guess I will keep looking around for a better deal on the PM9.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:18:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 1:23:14 PM EDT by VBC]
Yeah, that's high. I bought my new in box PM9 for $499 list price at the local shop.

I was there and saw a guy buying the one he had for a while, so once he got in the next one I swiped it up before it sat in display and got futzed with a lot.

If you find the grip has a little less meat than you're comfortable with, slipping on a Hogue Handall, Jr. (about $9) makes ALL the difference in the world for me and IMO should have came with the gun. You have to trim the Hogue, Jr. a little in the front to keep it from hanging on the mag, but that's easy with an X-acto knife or razor blade. Otherwise it's a perfect fit.

Anyway, good luck. I love my Kahr. It's really a night and day difference carrying it than nearly anything else out there with the power of 9mm or up. It'll make you want to carry it. Accuracy of the little gun blows my mind too. It takes a couple range sessions to master the gun, but after getting used to it you'll be shooting tight groups like second nature.

I find myself always forgetting I have it on me, which might be a bad thing if I don't remember I have it if I need it.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 7:34:40 AM EDT
I love my MK40.

It did have it's growing pains when new. (A trip back when the 180s would bump the slide stop and lock on a loaded magazine)

I put several hundred rounds of Fed 180 ball ammo through it and tried some golden sabres, some speer gold dots, and some federal hydrashoks. I ended up settling on speer gold dots, an excellent bullet and better reliability in this particular gun for me.

It didn't like anything in the 180 grain range. It would hang up occasionally on the feed ramp. It will not jam on the lighter bullets. I prefer to use the heaviest bullet for a caliber but don't in this for the better reliability and because it's one small gun. The little gun sure has some snap with heavy bullets.
The accuracy was excellent, the trigger was excellent and the sights are very good.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:49:39 PM EDT
I picked up a LNIB PM9 yesterday.









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