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Posted: 2/5/2006 9:58:33 AM EDT
Call me a wuss, but what if a person finds the recoil of full power .357 magnum rounds too harsh? Or what if the gun in question is a bit light for a steady diet of magnums (and the shooter wants to train with his carry ammo)?

Specifically, I just bought a 3" Model 65 Smith. When I had one of these before I typically shot +P .38s. With the short barrel, relatively light K frame and the round butt grip the magums just seemed too much.

Is there a recommended .38 +P round? In the past I favored the .38+p 158 grain SWCHP but these seem hard to find these days. I guess they've fallen out of favor.

Is there such a thing as reduced recoil .357 magnum rounds?

In short, if you don't want to use full house .357 magnums what's a good choice in a slightly tamer round?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:46:54 AM EDT
The +P 158 LSWHP is still my favorite, and it's still available, but you may have to have a local dealer order it for you. Remington still offer it, and possibly others.

Today some people are using the +P 125 grain, jacketed Hollow point, and several ammo makers are making new ammo specifically designed for short barrel guns.
One, (Can't remember who...Federal?) is making it in a 135 grain "snubby" load that sounds good.

At one time, Remington made a "light Magnum" .357 load that was reduced below full Magnum, but was hotter then any +P.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:34:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 4:35:57 PM EDT by Stasher1]

Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
The +P 158 LSWHP is still my favorite, and it's still available, but you may have to have a local dealer order it for you. Remington still offer it, and possibly others.

Today some people are using the +P 125 grain, jacketed Hollow point, and several ammo makers are making new ammo specifically designed for short barrel guns.
One, (Can't remember who...Federal?) is making it in a 135 grain "snubby" load that sounds good.
At one time, Remington made a "light Magnum" .357 load that was reduced below full Magnum, but was hotter then any +P.



That's probably Speer "Gold Dot" you're thinking about. They make a 135 gr. "short barrel" load in .38 and .357
Everything I've read says they're the best thing since sliced bread.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:40:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 5:42:01 PM EDT by ikor]
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:50:04 PM EDT
Always train with what you're going to use if the SHTF. If you're using the .357 as that gun, then either shoot .357s or 38 +Ps, but not both.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:05:29 PM EDT
I carry Remington 125gr Golden Sabers in one of my Scandium S&W ankle guns.. It is alot more controllable out of these super light J frames... Or use .38+p but as previously suggested train with what you carry..!!!!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 1:09:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 1:21:50 PM EDT by Rangie]
Most of the .357 mag ammo from Federal, Winchester, PMC......... is watered down.

Go over to ammoman.com and grab a couple of boxes of this-

or try Armscor or Buffalo Bore .357 loads.

It'll help put things in perspective

That being said- I'd try the 145gr. Winchester Silver tip or the 180gr. Partition Gold Both are solid performers. There's going to be some recoil (It's a Magnum!) but these two loads have a little less blast and flash. The 180gr. Partition might be the best .357 Mag load avalible at this time.

If those don't work for you there's nothing wrong with the 135gr. .38spl+P Gold Dot.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:57:54 AM EDT
Winchester 110 grain .357 magnums. A lot less recoil than the full power 125 grainers, and should still be pretty damned effective.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 3:15:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 3:15:47 PM EDT by Pudwak]
Not viable as a practice round for most of us, but I carry .357 125 gr Cor-bons in my snubby. Much less recoil than the other mag loads. Comparable to .38 +p.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:53:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rangie:
Most of the .357 mag ammo from Federal, Winchester, PMC......... is watered down.

........................................hr


No doubt, those Fiocchis are loaded hot! Same for their 9mm, .38 Special, and .32 ACP ammo.

I do not like to shoot harsh .357 loads from my K-frames and put medium velocity 158gr LSWC reloads into them most of the time. Controllability, low flash and noise are more important to me and slow burning magnum powders do not perform too great out of shorter barrels.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:18:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 6:18:52 AM EDT by Slacker]
+1 on all points.


Originally Posted By Andyd:

Originally Posted By Rangie:
Most of the .357 mag ammo from Federal, Winchester, PMC......... is watered down.

........................................



No doubt, those Fiocchis are loaded hot! Same for their 9mm, .38 Special, and .32 ACP ammo.

I do not like to shoot harsh .357 loads from my K-frames and put medium velocity 158gr LSWC reloads into them most of the time. Controllability, low flash and noise are more important to me and slow burning magnum powders do not perform too great out of shorter barrels.

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:12:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 11:13:46 AM EDT by SIG45ACP]
What type of grips do you have on your gun? I've got the same gun--Mod 65 3" and I changed my grips to some made by Butler Creek (Model #50506). They cover the backstrap and also allow my pinky to not hang off the grip. When I got my gun, it had very small grips and the recoil was much more harsh. It is still a handful to shoot. The larger grips make the gun a little less concealable, though. I carry the Federal 125 JHP full magnum load. I try to limit shooting full charge loads to save the wear on my gun (and myself).
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:47:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SIG45ACP:
What type of grips do you have on your gun? I've got the same gun--Mod 65 3" and I changed my grips to some made by Butler Creek (Model #50506). They cover the backstrap and also allow my pinky to not hang off the grip. When I got my gun, it had very small grips and the recoil was much more harsh. It is still a handful to shoot. The larger grips make the gun a little less concealable, though. I carry the Federal 125 JHP full magnum load. I try to limit shooting full charge loads to save the wear on my gun (and myself).



I;ve got Pachmyr compacs on there now. The magnum recoil is "manageable" but I shoot better with something a bit lighter. Plus, I've read that a steady of diet of .357 will stretch the K frame over time. Since everyone says to practice with your "business" rounds it just seems to make more sense to settle on something manageable but effective. I think for now I'm going to go with the +P 158 SWCHP. I found a supply of it.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:36:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Winchester 110 grain .357 magnums. A lot less recoil than the full power 125 grainers, and should still be pretty damned effective.



I use the 110gr stuff in the Summer, 125's in the winter...110's don't penetrate very well through thick clothing, and are quick to open up. At least that is my opinion...
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:24:21 PM EDT
I've been doing some reading and I am confused. The manual for my taurus 651 says that grains lighter than 125 should not be used as it will erode the cylinders. When I shot mine I used 125 grain magtech golden hollow points and 156 grain magtech spearpoints (the heaviest I should use according to the manual). Of course the 125 grain ones were less painful to shoot. Why would they wear the gun out quicker?

I love shooting my new little hand cannon because it points and shoots so straight and true but I am going to limit my range shooting with it, it's my CCW gun, not my fun gun. I think I will shoot 10 rounds of 38 special ++P. and 5 rounds 357, non-125 grain. I will save the golden hollow points for carry purposes.

The person that had this gun before me must have only shot 38 special through it because when I got it I could not get 357 rounds into the cylinders. The reason did not occur to me at first which lead to a lively discussion in GD here. I don't see the point of exclusivly shooting 38 special through a 357 revolver yet I know many people that do just that. Just get a 38 special for crying out loud if that's all your going to shoot!

I cleaned it up and it shoots great!!!
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:09:13 AM EDT
i like 38spl cowboy loads. Kicks about like a 22 from my single action guns.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:11:16 AM EDT
Try Federal Tactical for reduced recoil .357 mag rounds.

I like Speer Gold Dot 38s.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 2:59:56 PM EDT
There are a lot of VERY smart people here.......especially those with my all-time favorite gun, the three-inch M65 Smith! I carry the Speer 135 in it, just bought a buttload of it and distributed it to my troops to carry, we are restricted to 38 Spl on duty, and all carry M-10's with 4 inch barrels. I'll shoot a few 357's out of my M-65 now and then, just to make sure I can do it, but since I carry a 38 on duty, I want to be used to the load. If figure it it works that well out of a 2", it should do fine out of a 3-4 inch barrel.

Bladeswitcher, you've got one of the finest carry guns there is, I put a Pachmayr Compac on mine and use it as my latest teaching gun. Woman love the small grip, and even guys with bigger hands shoot it well. I personally don't think there's a better all-around carry gun extant!

Papajohn
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:33:07 PM EDT
I agree with Unicorn.....110 grain Winchester hollowpoint. Even in a short barrel revolver, it is like shooting a 9mm 115 hp out of a gun with a longer barrel.....and less recoil. My prefered ammo for my Ruger SP-101 .357.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:55:08 PM EDT
the Remington .357 Golden Sabre is NOT a full power load. . .they refer to it as 3/4 power.

i'm not sure if Federal still loads it, but their 158gr. LSWHP Nyclad .38 +P is another great cartridge.

the Winchester 110gr. JHP .357 has considerable blast and is shallow penetrating.

my vote is for the Remington .357 Golden Sabre or +P.38 158gr. Nyclad HP
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 12:09:37 AM EDT
The Winchester 110 grain JHP is a great load. It expands pretty good we shot some bowling pins with it smooth recoil but a big flash. The Fiocchi ammo is great clean hot accurate ammo bery under rated ammo.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 11:49:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 11:52:47 AM EDT by Stasher1]
I found the Win. 110 gr Hp to be horribly innacurate out of my 2" Taurus 605. The 135 gr. Gold Dots and 158 gr Hydra Shocks shot to point of aim, but the 110 gr. Winchesters shot very low @ 7 yds. I think I'll give the 158 gr. Winchesters a try next time.

Of the three loads, the Gold Dots were the smoothest shooting. I think I've found my carry load.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:35:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By papajohn:
There are a lot of VERY smart people here.......especially those with my all-time favorite gun, the three-inch M65 Smith! I carry the Speer 135 in it, just bought a buttload of it and distributed it to my troops to carry, we are restricted to 38 Spl on duty, and all carry M-10's with 4 inch barrels I'll shoot a few 357's out of my M-65 now and then, just to make sure I can do it, but since I carry a 38 on duty, I want to be used to the load. If figure it it works that well out of a 2", it should do fine out of a 3-4 inch barrel.

Bladeswitcher, you've got one of the finest carry guns there is, I put a Pachmayr Compac on mine and use it as my latest teaching gun. Woman love the small grip, and even guys with bigger hands shoot it well. I personally don't think there's a better all-around carry gun extant!

Papajohn



Holy Crap, does your Dept. know its not 1950 anymore?
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 6:18:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 6:19:35 PM EDT by Rangie]

Originally Posted By AKsRule:

Originally Posted By papajohn:
There are a lot of VERY smart people here.......especially those with my all-time favorite gun, the three-inch M65 Smith! I carry the Speer 135 in it, just bought a buttload of it and distributed it to my troops to carry, we are restricted to 38 Spl on duty, and all carry M-10's with 4 inch barrels I'll shoot a few 357's out of my M-65 now and then, just to make sure I can do it, but since I carry a 38 on duty, I want to be used to the load. If figure it it works that well out of a 2", it should do fine out of a 3-4 inch barrel.

Bladeswitcher, you've got one of the finest carry guns there is, I put a Pachmayr Compac on mine and use it as my latest teaching gun. Woman love the small grip, and even guys with bigger hands shoot it well. I personally don't think there's a better all-around carry gun extant!

Papajohn



Holy Crap, does your Dept. know its not 1950 anymore?



Maby they don't follow every passing fad.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:59:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gitarmac:
I've been doing some reading and I am confused. The manual for my taurus 651 says that grains lighter than 125 should not be used as it will erode the cylinders. When I shot mine I used 125 grain magtech golden hollow points and 156 grain magtech spearpoints (the heaviest I should use according to the manual). Of course the 125 grain ones were less painful to shoot. Why would they wear the gun out quicker?




The 125 grain rounds are usually loaded hotter than the other weights. More, and hotter gasses released during fireing burn out the cylinder faster.
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