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Posted: 4/30/2020 9:21:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DOE: They are until you empty five into a perp and they are still in the fight.  That's why you carry a knife. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 10:01:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CorruptBureaucrat: That's why you carry a knife. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CorruptBureaucrat: Originally Posted By DOE: They are until you empty five into a perp and they are still in the fight. That's why you carry a knife. Not if they're still shooting at you.  You gotta be within arm distance.  Bring a NY reload. |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 10:20:00 PM EDT
[#3]
 Attached FileThis model 640 .357 was a bear to shoot with factory grips. The Hogue Tamer grips solved that problem. It was always too heavy to carry as a pocket gun. I have a 360J and a 442 Pro for that, both wearing VZ grips. They are both for carrying a lot and shooting a little.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/30/2020 10:34:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DOE: Not if they're still shooting at you. You gotta be within arm distance. Bring a NY reload. The revolver is the NY reload. |
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Posted: 5/1/2020 2:44:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: The revolver is the NY reload. Dual revolvers!  |
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Posted: 5/2/2020 7:49:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Thanks for all the replies.
You guys are great! I guess I should have said “why do I keep trying to like J frame Airweights?” My 437 showed up, and even though I’ve been wanting a blue revolver with a hammer spur, I immediately didn’t love it. I traded it for a new S&W 638. Has a the hammer but it’s shrouded for easy pocket carry. I just ordered a titanium cylinder and a Wilson spring kit from MidwayUSA.  I should probably turn over my credit card to my wife. 
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Posted: 5/2/2020 9:00:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for all the replies. You guys are great! I guess I should have said "why do I keep trying to like J frame Airweights?" My 437 showed up, and even though I've been wanting a blue revolver with a hammer spur, I immediately didn't love it. I traded it for a new S&W 638. Has a the hammer but it's shrouded for easy pocket carry. I just ordered a titanium cylinder and a Wilson spring kit from MidwayUSA. I should probably turn over my credit card to my wife. Well done! I'll bet you'll love the 638 when you're carrying it, Not so much love with +P loads though. I've had a 638 for several years and love the little beast. I've found that Buffalo Bore standard pressure LHPSWC loads are not too punishing to shoot and deliver good accuracy.The old standard wadcutter target loads are downright enjoyable to shoot and will allow all the practice time/familiarization you want without beating you up. Simply Rugged makes a great pocket holster for the 638 at a decent price too. Pocket Protector |
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Posted: 5/2/2020 9:44:37 PM EDT
[#8]
hogue makes this grip that goes all the way up on the back strap of the centinnial (340?). it fits on an x38 too, though I had to champther the rubber a bit at the top. It really brings the hand up close to the bore so the recoil does not flip so much but goes more straight back, and is padded nicely. The butt of the grip is a hard non tacky plastic. It has a place for the pinkey, but I ground it off so the hard plastic part just covers the butt a little bit and so the pinky just goes under the butt.
ETA: This is the grip I am talking about: Attached FileI cut off the rubber pinky rest in the front and groudn the plastic cap down. It still works as designed. Best grip ever. If they had that back then I might have kept that scandium 357. |
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Posted: 5/17/2020 8:41:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: They hurt to shoot unless you stick gigantic rubber stocks on them. To me that defeats the purpose of a small, marginal caliber gun. The are hard to consistently be accurate with. I’ve owned at least half a dozen. Mostly Centennials, a couple with external hammers. Airweights, Airlites, .357, .38... I’ve tried every stock imaginable. Wood, rubber, G10, large, small. Sold my 20 year old, no lock 642 last year. Swore I was done with the little beasts. Now I’m waiting for a 437 to be delivered. Either I’m not too bright, I need help, or both. Similar to a 'bad' girlfriend...you kept coming back for more hurt Joking aside, I do know the feeling. Sold 2 .38 snubnoses and 2 months later, bought another abeit much cheaper this time, a Taurus .38 in stainless ...I couldn't resist the price new one OTD for less than 225. |
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Posted: 5/17/2020 8:54:59 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mini14jac: I guess I should have said “why do I keep trying to like J frame Airweights?” Yeah, the alloy frame guns are pretty bad. The steel frames are nice . . . not as nice as a K frame, but still great guns. |
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Posted: 5/25/2020 5:38:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I put a Barami Hip Grip and a Tyler on mine (see my avatar). Not grippy at all after that Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have a model 638 Airweight I pocket carry sometimes and I wasn't happy with how "grabby" the stock rubber grips were on clothing. I put a set of wood S&W grips on it and that solved the problem but they made it more uncomfortable to shoot. I just got a Tyler T grip from a member here and they make a big difference to me anyway, Much less bite from the trigger guard. I have the same combo on an old Charter "Undercover." The Barami was a little slick and shiny, but a Scotch-brite pad took care of that and gave it a matte finish like the gun.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/25/2020 5:52:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are until you empty five into a perp and they are still in the fight. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't know why, there's just something sexy to me about a classic s&w snub nose but I just shoot so much better with something like a glock 43 or p365 They are until you empty five into a perp and they are still in the fight. Sure, because no one was ever "still in the fight" after being shot by a semi-auto.  https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-man-shot-15-times-walks-emergency-room-66521823 |
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Posted: 5/25/2020 6:02:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Why do I keep trying to like .38 J Frames? Because they are still the ne plus ultra of ankle- and pocket-carry. The S&W 342 only weighs 10.8 ounces - less than 13 ounces loaded. Nothing shootable is easier to conceal, nothing is lighter, nothing is more snag-proof, nothing is more forgiving of an imperfect grip, nothing has a safer trigger, nothing is easier to retain while grappling. All that contributes to a fast draw. Quoted:They hurt to shoot unless you stick gigantic rubber stocks on them. To me that defeats the purpose of a small, marginal caliber gun. Wadcutters are what you seek. Low recoil, and still surprisingly effective as a defensive load. Crimson Trace laser grips will both improve your hit-probability and help you handle recoil without being bulky. I'd use them even if they didn't have lasers incorporated. Quoted: The(y) are hard to consistently be accurate with. Take a revolver course, and then practice what you learn. You can be surprisingly good with them. And they will teach you trigger control that will carry over to your other pistols. Laser grips are good teachers, too - they give you instant feedback. If you are, for example, pulling your shots left, you will see it in real time on the target. I usually end every handgun practice session with some revolver drills, and I leave a couple chambers in the cylinder empty so that I never know if it's going to go bang or not. While I'm on a roll about J-frames, check out Kramer horsehide ankle and pocket holsters. Expensive but worth it. |
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Posted: 5/25/2020 11:52:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because they are still the ne plus ultra of ankle- and pocket-carry. The S&W 342 only weighs 10.8 ounces - less than 13 ounces loaded. Nothing shootable is easier to conceal, nothing is lighter, nothing is more snag-proof, nothing is more forgiving of an imperfect grip, nothing has a safer trigger, nothing is easier to retain while grappling. All that contributes to a fast draw. Wadcutters are what you seek. Low recoil, and still surprisingly effective as a defensive load. And they will teach you trigger control that will carry over to your other pistols. https://www.keltecweapons.com/firearms/pistols/p32/  6.6 oz, and it's got a helluva better trigger than my Ruger SP101, and a damn sight cheaper too. More snag-proof than my SP101, to boot. And it's gonna drill a .32" hole straight through just like your .035" larger diameter wadcutter, and a lot more controllable recoil. Oh, and 8 shots. And by teaching trigger control you mean that DA revolver triggers are fucking awful. |
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Posted: 5/26/2020 5:00:13 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.keltecweapons.com/firearms/pistols/p32/ https://www.keltecweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/P-32-right_DSC2898-1.jpg 6.6 oz, and it's got a helluva better trigger than my Ruger SP101, and a damn sight cheaper too. More snag-proof than my SP101, to boot. And it's gonna drill a .32" hole straight through just like your .035" larger diameter wadcutter, and a lot more controllable recoil. Oh, and 8 shots. And by teaching trigger control you mean that DA revolver triggers are fucking awful. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Because they are still the ne plus ultra of ankle- and pocket-carry. The S&W 342 only weighs 10.8 ounces - less than 13 ounces loaded. Nothing shootable is easier to conceal, nothing is lighter, nothing is more snag-proof, nothing is more forgiving of an imperfect grip, nothing has a safer trigger, nothing is easier to retain while grappling. All that contributes to a fast draw. Wadcutters are what you seek. Low recoil, and still surprisingly effective as a defensive load. And they will teach you trigger control that will carry over to your other pistols. https://www.keltecweapons.com/firearms/pistols/p32/ https://www.keltecweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/P-32-right_DSC2898-1.jpg 6.6 oz, and it's got a helluva better trigger than my Ruger SP101, and a damn sight cheaper too. More snag-proof than my SP101, to boot. And it's gonna drill a .32" hole straight through just like your .035" larger diameter wadcutter, and a lot more controllable recoil. Oh, and 8 shots. And by teaching trigger control you mean that DA revolver triggers are fucking awful. Good DA triggers are a thing of beauty |
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Posted: 5/26/2020 6:52:35 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LCR is the answer to your problem. 100% right. If you want a nice looking snubnose, buy a J frame. If you want one you can shoot, buy an LCR. |
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Posted: 5/26/2020 6:56:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.keltecweapons.com/firearms/pistols/p32/ https://www.keltecweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/P-32-right_DSC2898-1.jpg 6.6 oz, and it's got a helluva better trigger than my Ruger SP101, and a damn sight cheaper too. More snag-proof than my SP101, to boot. And it's gonna drill a .32" hole straight through just like your .035" larger diameter wadcutter, and a lot more controllable recoil. Oh, and 8 shots. And by teaching trigger control you mean that DA revolver triggers are fucking awful. The Keltec does have a capacity advantage, and it is very light and concealable. But: The sights are even more rudimentary than even the worst J-frame sights, with no way to pin on something better. Laser grips are not available for it. The P-32 is so tiny that it crosses the threshold of practical shootability. I can't even get two full fingers below the trigger guard. Most of the weight advantage goes away once it's loaded and in a holster. .32 ammo, when you can find it, costs twice as much as .38. .32 FMJ will make ice-pick holes, pushing tissue aside instead of crushing it like the flat face and sharp corners of .38 wadcutters or hollow points. And the elephant in the room is: 100 foot/pounds of energy. There's no way to put a happy-face on that. It makes everything but .22 look like the Hammer of Thor. And all the above is assuming that your Keltec functions, especially when it's got some dust and lint in it from being carried in an ankle or pocket holster. |
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Posted: 5/26/2020 9:12:01 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Keltec does have a capacity advantage, and it is very light and concealable. But: The sights are even more rudimentary than even the worst J-frame sights, with no way to pin on something better. Laser grips are not available for it. The P-32 is so tiny that it crosses the threshold of practical shootability. I can't even get two full fingers below the trigger guard. Most of the weight advantage goes away once it's loaded and in a holster. .32 ammo, when you can find it, costs twice as much as .38. .32 FMJ will make ice-pick holes, pushing tissue aside instead of crushing it like the flat face and sharp corners of .38 wadcutters or hollow points. And the elephant in the room is: 100 foot/pounds of energy. There's no way to put a happy-face on that. It makes everything but .22 look like the Hammer of Thor. And all the above is assuming that your Keltec functions, especially when it's got some dust and lint in it from being carried in an ankle or pocket holster. https://innovativearms.com/portfolio/sight-upgrade/ https://www.opticsplanet.com/crimson-trace-lg430-p3at-p32-kel-tec-laser-grip.html I ran through 49 rounds of WWB yesterday, two handed & left-handed. There's recoil, but not anywhere close to .38 SPL 125 grn Cowboy Action loads from a S&W M&P Bodyguard. 2-finger grip is fine on the Kel-Tec .32, and there are extended mags w/ grip extenders if you must get 3 fingers on the butt. https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/the-best-32-acp-ammo-for-self-defense/ https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Handgun/USA/Q4255 - despite their crappy illustrations, it's a flat-nosed FMJ. Pistols are not about energy - they're about penetration. And .32 ACP FMJ will penetrate @ least 12" through clothing barriers. As far as the weight advantage, if you want lighter weight, you don't have to carry the extended mag, or even all 8 rounds & a reload. You went out on a limb and said nothing was lighter than your favored carry gun. Well, there is, and now you're dancing around your point. And one of the major advantages of a pocket holster is it protects the gun from dust & lint. And my tiny IWB holster weighs practically nothing, and still fits in my pocket when I need it to. What the Kel-Tec won't do is fire multiple shots through a pocket or purse - the slide will jam after the 1st shot. So your revolver holds that single advantage. |
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Posted: 5/26/2020 2:34:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... (snip)\ ... I said "nothing shootable". By "shootable", I meant a gun with practical ergonomics. (And I assumed that it would be in an effective caliber for self defense.) If a pistol you can only get a one-and-a-half finger grip on seems practical to you, okay. You do you. If you spent more than the gun is worth to have the slide machined for sights, well, it was your money and no one else's business. If your pocket and ankle guns don't get dust and lint in them, then you have a secret I would love to learn. If you want to believe that .32 ACP is just as effective as any other handgun caliber, no one can stop you. If you take a defensive handgun course with your P32, I promise that it will be a series of revelations. |
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Posted: 5/26/2020 10:35:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I said "nothing shootable". By "shootable", I meant a gun with practical ergonomics. (And I assumed that it would be in an effective caliber for self defense.) If a pistol you can only get a one-and-a-half finger grip on seems practical to you, okay. You do you. If you spent more than the gun is worth to have the slide machined for sights, well, it was your money and no one else's business. If your pocket and ankle guns don't get dust and lint in them, then you have a secret I would love to learn. If you want to believe that .32 ACP is just as effective as any other handgun caliber, no one can stop you. If you take a defensive handgun course with your P32, I promise that it will be a series of revelations. LOL. It's TOO small and TOO light, so it's not practical. Even though I pointed out you can get longer magazines w/ sleeves so you can get a 3-fingered grip on it, you cut down my two-finger grip to 1 & a half. .32 ACP FMJ flat nose is damn near as effective on humans as your .38 wadcutter. If you want to believe that your .38 wadcutter is as effective as any other handgun caliber, no one can stop you. I've not had my slide machined for sights, but it'll still be cheaper than most of the lightweight .38s, unless you go Charter. And they'll be a damn sight better than most of the snubbies' sights. Go shoot one of em sometime. It'll be a revelation. |
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Posted: 5/27/2020 7:21:26 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL. It's TOO small and TOO light, so it's not practical.... Yes, the Keltec P32 is too small and too light to be a practical defensive handgun. It also has a poor reputation for reliability, it has almost non-existent sights, it's cheaply made, and .32 ACP is an inadequate caliber. But if it seems like a good choice to you, go for it. It's your business and no one else will care. |
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Posted: 5/27/2020 9:40:32 PM EDT
[#22]
I will take a P32 I can actually shoot over a J frame that is nearly unshootable. I don't know what it is about J frames but they are painful and horribly inaccurate for me. Hell, I'll take ANY mousegun, even a .22 Beretta Bobcat, over a J frame.
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Posted: 6/1/2020 2:21:29 PM EDT
[#23]
I put the pachmyer compacs on my 642 and it gives me more grip to control the gun with not much added bulk. Never understood how people pocket carry these. Thin leather holster or a pistol wear belly band is good for me. Went on several runs with my 642 and extra speed strip and never lost the gun. Just basketball shorts and t shirt. No need to shoot high power 38s. Heavy slow bullet works just as well.
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Posted: 6/1/2020 2:46:54 PM EDT
[#24]
I carried an old style S&W model 49 for years. They're good guns. Especially good jacket pocket guns. You can empty five and never even have to take it out of the pocket.
That's what we call, The Element of Surprise! in a robbery situation! |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 3:13:38 PM EDT
[#25]
I have a 442 with one of those clip grip things. Bought it specifically for a "just toss it under my gut and go" gun.
Would I do a range day with it after having broke it in? Nope. But I consider J frames to be a gun to have when you may not have set up for your primary ccw. |
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Posted: 6/2/2020 7:54:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Used mine in a local IDPA match and found out I needed to relieve my grips so the shells would not hang up on ejection. Reloads were slow but was able to make hits out to 25 yards. Wore my workout gear. Better practice than a shoot-me vest and full-size competition gun.
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Posted: 6/2/2020 8:15:04 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will take a P32 I can actually shoot over a J frame that is nearly unshootable. I don't know what it is about J frames but they are painful and horribly inaccurate for me. Hell, I'll take ANY mousegun, even a .22 Beretta Bobcat, over a J frame. Hogue grips are mandatory in my experience. Plus, the new lightweight alloy frames, are so much harder to shoot than the old full metal ones (like the old Model 49 that I carried). We were issued 158 grain lead semi-wadcutters back then, and we had to qualify out to fifty yards with them. They changed that to just 25 yards for back up guns about halfway through my career, but I always still shot the 50 yard course with my 49 because I thought it was good practice and good to know I could do it if I had to. But, as a prior poster mentioned, you can always shoot target wadcutters in them for a lot less kick. Still better than a .22, though. |
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Posted: 6/6/2020 4:04:02 PM EDT
[#28]
I only had one J frame 38 Special that I really liked and could shoot to my satisfaction. Bought it many years ago when we had to use a revolver. It was a 3 inch heavy barrel M36 with the larger M10 type sights and a square butt. The dealer said it was an overrun of revolvers made for the NYPD female officers. I could shoot it as well as a 4 inch K frame and recoil was not bad. Used it for mostly off duty.
I do admit to carrying a 2 inch J frame lightweight for a BUG, as it was smaller. But it was a lot harder to shoot. |
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