Forgive my ignorance as I know nothing about revolvers.  But if you have a revolver cut for moon clips, do you have to use them?  To say it another way, can you still load rounds into the cylinder safely without using the moon clips?

on my S&W 625 you needed them

45acp N-frame

I didn't think you needed to on .38 j frames.  But now maybe I'm all wet.

@CombatDiver

You should be able to still shoot without moon clips.  Ejecting the empties can be difficult though.  The cartridge should headspace on the case mouth as long as you aren't trying to shoot a short cartridge in a long chamber ala 40 S&W in a 10mm revolver.  Obviously in the case of 45 ACP revolvers you can just use 45 Auto Rim brass.

That's a good point, I am talking about a .38/.357 model 627.

I have a 442 pro that is cut for moonclips. I never use them, never had a problem.

Required for rimless cartriges (.45ACP, 10MM etc)
not required for rimmed cartriges (.45 Colt, .357 Mag etc)

You should be able to shoot 357 as they should headspace on the case mouth.  38s probably won't work without moon clips.

ETA-

Depending on whether or not there is a lip that the rim will sit on around the outer diameter of the cylinder.  I can't tell without sering a pic of the back of the cylinder.

If I'm at the range I don't use them for a 9mm LCR.

Most revolvers for rimmed cartridges that are cut for moonclips will leave a raised area around the outside of the cylinder on which the cartridges can head space on if there is no moonclip used.  I have both a 442 and a 627 cut for moonclips that will work with and without the moonclips.  I have never seen a cylinder for a rimmed cartridge that is cut for moonclips that does not also have the rim around the outside of the cylinder but that does not mean someone hasn't done it.  If it's a factory revolver for a rimmed cartridge from S&W or Ruger cut for moonclips it will work both with and without.

Rimless revolver will frequently work without the mooclips but not always.  Some models of the S&W 25/625 chambered in 45 ACP will work without a moonclip (head spacing on the mouth) and some will not.

Are we talking a revolver made originally to use clips, or one that has been modified to use them.  If the cylinder has been shaved and reshaped to allow the use of a rimmed cartridge in a moon clip, then yes you will need the clip or the headspace will be wrong.

Some firearms that are made to use the clips will not function, and some will.

As an example all S&W 1917's could be used with or without clips because of a step milled into the chamber that head spaced the .45 acp cartridge on the mouth of the case (just like the 1911).  Early Colt 1917's did not have the step and inserting an unclipped round would cause it to slide right through.  Colt, whether they decided themselves or were told by the military, started to put the step in their revolver chambers after a bit.

If the gun is designed for revolver cartridges then it will work fine in all aspects with or without clips. The guns made for auto pistol cartridges maybe. The 45 I had would no problem and usually a vigorous shake with the cylinder open caused 4 or 5 of six cases to fall out with one or two needing to be picked out by hand. Due to dimensional variation some guns ( again talking auto rounds here) will misfire without clips. As I understand it the newer smiths in 9mm you have to use clips

I rarely use them with any of my .45 ACP chambered guns. In theory you should use them, but I get lazy after a few cylinder fulls and stop using them. It does make extraction harder though. You could also use autorim brass.

You just need more moonclips! 



For USPSA matches I usually show up with a bit over 250 rds on moonclips ready to go.  When I went to the USPSA National Match a few years ago I had nearly 900rd on moonclips.

Every moonclip goes into the gun and then, WITHOUT my finger on the the trigger, I thum the hammer is pull back just far enough to unlock the cylinder. I then rotate the cylinder by hand.  The ensure my cartridges are good and that my moonclip is not bent.  I do this with the gun pointed into the corner of the basement wall.  The moonclips are then protected by the Plano boxes above until putting them on my moonclip server at the match.


ETA:  I double checked and all of my revolvers that are made for moonclips (442, 610, 625, 627) will work with or without the moonclips.  The only combinations I could come up with that would not function was 40S&W without moonclips in my 610 and 45 GAP without moonclips in my 625.

My understanding is that semi-auto pistols headspace on the case mouth while revolvers headspace on the rim or moon clip.

Neither of my revolvers (both .38 Spl) headspace on the case mouth.  I always thought cut revolvers were so you could use rimless cartridges.

Now, if you get your revolver cut for moon clips, for rimmed cartridges, and you shoot without the clips, you're going to have the bottom of the cartridge unsupported, and that sounds like a bad idea.

Every revolver I have ever seen chamber in a rimmed cartridge that has been cut for moonclips is done so while leaving a raised rim around the outside of the cylinder.  This raise rim is left so that if loaded without a moonclip the rounds can still head space off the rim properly.





My 442 and 627 both loaded with loose rounds (ie no moonclip) as you can see the rounds are proper head space on the raised area left around the edge of the cylinder.





My 625 and 610 loaded with loose rounds properly head spacing on the case mouths.

I don't think the 929 will work without moon clips but I haven't tried it on mine to see

Lots of bad information in this thread.

A properly manufactured revolver will not require moon clips, regardless of caliber.

A semi-automatic cartridge is designed to headspace off of the case mouth, a rimmed cartridge headspaces off the rim. If the cylinder is cut for semi-automatic cartridges, the chamber is cut to SAAMI specs, the only reason moon clips exist is to ease ejection of the empty brass.

Now here is the slight exception, when you use moon clips with a rimless cartridge, you are indeed head spacing off the clip, however, if the cylinder was cut properly for moon clips the case mouth should be resting on or slightly below the edge of cut (for the cartridge), as we all know from firing 38s in a .357, this isn't a problem.

With a rimmed cartridge, the moonclip does not come into play for head spacing issues, as the cartridge is still headspacing off the rim. It is possible for a rimmed cartridge to headspace off the clip, but only if the cylinder was not cut correctly for moon clips, or the clip is thicker than the moonclip cut.


Firing a cartridge without a moon clip, in a gun cut for moon clips poses absolutely no issues. In both rimless and rimmed chambered revolvers the cartridge is supported entirely.



ETA To note: This information is for modern, properly manufactured revolvers in good condition. I'm sure there are plenty of M1917 revolvers that will not work without moon clips.

My 625-2 will properly chamber and fire .45ACP without moon clips and do so safely.  Ejecting is the issue.  

Same with revolvers cut for them.  The moon clip doesn't support the case for pressure purposes, it only assists in the handling of cases.  

There is no shoulder in a .357 chamber.  They do not headspace on anything.  The cases seat on the rim.  For this reason, the case may not fire without a clip if it is cut, due to increased clearance to the firing pin.

.45 and 9mm do headspace on the case mouth.   

I have cleaned enough chambers to know there is no rim to headspace inside the .38 or .357 bore. I only have ten of them.  

What? Every cartridge has to headspace on something, whether it's rim, case mouth, belt, etc.

What do you mean .357 chambers have no 'shoulder'?

The other exception are 40S&W in a S&W 610 requires a moonclip.  45 GAP in a 25/625/1917 requires the moonclip.  45 ACP in a S&W Governor requires a moonclip.  45 ACP in the new Ruger Redhawk 45ACP/45Colt revolver requires a moonclip.

Good point, didn't even think about that until you mentioned it.

The only revolver I have that is cut for Moon Clips is my 625 in .45ACP... It is also my favorite revolver even out of vintage 70's Smith model 36's, and a Colt snub. Using moon clips is the only way to carry a revolver for me! Ejection and reloading is just as fast as swapping a magazine on my favorite 1911 Commander, maybe even faster... And its quite easy to put a couple extra full Moon Clips in a weak side jacket pocket or even pants pockets. I often carry the 625 for around town carry and 100% of the time for woods carry. As said before, there is no beating a cylinder refill with Moon Clips! I can't imagine CCW-ing a revolver without Moons now. My non moon clip equipped revolvers have been all but dedicated to range duty and teaching my girls how to shoot. YMMV...

I've got one revolver cut for moon clips and thats a 442 Pro.  It can use the moon clips, speed loaders, speed strips or loose rounds.  I like carrying the speed strips for their flatness as my 442 is pocket carried.




CD

Fewer than you might think.  Smith 1917's were always machined with a headspacing step in the cylinder.    Colt used straight bored cylinders until service number 30,451  (out of around 150,000) made.  So the ones that actually NEED moon clips are pretty rare.

Nice revo's MCB! I have a 625-8 "Miculek" version. I load up 25 MoonClips at home and head to the range... always load up 3 or 4 clips full of .45Super from Buffalo Bore. ReLoads are even faster than I can load my 1911's (and I can change mags really well.) My question to you MCB is: How do you like the cylinder release's on your 625 and 610; and where did you get them/brand? They look like they would make a clip change in my 625 even faster! The 625 is our "Woods Gun" carry and fast n' reliable cylinder changes are paramount to me with all the coyotes we are encountering in/around Highlands NC at our 2nd Mountain Home...

Thanks!  The cylinder release is from California Competition Works: http://www.demooner.com/product.asp?numRecordPosition=4&P_ID=89&strPageHistory=cat&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=28

I have one on all three of my N-frames and have the exact same modified grip on each.  Found I need to trip the Hogue grip down a touch to give me better access to the release.  It also gives me a convenient place to ride my strong hand thumb similar to some shooters ride a 1911 safety.  You can see the grip mod in this image, just below and behind the cylinder release.

Sometimes old-school is the best:



Braz Contract with original commercial grips.

Yup this is what I do as well.  I can pick the cases out just fine with my fingernails.   Obviously if I was carrying I would use moon clips.