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Posted: 4/27/2017 1:10:15 PM EDT
Since there are none on the approved list, what do u guys use?  If any of you do.  I've been using Hornady's American Gunner 125 grain because every test I could find shows it penetrating deep.  But not usually opening.

It looks like most loads that open up might not penetrate deep enough.  So I'm not sure if the load I'm using is any better than fmj, but it feels hotter than range ammo.  I also have carried american eagle 158 lrn and it also feels hotter than 130 grain range loads.

I'm thinking about getting some federal wadcutters for the first 5 shots and using the hornady for my reloads.

Just curious what or if anyone else is doing.
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 4:32:21 PM EDT
[#1]
I use these. They are accurate and don't kick all that much.

Hornady Custom Ammunition 38 Special 158 Grain XTP
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 5:02:46 PM EDT
[#2]
I put Hornady Critical Defense in my 36.
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 5:07:39 PM EDT
[#3]
old school... Federal 125 NyClads in my 442... I don't typically need to worry about heavy clothing...
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 6:38:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Buffalo Bore
Std. Pressure 158gr. soft cast LSWCHP
Shoots dead on to J-frame fixed sights.
The soft lead HP flattens and expands very well with decent penetration.
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 9:49:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Buffalo Bore
Std. Pressure 158gr. soft cast LSWCHP
Shoots dead on to J-frame fixed sights.
The soft lead HP flattens and expands very well with decent penetration.
View Quote
This or Federal Gold Medal Match or Winchester 148gr wadcutters, lots of tests to show they both work well.
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 10:15:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Buffalo Bore
Std. Pressure 158gr. soft cast LSWCHP
Shoots dead on to J-frame fixed sights.
The soft lead HP flattens and expands very well with decent penetration.
View Quote
Won't that feel like shooting +p's?
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 10:24:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Won't that feel like shooting +p's?
View Quote
No.
It's 158gr. @ 850fps.
While that's not Wal-Mart whitebox levels of recoil, it is milder than Speer 135gr. +P Gold Dots.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 1:16:36 PM EDT
[#8]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_32/158221_LCR__38_Special__P_Review.html

Speer Gold Dot 125 grain standard pressure .38 Special
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 1:43:17 PM EDT
[#9]
I emailed Speer and I was told they're not making that load any longer.  I couldn't find it in stock anywhere either.  


I was surpised at some of the gel tests on the youtube for the Federal 110 grain Hydra shok.  I think it was actually fairing pretty good in some of the tests......  Enough penetration.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 3:10:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Try Streichers, police supply.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 4:49:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Federal 38c. 158gr lead semi wad cutter.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:53:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Try Streichers, police supply.
View Quote
I think I did.  

It's weird, they show it non plus p and plus p for that load.  

I guess I should call them and confirm.  But I'm pretty sure I tried this one other time and it ended up being that the Non Plus P load wasn't available any longer.....

Here's an email from a long time ago:



From: James Rea [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 12:31 PM
To: Experts, SpeerAmmo
Subject: RE: Speer-ammo.com - Ask Speer Ammo Form



Well there's something I've never heard of.  Over expansion and over penetrating both at the same time.  Usually it's one or the other. Thanks for the insight though. You get both when a Gold Dot bullet is over-driven.

If I were to buy a speer product to use in my 16" model 19 for either home defense or hunting, which load would be best?  Just the standard 135 grain gold dot +p?   Taking this as NOT a “16 inch” barrel, rather a 6”.  Part # 23920 the 357 Mag 125 gr would be the home defense load I’d choose. Or do you guys make a standard pressure .38 135 grain load still?  The 135 gr bullets are in Short Barrel products. I thought I saw it on a website, but I wasn't sure if I it was a typo or not.   Would that be better for a 6" barreled gun? Not made, no.

Also, if there is such a standard pressure round, how do they perform in a 2" gun?  The bullet is made to perform at the lower velocity, that bullet is not loaded at standard pressure.

Coy

speers list.  Only +p for .38 special
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 8:43:04 PM EDT
[#13]
For self defense with a snubby, no modern load can beat....

Link Posted: 5/2/2017 6:25:46 PM EDT
[#14]
I'd use the 158 gr XTP.

It will penetrate as well as the 125 gr XTP and have a slightly better chance of expansion - but thinking your going to get both expansion and 12" penetration with a 2" standard pressure .38 is right up there with Unicorns and the Easter Bunny. You can't really beat physics.

The Hornady FTX  bullets will expand well as snub nose standard pressure .38 velocities, but they will under penetrate, you you need to set your priorities and pick your poison.  Or just use a good .38+ P load where both expansion and 12" penetration are possible with a 2" .38.
Link Posted: 5/3/2017 1:50:16 AM EDT
[#15]
Why the hate for the +P?  

Me, I'd go for an FBI +P load for my S&W M60.  Anyway......

Yes, I'd also give the nod to the old Federal Nyclad (I believe that S&W also made some).  But, I don't know who is making them today.

Aloha, Mark

PS....if you like reading (cut n' paste).....

http://hipowersandhandguns.com/38%20Special%20158gr%20LSWCHP.htm

http://hipowersandhandguns.com/38%20Snub%20Ammo%20Test.htm

http://hipowersandhandguns.com/FBI%20Load%20Velocities%20from%20Snubs.htm

http://hipowersandhandguns.com/Part2%20S&W%20Airweight%20JFrames-Do%20They%20Last.htm
Link Posted: 5/3/2017 12:00:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Not really hate.  I just can't shoot them in my 442 and not flinch bad after a few rounds.
Link Posted: 5/3/2017 7:53:38 PM EDT
[#17]
I use the Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWCHP.
Link Posted: 5/3/2017 8:08:32 PM EDT
[#18]
I forget if you have an airweight.....  I might have to check them out if they have less recoil than Plus P.    But for me, even the Hornady American Gunner 125's are pretty hot in my 442.  But manageable.   I'm thinking I might go for wadcutters loaded in the cylinder.  

Plus I'd like to find something that hits a little better to POA for me.  A lot of loads are high and right.  Although that's partly me.  But there are some that hit a little closer to POA.  I think.....
Link Posted: 5/3/2017 8:57:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I forget if you have an airweight.....  I might have to check them out if they have less recoil than Plus P.    But for me, even the Hornady American Gunner 125's are pretty hot in my 442.  But manageable.   I'm thinking I might go for wadcutters loaded in the cylinder.  

Plus I'd like to find something that hits a little better to POA for me.  A lot of loads are high and right.  Although that's partly me.  But there are some that hit a little closer to POA.  I think.....
View Quote
I have three old (1949 to 1975) .38 snubs that hit to POA with 158 grain ammo and low with the 135 grain Gold Dot. My four year old 442 shoots to POA with the Gold Dot or 130 grain Ranger Bonded +P.
If your snub is newer, try the lighter bullets to determine POA.
I carry 158 grain Remington 158 grain LHP +P in all my old girls and the Speer Gold Dots in the 442. An occasional cylinderful of +P in these guns won't hurt them. Nearly all of my practice is with a 158 grain SWC bullet backed by the max standard .38 charge of BE-86. This load chronographs at 772 FPS in my early '70s S&W M60.
Link Posted: 5/7/2017 9:18:46 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Buffalo Bore
Std. Pressure 158gr. soft cast LSWCHP
Shoots dead on to J-frame fixed sights.
The soft lead HP flattens and expands very well with decent penetration.
View Quote
  ^^ This!  I've been carrying that load in my 638 and they shoot dead on and they don't have that Someone hit me in the hand with a Louisville Slugger recoil either.
Link Posted: 5/7/2017 8:11:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Hmmmmmm......

I also got to thinking.....  I have some of the Cor Bon 110 +p's and I wonder if they have a little bit less felt recoil than the Gold Dots I shot.  Since the bullet is a little lighter.  My guess is probably not much.  But I might try.

I might have to try some of them Buffalo Bore ones too.  I have never once dropped the hammer on that company's ammo.  Even though I've read about them forever.
Link Posted: 5/10/2017 12:50:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
old school... Federal 125 NyClads in my 442... I don't typically need to worry about heavy clothing...
View Quote
My carry load.


CD
Link Posted: 5/10/2017 1:30:46 PM EDT
[#23]
You must still have a stash.....
Link Posted: 5/10/2017 1:49:20 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
You must still have a stash.....  
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Yeap

CD
Link Posted: 5/10/2017 5:28:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Why the hate for the +P?  
View Quote
No hate, just critical thought.

+P loads really don't produce any better practical results out of 2" than non +P when recoil, blast, and flash are factored in. If ones goal is to get expansion out of their bullet in gel (an unbelievably overrated function more applicable to selling high priced ammunition than producing effective results in flesh) then using +P also over promises as most do not expand... most of the time.


The standard 148gr full wadcutter is a pussycat when it comes to follow up shots, it produces excellent penetration, doesn't deflect as readily as RN/HP loads, and produces as much or better trauma (in real flesh) than even the most expensive wonder-gel bullets.

The above applies even more when the 2" barrel is attached to one of the modern lightweights so popular today.

If someone gets all emotionally worked up about having to have expansion, the only non +P load I've ever found that reliably expands (say at least 90% of the time) and still penetrates reliably is Winchesters 130gr Defend. It's what I use in my speed loaders/strips so I don't get lead all over myself & clothes. It's also a pussycat to shoot in the lightweights, not quite to the level of a 148gr full wadcutter but close enough.

Although most guys are too insecure to use it because of the stylized 'W' on the box.
Link Posted: 5/11/2017 12:41:25 AM EDT
[#26]
No love for the old school FBI load?
Link Posted: 5/11/2017 8:31:11 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
No love for the old school FBI load?
View Quote
Good stuff out of 4" revolvers, not any better than 148gr WC out of a 2"
Link Posted: 5/11/2017 12:12:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not really hate.  I just can't shoot them in my 442 and not flinch bad after a few rounds.
View Quote
To me...

A few (say five) rounds of +P carried in a CCW five shot revolver would seem like it'll be enough to "get me out/away from trouble."  I'm not suppose to be in it for a long drawn out battle.  I hope.   Or, I'll also need to carry more ammo to reload.  Humm...  Then again, I'm probably carrying the wrong firearm if I've thought about it that far ahead.  Cough, cough...

Anyway (I figure)...

Practice with non +P.   And, take a few shots (every once in a while) with +P just to familiarize myself in case I actually have to use it for SD one day.  When/if I choose to CCW with my S&W M60...I just load up with SD +P loads.  

If I actually had to fire in SD.   Well, after the first shot.....the "bad flinch" will be the least of my worries.

Aloha, Mark
Link Posted: 5/11/2017 3:54:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Well, I disagree.  I'd rather err on the side of accuracy and just choose a well penetrating load.   I never said any of it was optimal.  But 95% of my life is at home. I'm a homeschool Dad.  And 4% is doing things like taking my kids to piano and gymnastics.  And grocery shopping.  The other 1% is at Church.   Well, I do travel every once in a while.  But usually I've got a bigger gun near me.  Center console of the car.  

I'm not saying I'm NOT undergunned.  I'm saying I think I'm comfortable with my choice and my body type and my lifestyle.  I do need something for the I gotta go to a place I really don't want to and I want a gun with more ammo in it scenario.  I have a G26 that works.  But lately I'm not real crazy about that gun.  I got a stovepipe with it.  And it has really weak ejection the last round of every mag.....  

So I either want to get another J frame and do a NY reload.  Or something.....   I have a HiPower too that fits that scenario.  My other dilemma now is that I've totally gone to AIWB with the snubby because it feels so right and I don't want to go back to 4 oclock for anything.  LOL.
Link Posted: 5/11/2017 3:57:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


To me...

A few (say five) rounds of +P carried in a CCW five shot revolver would seem like it'll be enough to "get me out/away from trouble."  I'm not suppose to be in it for a long drawn out battle.  I hope.   Or, I'll also need to carry more ammo to reload.  Humm...  Then again, I'm probably carrying the wrong firearm if I've thought about it that far ahead.  Cough, cough...

Anyway (I figure)...

Practice with non +P.   And, take a few shots (every once in a while) with +P just to familiarize myself in case I actually have to use it for SD one day.  When/if I choose to CCW with my S&W M60...I just load up with SD +P loads.  

If I actually had to fire in SD.   Well, after the first shot.....the "bad flinch" will be the least of my worries.

Aloha, Mark
View Quote
Yeah I don't care what it looks like. As long as it works.  There is a site that sells ammo and has a blog and youtube vids called luckygunner.com and he recommends the Winchester train and defend.  He did ballistic gel testing.  

I do the same thing as you.  No lead in the pockets for reloads.  But I'm totally with you on that load out. I might pick both kinds of ammo up.  I need to find which wadcutter hits closest to POI in my gun.  Federal or Winchester.   Or maybe they'll be the same.

Plus I gotta get better about my sight picture when shooting fast.  For some reason when I'm trying to shoot fast with it, I don't get the front sight as far down in the notch as I should and I have a tenancy to let it stick up a bit.  And I shoot high right most of the time.  The right is probably from the heavy trigger.   It's not horrible but I'm trying to correct that to a better thing.  So it might not be the ammo.  But I do still hit high right a bit when even slow firing with many loads.


Oooops, I'm repeating myself.  Sorry guys.  Getting old.  Or just too much typing.  LOL.
Link Posted: 5/11/2017 7:19:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


To me...

A few (say five) rounds of +P carried in a CCW five shot revolver would seem like it'll be enough to "get me out/away from trouble."  I'm not suppose to be in it for a long drawn out battle.  I hope.   Or, I'll also need to carry more ammo to reload.  Humm...  Then again, I'm probably carrying the wrong firearm if I've thought about it that far ahead.  Cough, cough...

Anyway (I figure)...

Practice with non +P.   And, take a few shots (every once in a while) with +P just to familiarize myself in case I actually have to use it for SD one day.  When/if I choose to CCW with my S&W M60...I just load up with SD +P loads.  

If I actually had to fire in SD.   Well, after the first shot.....the "bad flinch" will be the least of my worries.

Aloha, Mark
View Quote
That sort of reasoning has gotten people killed and is why most police departments have mandated that duty and training ammunition be the same. This happened after a number of incident in late 60's and early 70's where officers trained and practiced with 38's but carried 357 on duty, when crunch time came they were not able to transition their skills to the more powerful loads and were often ineffective and even killed.

The most recognized incident was the 'Newhall massacre' and was the one that changed the CHPs weapon training standards regarding ammunition.

"Train as you fight, fight as you train"

What is the point of training with something other than what you will carry?
Do basketball players practice with a volleyball?
Do football teams practice against pee-wee leagues?
Do major league players practice with these......





And none of the above is even taking into account the 'negligible' difference in actual performance between non and +P as it relates to the disadvantages of the added recoil, blast, and flash.

But hey I guess if the added recoil, blast, and flash make you 'feel' more effective....well, carry whatever you like I guess.
Link Posted: 5/11/2017 7:23:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Yeah I don't care what it looks like. As long as it works.  There is a site that sells ammo and has a blog and youtube vids called luckygunner.com and he recommends the Winchester train and defend.  He did ballistic gel testing.  

I do the same thing as you.  No lead in the pockets for reloads.  But I'm totally with you on that load out. I might pick both kinds of ammo up.  I need to find which wadcutter hits closest to POI in my gun.  Federal or Winchester.   Or maybe they'll be the same.

Plus I gotta get better about my sight picture when shooting fast.  For some reason when I'm trying to shoot fast with it, I don't get the front sight as far down in the notch as I should and I have a tenancy to let it stick up a bit.  And I shoot high right most of the time.  The right is probably from the heavy trigger.   It's not horrible but I'm trying to correct that to a better thing.  So it might not be the ammo.  But I do still hit high right a bit when even slow firing with many loads.


Oooops, I'm repeating myself.  Sorry guys.  Getting old.  Or just too much typing.  LOL.
View Quote
Another advantage of Winchesters T&D is that the cheaper training ammunition is ballisticly matched to the more expensive HP load, specifically so you can train with the load you carry. No bad habits and more training per dollar, so it's a win/win.
Link Posted: 5/12/2017 1:44:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Winchester White Box 130 fmj does seem to have the best POI, from what I can tell, in my gun.  At present.  And seems to shoot fairly accurately.  Is that what you mean?   I didn't realize there were 2 different rounds.  I thought it was just 1 round.....  Or is it that they are trying to couple the defend ammo with the normal WWB 130 fmj?  

I'll have to look the stuff up.  I've never seen it on shelves.
Link Posted: 5/12/2017 8:03:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Winchester White Box 130 fmj does seem to have the best POI, from what I can tell, in my gun.  At present.  And seems to shoot fairly accurately.  Is that what you mean?   I didn't realize there were 2 different rounds.  I thought it was just 1 round.....  Or is it that they are trying to couple the defend ammo with the normal WWB 130 fmj?  

I'll have to look the stuff up.  I've never seen it on shelves.
View Quote
No not WWB
They introduced a line a few years ago of less expensive training ammunition that is ballisticly matched to a premium HP round. IME they produce the same velocity, felt recoil, and point of impact, that way you do not have to practice with the more expensive round.

It also seems that they really did their homework on these as the HP rounds seem to have some of the best expansion / penetration, not out of longer 'test barrels', but out of real world 'typical' self defense length barrels.

As I said above I've found their 38 Special 'defend' load to be the only one that will consistently expand and penetrate out of a 2" snub (and I'm even talking about +P). There very well may be others, but I'm not aware of them. Even the Buffalo Bore short barrel/soft lead load mentioned above does not typically expand out of a 2" barrel.

Note the Premium 'D' load on the left and the cheaper 'T' load on the right.
Many retailers are even offering a package deal where you get say one 25 round box of D to every two 50rd boxes of T, that sort of thing.
Link Posted: 5/13/2017 12:27:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:The standard 148gr full wadcutter is a pussycat when it comes to follow up shots, it produces excellent penetration, doesn't deflect as readily as RN/HP loads, and produces as much or better trauma (in real flesh) than even the most expensive wonder-gel bullets.

The above applies even more when the 2" barrel is attached to one of the modern lightweights so popular today.
View Quote
When I was teaching civilians qualification for CCW permits (after I retired from the LEO business) I always recommend the full wadcutter load for 2", J-frame revolvers. Particularly for women with small hands or older folks with weak grips, and for those with the ultra light J-frames. In the 10 years I ran my firearm training business I can't tell you the number of times a husband insisted his wife shoot +P 38 Specials, or heaven forbid 357 Magnums, in the J-frame S&W he "bought for her". And upon doing so the lady either dropped the gun in pain or just handed it back and said "I'm not doing this."

As stated already, the full wadcutter is mild in recoil, deadly accurate (even from a 2" barrel), penetrates well and cuts a full caliber size hole, which some un-expanded HPs will not do. They tend to act more like a RNL.

Dave
Link Posted: 5/13/2017 5:14:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


No not WWB
They introduced a line a few years ago of less expensive training ammunition that is ballisticly matched to a premium HP round. IME they produce the same velocity, felt recoil, and point of impact, that way you do not have to practice with the more expensive round.

It also seems that they really did their homework on these as the HP rounds seem to have some of the best expansion / penetration, not out of longer 'test barrels', but out of real world 'typical' self defense length barrels.

As I said above I've found their 38 Special 'defend' load to be the only one that will consistently expand and penetrate out of a 2" snub (and I'm even talking about +P). There very well may be others, but I'm not aware of them. Even the Buffalo Bore short barrel/soft lead load mentioned above does not typically expand out of a 2" barrel.

Note the Premium 'D' load on the left and the cheaper 'T' load on the right.
Many retailers are even offering a package deal where you get say one 25 round box of D to every two 50rd boxes of T, that sort of thing.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jM5wLHrcZ3I/VlNC4yD0yaI/AAAAAAAACOU/3jCHXWbQQ7E/s1600/P1050827.JPG
View Quote
Thank you!!!
Link Posted: 5/14/2017 6:39:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That sort of reasoning has gotten people killed and is why most police departments have mandated that duty and training ammunition be the same. This happened after a number of incident in late 60's and early 70's where officers trained and practiced with 38's but carried 357 on duty, when crunch time came they were not able to transition their skills to the more powerful loads and were often ineffective and even killed.

The most recognized incident was the 'Newhall massacre' and was the one that changed the CHPs weapon training standards regarding ammunition.

"Train as you fight, fight as you train"

What is the point of training with something other than what you will carry?
Do basketball players practice with a volleyball?
Do football teams practice against pee-wee leagues?
Do major league players practice with these......



http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/c_limit,w_680/fl_lossy,pg_1,q_auto/fow8ufyjgh6aeiklibcv.jpg

And none of the above is even taking into account the 'negligible' difference in actual performance between non and +P as it relates to the disadvantages of the added recoil, blast, and flash.

But hey I guess if the added recoil, blast, and flash make you 'feel' more effective....well, carry whatever you like I guess.
View Quote
If I had an unlimited budget.....I could agree.

And mind you, that I'm not talking about practice with a .38 Special loaded with a 148 grain lead wad cutter bullet over 2.8 grains of BE. Then, switching to a .357 Mag or a .38 Special w/158 grain lead semi-wad cutter hollow point FBI +P load for SD carry.

Anyway....yes.....if you can afford to practice with what you carry....go for it.

And, Dave_T also has a good point.

That all being said.....

Having known a bunch of LEOs.  Well IMHO....their opinions don't always account for a lot (nor does mine).  And, a lot of them (that I've known) didn't practice all that much either.  Note: NYPD (nope, never known the ones involved) and their recent incidents of X number of shots fired vs. how many hits that were actually achieved.  

For the record (at my Dept.)....qualifications were done with old carry ammo. There was no budget for practice ammo.  You were on your own for that.  I believe that the practice and carry with the same ammo, was more of a liability thing. So whatever.

Aloha, Mark
Link Posted: 6/3/2017 8:14:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Delete
Link Posted: 6/3/2017 8:15:57 AM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:
Won't that feel like shooting +p's?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Buffalo Bore
Std. Pressure 158gr. soft cast LSWCHP
Shoots dead on to J-frame fixed sights.
The soft lead HP flattens and expands very well with decent penetration.
Won't that feel like shooting +p's?
No, it feels just like shooting standard pressure 125gr Gold Dots. My 3rd favorite and go to load for my M36's followed by Hornady 158 grain XTP's. They all are standard pressure and have the same recoil impulse.
Link Posted: 6/4/2017 3:15:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Light guns are harder to shoot.   It takes a lot of practice to shoot a 2 incher.    I would say get a heavier revolver if the recoil bothers you.   A good one is the Ruger LCRx with the 3 inch barrel.

Or just get a G26 and a proper holster.
Link Posted: 6/4/2017 6:10:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Well standard pressure rounds don't bother me, recoil wise.  Although I'm still training to not flinch or more like anticipate.  But I have to do that with pretty much anything other than a .22.   But +p's in the airweight, too much.  But the 442 shoots really decent and I'm ok with using not the most optimum load for it.  

I would like to get a steel framed J frame.  


I have a G26.  It just doesn't conceal as easily and nicely as my 442.  So...  I carry the 442 mostly.  The G26 can be used if I really feel like I want more and can dress around it.  It conceals pretty well, but since I changed to AIWB for the revolver, I don't want to go back to 4 oclock.  Yet the G26 doesn't work so well for me AIWB.
Link Posted: 6/4/2017 7:14:53 PM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:
Light guns are harder to shoot.   It takes a lot of practice to shoot a 2 incher.    I would say get a heavier revolver if the recoil bothers you.   A good one is the Ruger LCRx with the 3 inch barrel.

Or just get a G26 and a proper holster.
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Revolvers have lot's of value in today's world, Clint Smith makes a great point here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/787855097912622/?multi_permalinks=1515295995168525¬if_t=group_activity¬if_id=1496431258008059
Link Posted: 6/4/2017 8:34:54 PM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:
Buffalo Bore
Std. Pressure 158gr. soft cast LSWCHP
Shoots dead on to J-frame fixed sights.
The soft lead HP flattens and expands very well with decent penetration.
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This load most closely mimics the venerable "FBI Load" OP. I carry the same in my "J" frames and Colt "Agent"... Another good load is the Remington Golden Sabre 125 grain loads if you can find them. Gold Dot standard pressure 125 grains are good too. If you are looking for penetration then not much is going to beat Buffalo Bore's 150 grain Hard Cast Wad Cutters... A couple or three of those to the pelvis will put the big hurt on a perp for sure... Lastly, Hornady's 158 grain XTP's and also their 110 grain FTX loads are pretty damned good and are accurate as well. You have quite a few Non +P options with the .38Spec Snub...
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 8:09:50 PM EDT
[#44]
I bought 500 rounds of this (and paid slightly more than $150/500) a little while ago:

https://www.cdnnsports.com/38spl-p-130gr-bonded-hp-winchester-ranger-box-50.html?___SID=U#.WTXvP9zdmM8


Premium bonded JHP, for plinking ammo prices. Yes, it's +P, but I find it to be slightly less snappy than the 135gr Gold Dot load. It clocked around 875 fps from my 442 Pro. Expanded fairly well in water jugs as well, with decent penetration( yes, this isn't scientific). It loads smoothly from speed strips, or Safariland Comp-I's. Some folks were reporting QC issues ( inconsistent seating depths, mostly) with RA38B... but I checked several boxes of what I got from CDNN, and didn't find any problems with mine. I don't know where other folks were getting theirs from.


For practice, I loaded up a bunch of Precision Delta wadcutters in Starline brass with W-231... I wouldn't feel too bad carrying these in a pinch. They do have a bit less recoil than the Ranger stuff. FWIW... Midway USA has the Federal Gold Medal Match wadcutter load in stock right now. They usually sell out fast.

Link Posted: 6/18/2017 1:21:49 PM EDT
[#45]
I would (and do) load the first cylinder full of Wadcutters, then run a good short barrel JHP load for your speed strip. I am down to my last partial boxes of Fed Nyclads and Silvertips.


The 148 Grain Wadcutters shoot to the sights on my old 442

Link Posted: 6/18/2017 3:18:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Looks like some honest wear.  You like the laser?  I'm not too keen yet.  Maybe someday.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 4:02:34 PM EDT
[#47]
If you must use the wadcutters, get the Buffalo Bore.   They are loded to standard pressures and have a hard cast bullet.

The CorBon 110 gr +P JHP is a good load for a 2 incher.   Velocity is critical with a 38 Special.  

If you get into a gunfight, you probably wont notice the recoil.   Practice with the 1/2 pressure target wadcutters and keep the +P light JHPs in the revolver for carry and reload.

I find the Diamond grips from Pachmayr make a big differnce in recoil with the J frames.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 6:44:32 PM EDT
[#48]
Lots of good loads mentioned in this thread. I agree with the poster that recommended the BB 150grain wad cutters. Those hit hard and penetrate deep! I should have picked up a couple more boxes as to save on the shipping costs...
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 11:48:23 PM EDT
[#49]
buffalo bore 148gr hard cast wadcutter - make something similar yourself with 3.5gr Bulleyes and rimrock hard cast WC(same as used by BB) - full caliber hole

Jeff
Link Posted: 6/19/2017 3:36:03 PM EDT
[#50]
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Quoted:
Looks like some honest wear.  You like the laser?  I'm not too keen yet.  Maybe someday.
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The laser is a very significant advantage in anything but bright sunlight. In bright sunlight, regular irons are faster to pick up.  Plus with the laser you can focus on the threat, rather than taking your eyes off of it, which helps with moving targets.

As far as the wear, the gun was a gift for graduating an advanced academy 17 years ago, and rode on an ankle, then when I went to detectives, rode in my off side pocket for years.

Here are some 10 yard groups, and as you can see they start to open up with the irons, but still fairly tight with the laser. Both are still decent enough to get most jobs done with a snubby.

Again speaking of wear, it shows I need to put a little more of my wife's fingernail polish on the front sight.




Reference lasers and moving targets: Running jacks make great practice. I was actually out using a 4" K frame but decided to try my hand with this old nickle plated NYPD 442. The laser was a big asset tracking the jacks as they ran through the brush.

They are pretty darn hard to hit with a pistol, and I missed more than I hit, but after I figured how far to lead them, I started to connect.


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