I came into a model 60 (that my gut told me I'm I'm selling) at the same time as I'm shopping for a new pocket gun and I'm asking myself why shop.

Ok the hammer is the exactly my thing but I can have it shaved down.

So what would steer me to the newer gun?   Can the classic take +p?

Generally they say no plus p in a 60. However I would have no problem carrying plus p in a 60. I just wouldn't make it a habit of shooting them for practice.

Plus p in a 60 is fine but this horse is dead no one these days shoots plus p every time they practice, and the box a month plus 5 you carry you might wear a 60 out in about 80 years. I carry the blued equivalent ( model 36 made in the 1960's) and never had the hammer snag anything when drawing from pocket ankle or belt. As a general rule almost every older smith will be smoother and better finished than the modern ones

So who Bobs hammers for not a billion dollars.


Their competition is my Dremel.

Let's clarify several things.

1) The Model 60 got the stronger J-magnum frame in April 1996 and any Model 60 after that date is good to go with even a steady diet of .38+ P.

2) Some people do in fact practice with .38 +P loads.

3) The 1996 Model 60-9 and -10 were chambered in .357 Magnum:

60-9, 2 1/8" barrel, fixed sights
60-10, 3" barrel, adjustable sights

4) The 1996 Model 60-11, -12 and -13 continued to be .38 Special only revolvers, but were rated for .38 +P:

60-11, 2 1/8" barrel, fixed sights, .38 Special
60-12, 3" barrel, fixed sights, .38 Special
60-13, 3" barrel, adjustable sights, .38 Special


5) In 2001 the Model 60 got an internal lock with the following models

60-14 Lady Smith, 2 1/8", fixed sights, .357 Mag,
60-15 Target 3",  adjustable sights, .357 Mag,
60-16 2 1/8" fixed sights, .38 Special,
60-17 Target, 3", adjustable sights, .38 Special, and beginning in 2005,
60-18 Target 5", adjustable sights, .357 Mag.


6) The blued steel 1 7/8"  Model 36-9 got the J Magnum frame in August 1996 and was marked for .38 +P loads.

7) In 2001 the Model 36 got the internal lock as the 36-10, still with a 1 7/8" barrel.

-----

I've never had the hammer on a Model 36 or a Model 60 snag.  It's IMHO one of those massively over blown non existent problems.  As all steel pistols they are a bit heavy for pocket carry, and for pocket carry purposes you want to stay with the 1 7/8" to 2 1/8" barrel versions.  

However, for IWB carry the all steel Model 36 and Model 60 are fine, and the 3" Model 60s carry just as well as the 1 7/8" or 2 1/8" revolvers.  With the extra weight, they also shot much better and are capable of very good accuracy.

Short story is that if you're planning to ruin a perfectly good model 60 by bobbing the hammer, just do it a favor and trade it on on something else more to your liking.

If you're inclined toward pocket carry you'll want a lighter revolver anyway.  Consider one of the aluminum framed S&W J frame revolvers - and use a pocket holster.   You won't shoot it much, but you won't be screwing up a decent Model 60 either.  

If you are inclined toward IWB carry, then just keep the Model 60, but leave the hammer alone.   Bobbing the hammer serves zero purpose and will accomplish nothing other than reducing the value of your revolver.

Get a 649 and have it both ways.

We can break this down with a simple analogy.


Can a Geo Metro go 95mph? Yes, it can. Is it good for the car to go everywhere at 95mph? No. Will the car break down faster if you only drive 95mph? Yes.



Exact same thing with any model number Smith and Wesson revolver. If your revolver is chambered for .38 Spl and has a model number, it will not have catastrophic failure from running +P ammo. If you choose to shoot it 10k times with hot +P, you will have problems, the gun will wear out faster, but putting three-five cylinders of +P through it every week, will not ruin it.

If you email S&W 5 different times, you will get 5 different answers. One person will say No! Never +P, another will say its fine in model-X, etc etc etc. The bottom line is, you can shoot it, it'll be fine, just don't go crazy.

The Model 66 has so many wild accusations about being unable to shoot .357 Magnum, and that came from only a very small handful of reports of police guns shooting thousands and thousands of HOT .357 magnum ammo. Again, the problem comes down to people running them a LOT.


S&W did say at one point, anything with a model number, is fine with +P. I'm sure in todays sue-friendly world they've recanted that, but it was said .

All I know is you get an epic fail chapperjoe for not posting pics.  Smack upside the head.  

I personally don't think +p's are necessary.  But then again, there is no load that meets the arfcom list of viable self defense ammo that aren't Plus P.  I don't think.  But there are plenty of choices that will penetrate past 14" consistently.  Well, from what I can tell.   They just don't usually open up as much, if at all.  I load 158 LRN in the gun and then my reloads are 125 grain Hornady XTP of some flavor.  American gunner or Critical Defense.  They do make a 158 grain XTP load too.  They don't usually open up much from a short barrel though.  But they tend to penetrate well.  And for me, that's good enough.

This is just all from watching too many youtube videos gel tests.  

But my thing is I really don't like shooting Plus P's through my 442.  It induces a flinch right quick on me.  I have to work at just standard pressure not doing it.  Although a steel frame might make a difference.

the model60-7 has a heat treated cylinder & is +P rated.

If you're really worried about the hammer and you're not attached to the gun, which it doesn't sound like you are, why not sell it and buy a no-lock 442/642.  S&W makes runs of them without the lock and they are rated for +P rounds; you can usually find them for under $400 (ex. Bud's list them for $389 right now).  The Speer short barrel 135gr +P rounds usually do well in ballistics gel testing from the videos I've watched and it's what a lot of folks choose to carry.

I'm gonna keep it.

Ordered a shadow holster already.  And a vg1 type as well.  Have a nemisis already.

It never occured to me to try to pocket a hammered revolver, I just always thought it wasn't possible.  I carried a hammerless 642 for a while in my pocket just because I heard that hammers  get caught.  I'll report back.  It's my rarest form of carry, maybe once a week for a minute taking the garbage out.  And really even then I have time to snap on the shadow.  But once in a while I'll find myself with no other option thinking I really want a pocket gun again .   That's where this will come in. (Until the g43 comes!)

The revolver does have sentimental value to me.  Belongs to someone special and I decided I do want to keep it in the family.

Attached File

I've got a 60-7 and absolutely love it. Unfortunately, I bought it with a bobbed hammer but otherwise is very tight. I have a thing for older S&W revolvers and I wouldn't bob the hammer, just find a hammer less model. Like was posted earlier, I don't think you'll have trouble with the hammer getting in the way, just use a good holster. Enjoy your model 60!

That's hot.  Thanks for the pic.  Good thing I had a laptop, I even looked at it right side up.    I wouldn't let that go either.  Even if it DIDN'T carry family value.  But since it does......

Sorry uploading from Google photos to arfkom mobile gets freaky.

I need to find some good carry grips.  I love the full grip it has now for the range,  but not conducive to my modes of carry and alittle overkill for the piece I think.  

Also upon inspection I believe the gun to be new, and barely fired if at all.

Sweet trigger in both operations.

Here are the internal markings.

Attached File

"S&W did say at one point, anything with a model number, is fine with +P. I'm sure in todays sue-friendly world they've recanted that, but it was said."

In light of the above statement what is the consensus here about shooting 15-20 rounds of .38 +P's a year out of my model 36 and using them as everyday carry rounds?

You're fine. You can put 50 rounds of +P through the gun every range trip for 20 years, and you'll be fine.

I've heard that statement before, re model numbers.


Mine looks to be a no dash as well.

I'm wondering what the markings mean.

Assembly numbers. They are used to make sure the right parts are put on the right frame as it moves through the assembly process. Their are other stamps that indicate other stuff. You'll notice if you pull off the stocks that the numbers should match what's on the crane.

Long ago Smith used to put the SN on the frame, barrel, and extractor star to keep the parts together.



ETA: The other markings are likely assembler identifiers, or inspector identifiers. The S iirc means it's Stainless, you should have the same S under the stocks. Just one other I know off the top of my head is the star stamp, this indicates it went back to Smith and had factory work, or a refinish done.

I have Model 60 no dash also, I think I got it in the early-mid 80's. I bought an extra hammer and dremeled the spur off of that one and put the original hammer away someplace,I hope I can find it.

I'm using the Hogue Bantam rubber grips, compact and comfortable to shoot. If you're using it for pocket carry the rubber might be too sticky, wood grips might be better.

The weight of the steel frame makes the gun a little easier to shoot, I also have an alloy Taurus snubby that kicks a bit more but is great to carry.

About a decade ago when I was into single action autos , I would get VZ grips for all my 1911s.

I see they make j frame grips.i see they cost the better part of a Franklin.


Holy cow.

I'm going Uncle Mike's bantam clone probably.   Might get those VZ grips at another date.

Hogue grips are great but catch too much for CCW.

Full markings. Attached File


Attached File

My Model 60 has the same 7583 on the right side of the grip frame like yours, but the other numbers are different.
What is your serial number range ? Mine is R321XXX

I used to carry the gun with the stock grips and a Tyler T grip, very compact, but I switched to the Hogues because the wooden grips were getting too beat up.

Looks like 75635?

The serial number is on the bottom of the butt, mine is R321XXX ( I x'd out the last 3 digits of the serial number).

The 75635 should be the same number stamped on the crane.

I use the hogue Tamer.  The butt of it is hard plastic but the rest is rubber.  I think the fact that the butt is plastic really helps your shirt to glide over it.  I'm sure the rubber catches some, but I don't really feel like it's any worse than if I'm wearing a Glock.   When wearing IWB at 400 oclock, I'm always pulling my shirt down over either gun.  Any gun I carry there.  But the J frame is by far the easiest and does this less.  

They are really comfortable to shoot and I get a full grip that feels very natural to me.  When I've had boot grips on there, I don' know where to put my right thumb.  I'd practically have to break it to fold it down for a firing grip.  I do that now, but because the backstrap has extra meat on it, there is more room and it's not as awkward to fold down.  I've seen Clint Smith run his right thumb right under the cylinder but that makes me really nervous about the tip of the thumb ending up too close to the front of the cylinder under stress.   And the gasses can do damage up there.  

Shooting revolvers I use thumb over thumbnail.

Yes, I've heard that (sue-happy or not)......I see no problem with it.

Practice with standard loads.   Use some +P when you want to up your practice a bit.  And, carry +P when you're serious about using your J frame as a CCW.   Assuming, that you're limited to .38 Special.

But, having said that.....maybe you'll feel better after reading this?

http://hipowersandhandguns.com/Part2%20S&W%20Airweight%20JFrames-Do%20They%20Last.htm

Aloha, Mark

Here is where the model stamp can be found.



This is a S&W Mod 60 (no dash). It was my off duty revolver. Note: the pinned barrel.  I also filed the frt sight down to suit me.

Aloha, Mark

Thanks for the link buddy, unfortunately I cannot get it to open....<><....:(

OP,

The simple thing to do if you wanted a snag free gun, yet did not want to bugger up your gun's original configuration would be to buy an extra hammer.

Bob the spur off of extra hammer and install it.

Put the original hammer away in a safe place.

here is my "classic" model 60, born in 1969. I had it engraved for just for me. I will never sell it. It is my carry gun along with a Charter Arms 44 spl Bulldog.

Not quite. What they DID say was anything with a "dash" after the model was GTG for a moderate diet of +P.

Wrong.


If that was the case then the model 10-1 could take +P in 1959, but the Model 60-? couldn't take place until (realistically, since -1 through -2 were limited/special runs) 1988.


What Smith and Wesson DOES say, is that +P should not be used in K-frames manufacturered prior to 1958, which can be identified by a lack of model number.

If you wanted to get REALLY picky, you could say that the 29 shouldn't use heavy .44 Magnum ammo until at least the -3E or beyond, and if someone were to believe you're statement, they'd think they could put their +P Buffalo Bore .44 Magnum through a 29-1, since it has a dash. Granted, the revolver will handle it, for a while, before getting battered to death.

I took care of my concerns about J frame Smiths  by buying several.  Here are my most recent purchases.

Attached File


Yes, they are dirty (I shot them this morning), and yes they are loaded (one is a bedside gun, and the other my computer desk gun). My neighbor has threatened my life so I am either armed or have guns within arms reach at all times.

Top one is a 642-2 loaded with WW factory ammo.

Bottom one is a 60-9 357 magnum. loaded with WW factory ammo also.

In addition I have a 3" model 60 with adjustable sights and a full lug barrel as well as  317 with 3" barrel for the wife (she hates centerfire revolvers).

You can blow them up with hot loads however

Attached File


I had developed a 195 grain cast bullet load load for my Ruger 77/357 and I thought it would be okay in the Smith I was wrong Smith and Wesson did give me a discounted price on a replacement when I sent it in and asked them to replace the frame.

Since then I use factory ammo only or mild loads of 5 grains of unique behind whatever 125 grain bullet mold I am working with that day.

Smith was speaking ONLY of the J-frames, not the K-frames regarding the dash models & +P ammo.

But thanks for caring enough to post.  

Where does S&W list this information? When you read the new manual it states exactly what I mentioned above, I would love to see where Smith and Wesson says it's safe to run +P ammo in a J-frame with a dash (let's say the 36-1), which was manufactured before +P ammo was even a thing.

I don't recall where I read it, whether it was in one of my J-frame owner's manuals or somewhere else such as American Handgunner.

I did find this in a brief search on-line @ S&W dot com. For some odd reason, it neglects to mention J-frames at all.

I also sent a request to S&W specifically asking about J-frames & +P ammo. I will post what they tell me as soon as I get it.

Well, as it turns out, *I* was wrong. This is what S&W wrote to me.

Interesting. The J-Magnum frame was introduced mid-96.

I wonder if that's what they base the +P rating on.

No comment, other than I work up my .357 magnum loads slowly in J and K frame revolvers and stop when the cases stop dropping free on their own, regardless of what the load data says, or the absence of other pressure signs.  

They last longer that way...

Wouldn't that be like .38 pressure?  My cases never drop free.  .38 special I mean.

I think he means they eject freely. As in you don't have to bash the ejector rod against the bench to eject the brass.

When loading max for a revolver you load up until the extraction gets sticky, then back off 1gr, that's the max load for that bullet/powder combo in that particular gun.

Aaah that makes sense.

I have a cherry 60-3. I carry it at home in appendix position with the original service grips. The hammer never presents an issue when drawing.

I like it more than my other j frames because of the worry free finish, slight heft, and good looks. It shoots like a dream and handles hot rounds a little better than it's lighter siblings.

http://imgur.com/VzUXBGu

Dont cut the hammer on that classic.

You can't go wrong with an older stainless model 60 or a newer scandium model 360J.

Attached File

Another vote for NOT bobbing the hammer

Couldn't he get a second hammer and have it bobbed and installed?    I'm no expert but when I practice drawing with my Colt DS from AIWB it snags sometimes.  I'm guessing I'm not pulling my shirt up enough but in a real situation seems like the less issues might come up the better.  Seeins how stress makes us do weird things.

My daily carry Smith is a 442 Pro Cenntenial Airweight, carried in a pocket.  I've had owned two Model 60s in the past.  First a 1 7/8" SQUARE Butt that my mother still has and the other a police trade in from the Kentucky State Police with their logo on the side plate.  Wish I had kept the KSP gun as it was a great fishing gun along the creeks there.  KSP issued those as back up ankle guns.


CD

Do you carry it in your dominant hand pocket?  What holster do you use?

double tap