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Posted: 1/7/2017 4:30:51 AM EDT
I'm fixing to be in the market for a new hunting revolver because my dad keeps making a big deal that I need to give his back to him (what do you expect when you let someone borrow a sixgun that shoots that good? ). I'm going to get a Model 29, and while I was dead set on one that's pinned and recessed, if I remember right they didn't start putting the endurance package on them until the -3s or -4s, and to keep my accuracy up at 50-100 yards without a scope it's going to be shot quite a bit. So I was thinking if I'm going to get a non P&R gun I might as well get a new one. I know one of the biggest complaints people have about new Smiths is they have a 2 piece barrel, but isn't that what made Dan Wessons so accurate? I would rather have a pistol without the lock and the MIM parts, but if they are more accurate I can live with the MIM parts and get rid of the lock.
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 5:47:59 AM EDT
[#1]
Some of the new Smiths have a 2 piece barrel, but not all.  I'm not sure they even make a model 29 any more, except for the classic series. If you're going to put a scope on it, you'll want to figure out when they started drilling and tapping under the rear sight.

If I were in your shoes I'd look for a model 29/629 classic with a 6 1/2 or 8 3/8 inch barrel. I might even consider a Redhawk.
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 6:21:17 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Some of the new Smiths have a 2 piece barrel, but not all.  I'm not sure they even make a model 29 any more, except for the classic series. If you're going to put a scope on it, you'll want to figure out when they started drilling and tapping under the rear sight.

If I were in your shoes I'd look for a model 29/629 classic with a 6 1/2 or 8 3/8 inch barrel. I might even consider a Redhawk.
View Quote


My vote would be for a Redhawk or even Super Redhawk. I am a big fan of the Ruger single actions myself, so for me, I would be looking at one of the Super Blackhawk Hunter models.......

PS;

Love your avatar OP.......very fitting for this topic!
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 7:16:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Hunting revolver lots of heavy loads, Redhawk.  Casual shooting heavy  loads once in a while model 29, or just to be different model 57 with the 6&1/2 inchs.   Others will chime in with their opinions as well.  But your not getting any younger and at some point you may want a scope on which ever bad boy you choose.   Then again get both.
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 10:17:55 AM EDT
[#4]
Super redhawk.....
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 10:19:38 AM EDT
[#5]
My new 5" M629 is very accurate. MIM is a non issue because it has been successfully used on a variety of firearms ( including the AR) for decades. The lock sucks, but only for principal reasons as it doesnt affect function. S&W N frame guns are sexy, but get the latest production for max durability. Even then, unless you are hunting buffalo, the is rarely a need to push the 44 mag to get the job done.
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 11:37:03 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:


My vote would be for a Redhawk or even Super Redhawk. I am a big fan of the Ruger single actions myself, so for me, I would be looking at one of the Super Blackhawk Hunter models.......

PS;

Love your avatar OP.......very fitting for this topic!
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Some of the new Smiths have a 2 piece barrel, but not all.  I'm not sure they even make a model 29 any more, except for the classic series. If you're going to put a scope on it, you'll want to figure out when they started drilling and tapping under the rear sight.

If I were in your shoes I'd look for a model 29/629 classic with a 6 1/2 or 8 3/8 inch barrel. I might even consider a Redhawk.


My vote would be for a Redhawk or even Super Redhawk. I am a big fan of the Ruger single actions myself, so for me, I would be looking at one of the Super Blackhawk Hunter models.......

PS;

Love your avatar OP.......very fitting for this topic!




Was going to post this.  SRH would be perfect.  Plus you can shoot much hotter loads in it than the Smith.
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 12:20:44 PM EDT
[#7]
The best smiths are the -4 629 and -5 29's. with the 4's 629's being the best. All the 4's are d&t. Something to think about if you are looking at the differences between the s&w and the ruger.

Anyone that say that a s&w from the 90's and up can't hold up to constant full house loads is full of it. Same goes for the gp100 vs a 686, not only will the smiths shoot side by side with them they will be more accurate. Bought a used 629-4 classic with a 6 1/2" bbl a decade ago, can't even tell you how many 1000's of the lee 310gr/21.5gr 296 loads I've shot in it. Let along countless 1000's of other cast/jacketed 44mag loads. I actually still use that beater 629-4 for 25yd nra bulleye from time to time. Ya a beat up truck gun of a s&w 629 that's been shot hard since the 90's and is still capable of not only competing in nra bullseye events. It's good enough to win them.
A 25yd bullseye load for a old 629-4 with countless rounds down the tube.


A ruger couldn't do that when it is new let alone after 20,000+ rounds down the tube. The s&w has a better trigger, is more accurate and will easily last your life time.

I'm actually impressed anyone would even want a revolver with recessed cylinders, let alone a hunting revolver. Just something else to clean along with something else that fails. Recessed cylinders are a throwback from an earlier age. Cases weren't made as strong as they are today with the modern web design. The recessed cylinder supported the old style cases where they were the weakest, namely the web/head area of a case.
A modern case (left) next to the old style balloon headed cases (right) that needed the recessed cylinder support.


A always love the MIM parts questions. Glad to see there's a huge difference between a MIM part and a forged part. A forged part is nothing more than cast metal. Either if done correctly will be more than able to stand up to typical firearms wear. The big differences in MIM vs forged:
$$$$, setting up to make MIM parts is extremely expensive, investment casting on the other hand is dirt cheap in comparrison.
The people that put the firearms together. MIM parts hold extremely tight tolerances, investment casting on the other hand. Not so much, the casting takes a lot more had fitting to get a good product.
Hence the shit trigger on the rugers coupled with the gritty timing and lockups.
Most people complain about MIM parts and don't even realize ruger has been using MIM parts for 6/7 years now on some of their revolvers. Make no mistake about, they will be using more in the future.
Hell the plastic glocks are loaded with MIM parts and it's nothing to see ranges that rent them have huge round counts in them or the mass of 10,000 or 20,000 round endurance tests out there on the innerweb.

Myself, I like MIM parts, they are extremely consistent from part to part. This makes for a consistent firearm. It takes the hand fitting (one of a kind) how good the person is doing the fitting, can I make this part fit/work thing out of play. Consistent triggers, consistent lockups consistent timing? Na, I'd rather have a hand fitted revolver with cast parts. Well how much hand fitting do you think you're going to get for $750?

2 piece bbl's are another thing I don't get that shooters are complaining about. Yup, it's terrible to have a stress free bbl that is also tension free that has no thread lock from over tightening it that causes bbl constriction at the threads. 2 piece bbl's that are made with the ECM process are sweet!!! The real problem with the new s&w ECM 2 piece bbl's is they can actually be too smooth.

I'd be taking a good hard look at the s&w's they cost more but they are worth every penny. I have yet to see a ruger double action revolver that could keep up with the modern s&w's endurance & performance.
I'd put that 629-4 up against any redhawk. I bought it used and know I have 20,000+ hot 44mag loads down the tube & that ain't counting the target loads. And it will still hold the x-ring on nra targets.

Don't believe all the urban legend/innerweb myth. You the old noodle
Do you really think people thought about it and said, I'm going to shoot 100,000+ full house rounds thru this revolver. So they went out and bought a ruger redhawk??? Really!! How about $$$ was the driving force. 30+ years ago shooters bought blackhawks (single action revolver) for silhouettes. They were about the only revolver back then that could take the constant pounding of the heavy loads. They were also extremely cheap, the dw's more than held their own but cost about twice as much. If you bother to look at the silhouette world today it's dominated by freedom arms. It isn't that the blackhawks aren't strong enough, it's a matter of $$$. You get what you pay for and the fa's are extremely accurate as they should be considering they are twice the price of a bh.

You want a utilitatian revolver the redhawks your spotted puppy. But with the odd grip angle people like Miculek make comments like if your support wrist doesn't hurt as much as your shooting hand, you're doing something wrong. The other thing you should really keep in mind is the sights on either gun suck!!!! The longer the bbl the more they suck!!! Both use a 1/8" front sight and the ruger uses a .143" notch and the s&w uses a .146" notch. While this 1 size fits all is good for close range targets it doesn't do much for targets at distances or trying to hit small targets/bullseyes. 1st thing we did to get any real accuracy of of any revolver when shooting silhouettes was to change out the rear sight. Typically a .110" notch is for target work & the .14x" notches are for speed.

The difference between a .146" rear notch and a .110" rear notch on a revolver with a 9 1/2" sight radius in 12 MOA @ 100yds. That's huge!!! Something to think about when hunting at long range with a revolver.
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 12:24:03 PM EDT
[#8]
The new production Smith N frames are good  guns but are not more accurate or stronger than the late pre lock versions wit the endurance package. To my eye the new N frames are ugly and lack the classic lines of the older ones.

I would buy a Ruger .44 over a new Smith unless you want blued steel which you can get with the Smith classic series (4 or 6" standard barrel only).

The reason the Dan Wesson revolvers were so accurate was the tensioned barrel.

Smith never used two piece barres on the N frame .44 .

Myself I shoot and collect the pre lock/mim Smith 44's with the full endurance package. Look for a 629-3 or -4 or in blued the 29-5 or -6 (all full endurance package).

Also nothing wrong with a 629-5 as it has the mim parts and frame mounted firing pin but not the lock.
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 12:25:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Get a P&R Model 29 if you really want it. Unless you shoot silhouette matches with it you'll be fine.

Here's a good long read on the 29:
John Taffin on the Model 29
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 12:26:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Totally rambling S&W fanboy:

SAAMI is there for a reason.  A S&W will over it life time shoot as much max SAAMI pressure ammunition as the Ruger.  If you're going to hot-rod above SAAMI when have at it, I have seen as many Rugers do a grenade impersonation as any other revolvers.

44 Magnum loaded near SAAMI maximum pressure will kill anything here in North America.  There is no reason to hot-rod 44 Mag IMHO

A S&W trigger after a professional trigger job is probably one of the sweeter triggers going, single action or double action.  Ruger can have a nice trigger but I have yet to see a Ruger turn out as well as a S&W in the trigger department.

MIM parts (assuming it's not Taurus doing it) are superb.  The MIM parts are dimensionally far more consistent than the old forged parts and far more cost effective than machined from billet or forged.  Modern MIM process results in parts with 90-95% the material properties of billet and this generation of engineers knows this and designs to take advantage of the dimensional consistency and designs for the well known material properties.  If it's a critical part, MIM parts can be HIP'ed (Hot Isostatic Pressure) and it would hard to distinguish that the material properties of the MIM-HIP part from a forged part.  Most of the guys doing action work on S&W would rather do it on the new MIM guns simply due to the consistency of the parts.

I have never understood the draw to the Pinned and Recessed guns.  If you saw how much torque it take to seat a barrel on a frame you would realize the pins were a complete overkill.  Recessed cylinder always seemed  like a jam waiting to happen.  Another crevice to get some debris trapped in/under a case and then cause a cartridge to sit high and rub the recoil face.

S&W still list the 4 inch and 6.5 inch Model 29 on their updated website.  Personally if I was buying a 44 Mag it would be a 629 5-inch but I hate square frames and love stainless N-frames.  But I am pretty sure they are still making a version of the Model 29 with the square frame.

I think the only S&W with two piece barrels are the new Model 66 and Model 69 (L-frame in 357 and 44) and some of the scandium framed models.

Rambling
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 12:29:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Now you're going to have to compile all the responses on the various forums you're posting this question on.  I've read it on three or four already! So many opinions out there :)
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 12:32:15 PM EDT
[#12]
All modern Smith  revolvers are round butt except the blued classic series.
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 2:16:05 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
Hunting revolver lots of heavy loads, Redhawk.  Casual shooting heavy  loads once in a while model 29, or just to be different model 57 with the 6&1/2 inchs.   Others will chime in with their opinions as well.  But your not getting any younger and at some point you may want a scope on which ever bad boy you choose.   Then again get both.
View Quote


It's not going to be that heavy of a load. I'm trying to kill this, not an elk or bear.





I would be getting a M57 like my dad's, and I still might, but I want to get a gun that I don't have to either special order or load the ammunition for it.
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 3:20:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Then get a 629 and enjoy it.  If you want lighter, a 329pd.....just keep in mind it's a 25oz 44mag.  For comparison, a 4" 629 is almost 40oz.

Like others have said, the main benefit to the Ruger is that you can load hot loads for them.  If you don't need hot loads (above SAMMI), then the S&W product is superior.  They are also lighter when comparing steel to steel......and if you are hunting, that's a good thing.

I'm seriously considering picking up a 329pd in order to keep my .44mag but not have to carry the fat-ass of a gun my 4" 629 is when I'm hiking.  
Link Posted: 1/7/2017 6:20:02 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
Super redhawk.....
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Yep
Link Posted: 1/8/2017 1:20:15 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Then get a 629 and enjoy it.  If you want lighter, a 329pd.....just keep in mind it's a 25oz 44mag.  For comparison, a 4" 629 is almost 40oz.

Like others have said, the main benefit to the Ruger is that you can load hot loads for them.  If you don't need hot loads (above SAMMI), then the S&W product is superior.  They are also lighter when comparing steel to steel......and if you are hunting, that's a good thing.

I'm seriously considering picking up a 329pd in order to keep my .44mag but not have to carry the fat-ass of a gun my 4" 629 is when I'm hiking.  
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Quoted:
Then get a 629 and enjoy it.  If you want lighter, a 329pd.....just keep in mind it's a 25oz 44mag.  For comparison, a 4" 629 is almost 40oz.

Like others have said, the main benefit to the Ruger is that you can load hot loads for them.  If you don't need hot loads (above SAMMI), then the S&W product is superior.  They are also lighter when comparing steel to steel......and if you are hunting, that's a good thing.

I'm seriously considering picking up a 329pd in order to keep my .44mag but not have to carry the fat-ass of a gun my 4" 629 is when I'm hiking.  


FIFY, I can't stand stainless guns.

While I know the Redhawk can handle a lot hotter loads than the Smith can, if I needed something hotter than a regular 44 magnum I would be getting a Blackhawk in 45 Colt.

I already have my mind made up that I'm getting a Model 29, I was just curious about the whole 2 piece barrel thing and whether I should be getting one with the endurance package since I'm planning to shoot the shit out of it.

Quoted:
Now you're going to have to compile all the responses on the various forums you're posting this question on.  I've read it on three or four already! So many opinions out there :)


I know, I'm starting to type on replies to posts on the wrong forums.
Link Posted: 1/8/2017 2:54:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I know one of the biggest complaints people have about new Smiths is they have a 2 piece barrel, but isn't that what made Dan Wessons so accurate?.
View Quote


The Dan Wesson's barrels were under tension.  

For hunting, I'd skip the Smith and find a nice used Dan instead.
Link Posted: 1/8/2017 10:56:55 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:


FIFY, I can't stand stainless guns.

While I know the Redhawk can handle a lot hotter loads than the Smith can, if I needed something hotter than a regular 44 magnum I would be getting a Blackhawk in 45 Colt.

I already have my mind made up that I'm getting a Model 29, I was just curious about the whole 2 piece barrel thing and whether I should be getting one with the endurance package since I'm planning to shoot the shit out of it.



I know, I'm starting to type on replies to posts on the wrong forums.
View Quote
In reality, the 2 piece barrel is probably an improvement in accuracy as it provides more uniform tension on the barrel.  Also, like the poster above said.....DW revolvers are 2 piece barrels under tension, and people seem to think DW revolvers are the bees knees (I've never shot one but I know their reputation is very good).  And yes to the endurance package.  Might not need it but it's not going to hurt you if you don't.

I'm also a huge fan of blued guns, they are very sexy.  I buy stainless revolvers because I use them in the woods and I am willing to deal with a silver gun in order to not deal with rust due to condensation from temp fluctuations, dew in the morning, rain and snow.  Range only gun.....blued is fine.  You may not have the same considerations, however.
Link Posted: 1/8/2017 5:17:28 PM EDT
[#19]
This

Link Posted: 1/8/2017 6:59:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter.    Whenever I'm filthy rich, I'm going to pick up two of these, and have one redone in .357 magnum.  


Link Posted: 1/8/2017 7:06:31 PM EDT
[#21]
It's a shooter

The hunter models are set up for an optic
Link Posted: 1/8/2017 7:06:50 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
While I know the Redhawk can handle a lot hotter loads than the Smith can, if I needed something hotter than a regular 44 magnum I would be getting a Blackhawk in 45 Colt.
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Probably not a bad plan. Blackhawks are out there for good prices.

I'm convinced that anyone who can afford enough over-loaded .44 mag to rattle apart any S&W Model 29 can afford a sacrificial .44 Blackhawk to shoot it through.

I passed on a pretty nice (albeit basic) Blackhawk in .44 mag for $400 on Gunbroker early last month.
Link Posted: 1/8/2017 8:45:20 PM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter.    Whenever I'm filthy rich, I'm going to pick up two of these, and have one redone in .357 magnum.  


http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/2274024235/8095536/0685c7411d2ae01d6283146920e3929a.jpg
View Quote


Aren't they just $1k each or so?  Don't need to be filthy rich...
Link Posted: 1/8/2017 8:52:52 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:


Aren't they just $1k each or so?  Don't need to be filthy rich...
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter.    Whenever I'm filthy rich, I'm going to pick up two of these, and have one redone in .357 magnum.  


http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/2274024235/8095536/0685c7411d2ae01d6283146920e3929a.jpg


Aren't they just $1k each or so?  Don't need to be filthy rich...

The regular Blackhawk Bisley Hunter runs $7-800 these days.

To have one completely rebuilt as a .357?  Yeah, that would tickle as it would be a fair bit of custom work.  That's what would break the wallet.  Off the bat, likely a  custom cylinder, bore out and sleeve the barrel, replacing fcg parts if .357 blackhawk parts won't fit, etc.  I can't imagine the .357 pawl assembly won't fit, but I've never compared them to be honest.  Plus timing it all properly, fixing endshake, etc.
Link Posted: 1/8/2017 10:35:54 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:

The regular Blackhawk Bisley Hunter runs $7-800 these days.

To have one completely rebuilt as a .357?  Yeah, that would tickle as it would be a fair bit of custom work.  That's what would break the wallet.  Off the bat, likely a  custom cylinder, bore out and sleeve the barrel, replacing fcg parts if .357 blackhawk parts won't fit, etc.  I can't imagine the .357 pawl assembly won't fit, but I've never compared them to be honest.  Plus timing it all properly, fixing endshake, etc.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter.    Whenever I'm filthy rich, I'm going to pick up two of these, and have one redone in .357 magnum.  


http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/2274024235/8095536/0685c7411d2ae01d6283146920e3929a.jpg


Aren't they just $1k each or so?  Don't need to be filthy rich...

The regular Blackhawk Bisley Hunter runs $7-800 these days.

To have one completely rebuilt as a .357?  Yeah, that would tickle as it would be a fair bit of custom work.  That's what would break the wallet.  Off the bat, likely a  custom cylinder, bore out and sleeve the barrel, replacing fcg parts if .357 blackhawk parts won't fit, etc.  I can't imagine the .357 pawl assembly won't fit, but I've never compared them to be honest.  Plus timing it all properly, fixing endshake, etc.


Got it
Link Posted: 1/8/2017 11:09:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The regular Blackhawk Bisley Hunter runs $7-800 these days.

To have one completely rebuilt as a .357?  Yeah, that would tickle as it would be a fair bit of custom work.  That's what would break the wallet.  Off the bat, likely a  custom cylinder, bore out and sleeve the barrel, replacing fcg parts if .357 blackhawk parts won't fit, etc.  I can't imagine the .357 pawl assembly won't fit, but I've never compared them to be honest.  Plus timing it all properly, fixing endshake, etc.
View Quote


I would think it would be easier to start with a regular Blackhawk and convert it to a Bisley, because then all you would have to do would be figure out the barrel with the scope mounts on it. Unless there's something else different about the Hunter that I'm not seeing.
Link Posted: 1/9/2017 1:23:06 AM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:


I would think it would be easier to start with a regular Blackhawk and convert it to a Bisley, because then all you would have to do would be figure out the barrel with the scope mounts on it. Unless there's something else different about the Hunter that I'm not seeing.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

The regular Blackhawk Bisley Hunter runs $7-800 these days.

To have one completely rebuilt as a .357?  Yeah, that would tickle as it would be a fair bit of custom work.  That's what would break the wallet.  Off the bat, likely a  custom cylinder, bore out and sleeve the barrel, replacing fcg parts if .357 blackhawk parts won't fit, etc.  I can't imagine the .357 pawl assembly won't fit, but I've never compared them to be honest.  Plus timing it all properly, fixing endshake, etc.


I would think it would be easier to start with a regular Blackhawk and convert it to a Bisley, because then all you would have to do would be figure out the barrel with the scope mounts on it. Unless there's something else different about the Hunter that I'm not seeing.

Different FCG, barrel assembly, and grip frame.  I don't have enough experience taking down blackhawk models to say if you can or can't swap them, but from the angles the mainspring would have to be at, my guess is a no.  Could be wrong though.
Link Posted: 1/9/2017 2:12:28 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:

Different FCG, barrel assembly, and grip frame.  I don't have enough experience taking down blackhawk models to say if you can or can't swap them, but from the angles the mainspring would have to be at, my guess is a no.  Could be wrong though.
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I was reading about how to convert one to a Bisley because I want a 5.5" Bisley in 45 Colt and the easiest way would be to buy a regular 5.5" Blackhawk and a Bisley and swap all the parts (hammer, trigger, grip frame, ect) over and put the regular parts on the Bisley and sell it to get some of your money back. To just buy the parts new would involve a bunch of fitting and refinishing. At least that's the way I understand it from the reading I've done.

So if it's as easy as they made it sound, that would just leave you with trying to get the barrel with a scope mount, which I'm sure Hamilton Bowen or somebody would be able to whip up for cheaper than trying to convert a .44 to a .357.
Link Posted: 1/9/2017 2:58:27 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:
Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter.    Whenever I'm filthy rich, I'm going to pick up two of these, and have one redone in .357 magnum.  


http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/2274024235/8095536/0685c7411d2ae01d6283146920e3929a.jpg
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With all the custom work you'd have done to achieve the gun you want you'd be far better off just buying a Freedom Arms in 357. Money wise it'd be a close wash and you'd have a better revolver in the end.
Link Posted: 1/9/2017 8:40:39 PM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:


With all the custom work you'd have done to achieve the gun you want you'd be far better off just buying a Freedom Arms in 357. Money wise it'd be a close wash and you'd have a better revolver in the end.
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Ya but where's the fun in that?
Link Posted: 1/9/2017 9:07:36 PM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:


With all the custom work you'd have done to achieve the gun you want you'd be far better off just buying a Freedom Arms in 357. Money wise it'd be a close wash and you'd have a better revolver in the end.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter.    Whenever I'm filthy rich, I'm going to pick up two of these, and have one redone in .357 magnum.  


http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/2274024235/8095536/0685c7411d2ae01d6283146920e3929a.jpg


With all the custom work you'd have done to achieve the gun you want you'd be far better off just buying a Freedom Arms in 357. Money wise it'd be a close wash and you'd have a better revolver in the end.

Except they don't make anything close to the revolver I want, so it would still need to go out for custom work.  
Link Posted: 1/9/2017 9:18:01 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:


The Dan Wesson's barrels were under tension.  

For hunting, I'd skip the Smith and find a nice used Dan instead.
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and target and carry (Both are 44 Magnum)



Link Posted: 1/19/2017 11:41:27 PM EDT
[#33]
A max load 44 ( obtained by diligent handloading within the limits of published data) is going to be fine in any S&W. keep in mind factory ammo tends to be loaded a touch lighter than an upper limit of the data handload. Still plenty powerful enough for hunting of course.
Generally most avid handgunners I know who hunt with revolvers do NOT constantly shoot hunting level loads, but rather shoot a few cylinders prior to hunting season to confirm sight settings and the vast majority of rounds fired will end up being 44 special level plinking loads. The idea the hunting revolver is going to need to stand up to thousands of full power magnums on an annual basis is not realistic, even more so if you are dependent on factory ammo
Link Posted: 1/19/2017 11:44:12 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:
A max load 44 ( obtained by diligent handloading within the limits of published data) is going to be fine in any S&W. keep in mind factory ammo tends to be loaded a touch lighter than an upper limit of the data handload. Still plenty powerful enough for hunting of course.
Generally most avid handgunners I know who hunt with revolvers do NOT constantly shoot hunting level loads, but rather shoot a few cylinders prior to hunting season to confirm sight settings and the vast majority of rounds fired will end up being 44 special level plinking loads. The idea the hunting revolver is going to need to stand up to thousands of full power magnums on an annual basis is not realistic, even more so if you are dependent on factory ammo
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I have to disagree.  There are loads that are still SAAMI spec that are flat out said not to be put through a Smith.  The Buffalo Bore 240gr HCGC +P+ is a perfect example.

That said, I'm only commenting on the max load point of your post.
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 12:04:32 AM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:

I have to disagree.  There are loads that are still SAAMI spec that are flat out said not to be put through a Smith.  The Buffalo Bore 240gr HCGC +P+ is a perfect example.

That said, I'm only commenting on the max load point of your post.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
A max load 44 ( obtained by diligent handloading within the limits of published data) is going to be fine in any S&W. keep in mind factory ammo tends to be loaded a touch lighter than an upper limit of the data handload. Still plenty powerful enough for hunting of course.
Generally most avid handgunners I know who hunt with revolvers do NOT constantly shoot hunting level loads, but rather shoot a few cylinders prior to hunting season to confirm sight settings and the vast majority of rounds fired will end up being 44 special level plinking loads. The idea the hunting revolver is going to need to stand up to thousands of full power magnums on an annual basis is not realistic, even more so if you are dependent on factory ammo

I have to disagree.  There are loads that are still SAAMI spec that are flat out said not to be put through a Smith.  The Buffalo Bore 240gr HCGC +P+ is a perfect example.

That said, I'm only commenting on the max load point of your post.


But I really can't see the point in getting a +P+ .44 Magnum when a hot .45 Colt would do everything better.
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 12:19:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Attachment Attached File


I went with a new S&W this year.... very happy
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 12:25:13 AM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:


But I really can't see the point in getting a +P+ .44 Magnum when a hot .45 Colt would do everything better.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A max load 44 ( obtained by diligent handloading within the limits of published data) is going to be fine in any S&W. keep in mind factory ammo tends to be loaded a touch lighter than an upper limit of the data handload. Still plenty powerful enough for hunting of course.
Generally most avid handgunners I know who hunt with revolvers do NOT constantly shoot hunting level loads, but rather shoot a few cylinders prior to hunting season to confirm sight settings and the vast majority of rounds fired will end up being 44 special level plinking loads. The idea the hunting revolver is going to need to stand up to thousands of full power magnums on an annual basis is not realistic, even more so if you are dependent on factory ammo

I have to disagree.  There are loads that are still SAAMI spec that are flat out said not to be put through a Smith.  The Buffalo Bore 240gr HCGC +P+ is a perfect example.

That said, I'm only commenting on the max load point of your post.


But I really can't see the point in getting a +P+ .44 Magnum when a hot .45 Colt would do everything better.

That load is beyond anything a .45 Colt will do. It's under 200ft/lbs different from their 240gr +P .454 Casull loading. 

Really popular bear load up here btw. 
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 12:50:47 AM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:

I have to disagree.  There are loads that are still SAAMI spec that are flat out said not to be put through a Smith.  The Buffalo Bore 240gr HCGC +P+ is a perfect example.

That said, I'm only commenting on the max load point of your post.
View Quote


I think you may be mistaken.  Buffalo Bore website in their technical article section explicitly states that their 45 Colt +P loads are above SAAMI for 45 Colt.  The technical articles would also imply that their other cartridges with +P and +P+ designation are above SAAMI for those cartridges.  The only exception I would expect would be the +P cartridges that SAAMI does have a +P specification for.  The only pistol/revolver cartridges that have a +P pressure specification are 38 Special, 38 Super Automatic, 9mm Luger, and 45 ACP.  SAAMI does not recognize the +P+ designation.

I would bet that the Buffalo Bore's Heavy .44 Magnum +P+ 340 gr. Hard Cast, is above SAAMI spec for 44 Mag, 36,000 psi.
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 2:43:59 AM EDT
[#39]
Now I'm curious. If I can talk Monday I'll give them a call and see if I can get a hold of the tech guys.  No promises since I'm losing teeth in the AM but we'll see. 

Edit: after some googling it looks like +p+ is usually 120% of spec, so you are correct. Always figured it was redline max spec but within. 

Also the load is 340gr not 240. 
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 2:52:55 AM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:
I would bet that the Buffalo Bore's Heavy .44 Magnum +P+ 340 gr. Hard Cast, is above SAAMI spec for 44 Mag, 36,000 psi.
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Some have replicated it with handloading, by their data it's 43-45k PSI.
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 10:01:32 AM EDT
[#41]
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Quoted:


Some have replicated it with handloading, by their data it's 43-45k PSI.
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Quoted:
I would bet that the Buffalo Bore's Heavy .44 Magnum +P+ 340 gr. Hard Cast, is above SAAMI spec for 44 Mag, 36,000 psi.


Some have replicated it with handloading, by their data it's 43-45k PSI.


Reading over some of these figures you guys are discussing, they look like Dinosaur-killin' loads.
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 10:29:30 AM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:


Some have replicated it with handloading, by their data it's 43-45k PSI.
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I bet your numbers are close.  I don't have the exact bullet dimensions or OAL but a quick stab at it with Quickload propellent check only shows a few powders managing to get to the reported velocity with pressures under 50K.  That would be a killer load.
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 4:08:12 PM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:


Reading over some of these figures you guys are discussing, they look like Dinosaur-killin' loads.
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The Buffalo Bore load is a poor man's .454 Casull.
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 4:26:58 PM EDT
[#44]
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Quoted:


The Buffalo Bore load is a poor man's .454 Casull.
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Quoted:


Reading over some of these figures you guys are discussing, they look like Dinosaur-killin' loads.


The Buffalo Bore load is a poor man's .454 Casull.

Folks like it up here because you get to use 44spl and 44mag, but can still get 454 performance out of the round.  45 Colt ammo is a fair bit more expensive up here round for round than 44 last I checked. 
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 4:59:35 PM EDT
[#45]
the S&W is pretty and smooth but....

i think the Ruger superblackhawk is easier to shoot hot 44 magnums through

Link Posted: 1/20/2017 11:16:35 PM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:
the S&W is pretty and smooth but....

i think the Ruger superblackhawk is easier to shoot hot 44 magnums through
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Quoted:
the S&W is pretty and smooth but....

i think the Ruger superblackhawk is easier to shoot hot 44 magnums through


While I would like a Super Blackhawk, I'm not getting a Model 29 because I want a .44 Magnum, I'm getting a .44 Magnum because I want a Model 29.

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would bet that the Buffalo Bore's Heavy .44 Magnum +P+ 340 gr. Hard Cast, is above SAAMI spec for 44 Mag, 36,000 psi.


Some have replicated it with handloading, by their data it's 43-45k PSI.


Reading over some of these figures you guys are discussing, they look like Dinosaur-killin' loads.


Personally, if I was going to get a Dinosaur-killin' load, I'd be sending a Bisley Blackhawk to John Linebaugh instead of getting a .44 Magnum.

Quoted:Generally most avid handgunners I know who hunt with revolvers do NOT constantly shoot hunting level loads, but rather shoot a few cylinders prior to hunting season to confirm sight settings and the vast majority of rounds fired will end up being 44 special level plinking loads. The idea the hunting revolver is going to need to stand up to thousands of full power magnums on an annual basis is not realistic, even more so if you are dependent on factory ammo


The only reason I' going to get started reloading is so I can afford the level of shooting I want to do. I'm really not intersted in working up more than one load. Whatever load I find that works is what I'm going to stick with. It might be barely over a special, or it might be a full house .44 Magnum, but whatever load I decide on that shoots really good is going to be the only one I load.
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 11:41:07 PM EDT
[#47]
You might enjoy reading ... John Linebaugh's Writings

The Smith & Wesson 44 Magnum is my favorite gun.  Before the Model 69 came out, my favorite was the 629 Mountain Gun.  Now it's a toss up.

Most of my Smith 44s

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/22/2017 2:04:45 PM EDT
[#48]
Nice 629 collection.

Whats the one on the bottom left. An F comp?
Link Posted: 1/22/2017 4:58:09 PM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:
Nice 629 collection.

Whats the one on the bottom left. An F comp?
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Yes, that one went down the road along with the 8 3/8 629 Classic.  I've since added a 29-10 Mountain Gun.
Link Posted: 1/22/2017 5:02:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
I'm fixing to be in the market for a new hunting revolver because my dad keeps making a big deal that I need to give his back to him (what do you expect when you let someone borrow a sixgun that shoots that good? ). I'm going to get a Model 29, and while I was dead set on one that's pinned and recessed, if I remember right they didn't start putting the endurance package on them until the -3s or -4s, and to keep my accuracy up at 50-100 yards without a scope it's going to be shot quite a bit. So I was thinking if I'm going to get a non P&R gun I might as well get a new one. I know one of the biggest complaints people have about new Smiths is they have a 2 piece barrel, but isn't that what made Dan Wessons so accurate? I would rather have a pistol without the lock and the MIM parts, but if they are more accurate I can live with the MIM parts and get rid of the lock.
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I don't think the S&W two-piece barrel is torqued at the front AND back like the Dan Wesson.
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