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Posted: 2/21/2006 4:52:44 PM EDT
I was looking into a 2000sk in 357sig and it costs almost 750$ without night sites! The I looked up USP's and saw similar prices. Why so expensive?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:34:56 PM EDT
Well, they're HK.

If you want the best handguns in the world, you're gonna have to pay for them.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:35:40 PM EDT
Like divorce's, they are worth it.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:38:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Well, they're HK.

If you want the best handguns in the world, you're gonna have to pay for them.



But how are tehy the best? Their slides run outside the frame like everyone else? they use a fairly inexpensive to produce locking system?

I don't get it.....

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:59:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Why so expensive?



Because it has the letters "HK" on the side of it.

The same goes for lights, why is an Insight M2 cheaper than a UTL?

They're the same thing, but the UTL has the letters "HK" on the side.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:00:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 6:15:52 PM EDT by PrivatePile]
Why is a BMW expensive?

the germans make a superiour product however that being said having owned both Glock's and HK's the glock to me is a better weapon.

There pistols are overpriced however i believe there rifles are worth every penny
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:31:27 PM EDT
Polygonal barrels are common.
barrel/slide lockup is the cheapest lockup ever devised
slide runs on rails outside the frame, also cheap and efficient to produce.

I don't get it.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:04:36 PM EDT
Not only their handguns, but their magazines. Jesus, it's just plastic.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:06:06 PM EDT
marketing
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:06:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Well, they're HK.

If you want the best handguns in the world, you're gonna have to pay for them.



+1

NEVER a single problem with my HK USP .40. It's my duty weapon and I trust it 100%. That alone is worth the price.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:09:17 PM EDT
for you people who complain about expensive, my advice to you: DON'T BUY IT.
if you have to complain about the price, you can't afford it.
don't bitch about it here, please go buy other gun that you can afford.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:16:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 7:24:45 PM EDT by Marksman14]

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Polygonal barrels are common.
barrel/slide lockup is the cheapest lockup ever devised
slide runs on rails outside the frame, also cheap and efficient to produce.

I don't get it.



Well, their simplistic lockup has helped them develop the most accurate production handguns out there at any price. Throw a USP or any HK derived from the USP design in a ransom rest, and it will outshoot almost everything out there, regardless of price.

Not only that, but they are also the most reliable, equal to, if not more, than the Glock design.

What you are paying for is a handgun that was put through hell while being developed. R&D was key in the design of this pistol, as well as those that have spawned off of it, including the P2000 series.

Why do people pay more for a BMW or a Mercedes over say...a Chevy or a Dodge? Well, all 4 companies make good products. But the refinement and the durability and craftsmanship of the Mercedes and the BMW's are what set them apart from the rest. Ever read how much less force their recoil reduction system places on the frame than other handguns? That frame is going to last a very very very long time.

Where other companies cut corners, HK does not. Where other companys can produce either an accurate, or a reliable pistol, HK can do both. Its hard to do both of those things at the same time. Its even harder to do them both better than the rest.

You're paying for exactly what HK claims. No Compromise.

There is a reason I own four of these things (USP40F, P2000V3 9mm, USP Tac, MK23). And there is a reason that every other handgun I own with the exception of my Kimber TLE RL is strictly a range toy, including my Sig226, my long since sold Glock, my 92fs (which is only a range gun because I am more proficient with the HK's now), and my CZ's.

P2000SK 9mm is on my list of handguns to buy

Oh, and FYI, HK's marketing had nothing to do with why I bought my first HK. I wanted a .40, and the USP is the only .40 out there that was designed around that cartridge, instead of being a scaled up 9mm. So naturally, that was what I wanted. After I realized I couldn't even force the thing to choke, I decided to try another. After I experienced the same thing with it, I purchased another. And another.

If it was just marketing...I would have bought one, and shot it, and enjoyed it, and moved to another brand...not purchased three more.


Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:21:00 PM EDT
Let's put it this way. If they didn't sell, they wouldn't be that expensive.

I personally feel that H&K are the best factory "combat" pistols out there. Glocks work, XDs work, etc. etc. But out of all of them, I really prefer H&K.

Granted, I'm envious of those $15 Glock mags...
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:26:19 PM EDT
Also, I've never paid more than 35 dollars for an HK full cap magazine. And yes, that includes MK23 magazines.

If you look around, they're not that bad.

I'd rather have an HK with 10 magazines than a Glock with 20 :-)
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:33:36 PM EDT
Like a Benelli, they know that American's will pay more than what they're worth because they are made in a foreign land.

I own a Benelli, by the way, and couln't be happier with my purchase.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:52:52 PM EDT
I just can't get over the thought of a perfect CCW as a P2000 sk in 357sig.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 8:00:29 PM EDT
Buy a used HK and that should save you some $$$, like I did.

But you'll end up spending the same money after you buy a couple hi cap mags, like I did.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 8:18:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 8:22:39 PM EDT by m499]
Because they're losing all their market share to SIG and have to make up for it someplace...

Also XM8 and HK416 both failed miserably so thats got to be worth another $150 or so added to the tag of an already overpriced HK pistol.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:14:31 AM EDT
Cost of production.

Anyone have the numbers on how many Glocks are made vs Hk. Glocks have such a high production ammount they can sell for less.

How many people do u know with a HK? Persoanlly including my self I know 3. Glock owners hell everyone I know owns at least one glock. look at the cost of Walther p99's

low production numbers = higher cost.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:43:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I was looking into a 2000sk in 357sig and it costs almost 750$ without night sites! The I looked up USP's and saw similar prices. Why so expensive?



Because God is trying to tell you to buy a Sig.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:47:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GotGuns:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I was looking into a 2000sk in 357sig and it costs almost 750$ without night sites! The I looked up USP's and saw similar prices. Why so expensive?



Because God is trying to tell you to buy a Sig.



only sig I can fit my mitts on is a 230/232
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:50:03 AM EDT
If you think HKs are expensive, you haven't priced high end production 1911s, not to mention "custom" guns from Baer, Brown, RRA, etc.

I paid $900 for my USP Tactical 45, and I don't regret a bit of it.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:51:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dvr9:
Like divorce's, they are worth it.


LMAO! Post of the week!
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 1:22:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheJeanyus:
If you think HKs are expensive, you haven't priced high end production 1911s, not to mention "custom" guns from Baer, Brown, RRA, etc.

I paid $900 for my USP Tactical 45, and I don't regret a bit of it.



But they're not custom guns and make use of the some of the 'cheapest' mechanisms to produce?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 1:46:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheJeanyus:
If you think HKs are expensive, you haven't priced high end production 1911s, not to mention "custom" guns from Baer, Brown, RRA, etc.

I paid $900 for my USP Tactical 45, and I don't regret a bit of it.



A lot more labor goes into making a 1911 than a poly wonder pistol. That plastic frame doesnt cost a whole lot either, considering machine time and materials for a frame on a 1911
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 1:58:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m499:
Because they're losing all their market share to SIG and have to make up for it someplace...

Also XM8 and HK416 both failed miserably so thats got to be worth another $150 or so added to the tag of an already overpriced HK pistol.



Hahahahah yes, the 416 is a HUGE failure... You don't really know alot do you.

I prefer my HK's over Sig, because HK knows how to properly locate controls, and doenst require massive amounts of oil to run properly.

If you wanna stick with an oil thirsty sig, more power to you.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 1:59:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trey-W:

Originally Posted By TheJeanyus:
If you think HKs are expensive, you haven't priced high end production 1911s, not to mention "custom" guns from Baer, Brown, RRA, etc.

I paid $900 for my USP Tactical 45, and I don't regret a bit of it.



A lot more labor goes into making a 1911 than a poly wonder pistol. That plastic frame doesnt cost a whole lot either, considering machine time and materials for a frame on a 1911



The frame doesn't cost, but the tooling of the mold does.

The bottom line is that the H&K line command a high price premium. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's like saying, "I want a Mercedes, but I'll pay a Kia price." Both do the job, but do it differently.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 2:03:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By TheJeanyus:
If you think HKs are expensive, you haven't priced high end production 1911s, not to mention "custom" guns from Baer, Brown, RRA, etc.

I paid $900 for my USP Tactical 45, and I don't regret a bit of it.



But they're not custom guns and make use of the some of the 'cheapest' mechanisms to produce?



Exactly. They're not custom, but the outshoot most every custom gun.

What that means is, you can drop in any HK part (barrel, slide, whatever) and still have match grade accuracy.

Thats what you're paying for. If a company can figure out how to make a firearm shoot as accurately as a custom gun without all the hassle...I don't see what you're complaining about. Nor do USP Tacticals cost anywhere near a custom 1911. MK23...maybe. But thats a whole different animal.

I don't know about you, but my life is worth the 750 dollar price tag of a P2k SK. If you don't want to pay that much, its quite simple. Don't. I do not own a single HK that I would consider overpriced/overrated. How can you complain about the price of a handgun that outshoots damn near every production firearm out there, and has the reliability of a Glock?

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 2:28:53 PM EDT
A USP slide is cut from an 18 pound piece of barstock by CNC mills.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 2:34:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 3:02:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 3:10:49 PM EDT
Damn, I was told it was the other way around. Fucking salesmen.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 3:23:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Damn, I was told it was the other way around. Fucking salesmen.



I was gonna call BS but I'm still learning about HK's. I still don't get it. nothing I've heard here justifies the price yet. each argument can be countered. I'm not against spending money, I may end up with one, but why?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 3:31:35 PM EDT
I've only fired one a compact 40, I'm gonna try a tactical this week.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 3:34:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 3:35:53 PM EDT by ORinTX]
They're good guns.

They're cheaper than a lot of 1911s.

And you can find that gun you're talking about for $650 at a gun show.

ETA: I've seen them go up in price as the dollar has weakened.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 3:42:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ORinTX:
They're good guns.

They're cheaper than a lot of 1911s.

And you can find that gun you're talking about for $650 at a gun show.

ETA: I've seen them go up in price as the dollar has weakened.



yeah that's the argument I've heard that holds water. exchange rates are insane since around the invasion of iraq.... seriously affecting imports. That I buy. But htat only goes so far.

Honestly, If I found it for 600$ I'd jump on it.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 3:53:10 PM EDT
I own a Beretta 92FS, a SigArms P220 ST and an H&K USP Compact 9mm. I love all three guns. All three guns are very fun to shoot.

I like the 15 round capacity that I get with the Beretta along with the design of the safety and yes, I like the looks of the gun.

I like the weight of the P220 ST along with the design, the accuracy, and the over all look of the weapon.

However, I'd have to say that H&K is still the best of them if I was to be completely honest with myself. Each of the Beretta and Sig have their very strong points and they're good pistols. However, the total package winner goes to H&K ...

I have a Variant 1 in the USP Compact. I like the fact that I can very easily operate everything using only my right hand with the pistol in the "ready" position. The slide release is easy to get to, the mag release is easy to get to and I can decock and engage safety all with the thumb.

When I disassemble the H&K, I like the fact that the spring buffer is integrated onto it's post. In my most humble opinion, it's the easiest of my handguns to clean. I've never had a failure with the H&K but then I have to be honest and say that I've never had a failure with the Beretta or Sig either. Again, for me, the H&K's are the complete package.

Yes, the double-action trigger pull does suck but that can also be rectified somewhat. That's about my only complaint with the stock H&K USP Compact 9mm that I own.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 4:21:45 PM EDT
Weren't there some torture tests done on HKs similar to Glock? I recall there being two, one which the HK proved to be exceptionally reliable, and another where it was subjected to the same tests a Glock was and it failed.

I love my Glock, but i'm actually looking into purchasing an HK Mk23. I think both Glock and HK make reliable, high quality weapons but it's just about what you perfer.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:26:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By ORinTX:
They're good guns.

They're cheaper than a lot of 1911s.

And you can find that gun you're talking about for $650 at a gun show.

ETA: I've seen them go up in price as the dollar has weakened.



yeah that's the argument I've heard that holds water. exchange rates are insane since around the invasion of iraq.... seriously affecting imports. That I buy. But htat only goes so far.

Honestly, If I found it for 600$ I'd jump on it.



So that whole accuracy/reliability/durability schpiel I did was completely worthless?

lol
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:41:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Marksman14:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By ORinTX:
They're good guns.

They're cheaper than a lot of 1911s.

And you can find that gun you're talking about for $650 at a gun show.

ETA: I've seen them go up in price as the dollar has weakened.



yeah that's the argument I've heard that holds water. exchange rates are insane since around the invasion of iraq.... seriously affecting imports. That I buy. But htat only goes so far.

Honestly, If I found it for 600$ I'd jump on it.



So that whole accuracy/reliability/durability schpiel I did was completely worthless?

lol



I just don't buy it. Some glocks are up to 500,000 rounds now in long term testing with failures int eh single digits, a new barrel or two and out of the box accuracy (I hate glocks, dont' worry), sigs are imported and 'precision reputation'-full as well, where's the high price there?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:51:33 PM EDT
The new Sigs are as expensive, if not more, than HKs. But they have alloy frames and cost a bit more to produce...

Just get a used one for around $550 and call it a day. There, the depreciation is already done, and if you decide to sell it (I don't know why) then you won't lose much.

For long lasting pistols, steel frame is still King.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:23:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 7:23:54 PM EDT by ORinTX]
This I can tell you: You'll love it if you buy one.

They're really VERY good guns, and if your comparison points are Glock and SIG you'll appreciate the H/K because it's the type of pistol you're looking for. You'll understand if you own one

It's definitely the high end of polymer pistols price wise, but it is performance wise as well IMO.

And honestly, the prices vary a lot. I really do think you can find one for $650. I just bought another USP last month for that much.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:51:01 PM EDT
i just bought a USP 9mm for $500. around the same price as Glocks and Sigs, and in my opinion, it's a lot better.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:55:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 7:56:09 PM EDT by mimikamimi]
This is part of the reason they are worth the money. You aren't buying 1 pistol, you are buying 10. Have an officer in the Dept. that is left handed, or want to change the duty weapon to LEM? No problem just give the pistols to the armorer and let him change it for you.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:41:33 PM EDT
The Sigs in my area are just as expensive as the HK's with comperable features.

Infact, most of them are more expensive.

That...and sigs aren't anywhere as reliable as HK's.

My Sig 226 requires LOADS of oil to run properly.

Even if HK's cost 200 more than sigs, I'd still buy the HK's.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:25:57 PM EDT
I always wonder why people who don't like the H&K insist on posting in the H&K section, stirring the shit was a lot of fun in high school, I grew out of it.

My father was issued a SIG when he was with the Bureau and he hated it, needed lots of oil and the frame would gum up on the slide (he was admittedly bad at keeping it clean).

He got a Glock just prior to retirement and preffered that.

That said, I like the P226 but I am left handed and I don't appreciate their lack of an attempt at making a left handed version.

My H&K has been reliable (atleast through all of the Qualifications as I have never shot an actual person, thank god). it has a great trigger, short reset and it gives me multiple options for carry.

It shows zero wear after over 2000 rounds and attracts comments from all of my buddies that use standard issue Glock 22's.

Recoil is near non existant and damn it is good looking.

The grip will tear up your hands too, I like that, I always know when I am gripping properly.

Would not trade it for anything.

My next is a P2000SK V.3

Then maybe a Tactical and then a 226tactical and then another Glock (as I currently own a 27)

Dan
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:39:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Slowerthanu:
I always wonder why people who don't like the H&K insist on posting in the H&K section, stirring the shit was a lot of fun in high school, I grew out of it.



I'm here to get info. I do that before I buy things. The only things I don't like are carnies.... small hands.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:21:04 PM EDT

Why so expensive?


1) Because they really are good guns, but so are a lot of other pistols.

2) Because the market will bear the price they are asking.

Link Posted: 2/25/2006 11:31:24 AM EDT
I recently bought a Sig 239 SAS which cost me 750 bucks. I also have a p2000sk which i bought a couple of months ago. I liked the look of the sig and I carry a sig for duty so I said the sig could be my carry piece, but i wanted to shoot it back to back against my 2000.

Well after 500 rounds, i was pissed I spent 750 dollars on the p239. I was more accurate with my HK and my groupings were tighter. Both pistols had double action triggers because im required to have it by my department(for off duty carry). The Sig has the new DAK trigger and the HK has the lem. IMO the lem feels better with a shorter reset. Im still not prepared to give up on the SIG. I will shoot it head to head one more time but this time im ditching the wood grips and will be using houges(as soon as they come out with the revised dak compatible ones). The reason i was leaning so heavily towards sig was the controls on my duty gun would mirror my off duty piece and the SAS looks nice. If after the next round the results are the same im going with the HK despite the controls, rule #1 is hit the target and it seems i do it very accurately with the HK.

I have alot of respect for HK. I spent almost 800 bucks on it but its one of my best shooters. Maybe it is produced with polymer and to some it may be overpriced. I have a Glock 22, Kimber custom, a couple of smith and wesson so i am no novice to pistols. As far as im concerned in my subjective opinion, the HK is worth every penny.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 3:32:54 PM EDT
getting to shoot a brand new tactical (friend's) tomorrow. will report back. it's the first for either of us.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 8:46:00 PM EDT
I bought a 45 USP Expert a while ago and thought it was pretty expensive, but I always wanted one. After shooting it for a while, I really don't think they're that expensive after all. I think I may buy one in 9mm too. I can easily bust clay birds at 50 yards all day, nice trigger, cleans in about 10 minutes, ultra reliable, etc. You gets what you pays for.

MBR
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