.40S&W as a combat round

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - .40S&W as a combat round

Posted: 1/6/2006 7:30:32 PM EDT

Looking for opinions on .40 cal as a combat round. Its a snapy and decently powerful round. I know many police departments use it because of the ability to fit more rounds in a service size handgun. So what is the common wisdom for using a .40 as a combat round? I have all 3 - 9mm, .40, and .45 - so just looking for views for or against. Is it used in the military at all?

Posted: 1/6/2006 7:33:20 PM EDT

[#1]

It's not used by our military because our military is Nato's bitch when it comes to Arms. It is a good round and I carry it (glock 22) daily. I've seen first hand what a good JHP .40 cal round can do.

Posted: 1/6/2006 8:40:37 PM EDT

[#2]

I used a Glock 23 during a police action shooting and it saved my ass... My department issues G22s and we've been very happy with the durability and shootability of the guns and .40 cartridge.... The bottom line is it's far more important where you hit them than what caliber you hit them with... .40 will do just fine...

Ammo selection in this caliber is important too... I like the 165 gr Rem Golden Saber (Golddot and Corbon also make the list for me in the 155gr to 165gr range.. )

Posted: 1/6/2006 8:41:58 PM EDT

[#3]

I shoot Ranger 155 gr. They have impressive, if messy, results.

Posted: 1/8/2006 3:30:34 PM EDT

[#4]

I notice that most use a round in the 165-155 range. I believe I have even seen something in the 135 range? So these are better than the 180gr standard round? I carry the XD-40 with PMC's 180gr Eldorado Starfire. What about the lower grained rounds make them the better choice?

Posted: 1/8/2006 3:33:28 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
The bottom line is it's far more important where you hit them than what caliber you hit them with

Words of wisdom.

I also have seen .40's aftermath. I am very comfortable carrying it everyday.

Posted: 1/8/2006 3:55:39 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
I notice that most use a round in the 165-155 range. I believe I have even seen something in the 135 range? So these are better than the 180gr standard round? I carry the XD-40 with PMC's 180gr Eldorado Starfire. What about the lower grained rounds make them the better choice?

The JHP rounds named in 155 gr and 165 gr are the best available rounds. I don't know any one that would hesitate to use golden sabre or Ranger. I've heard good things and bad things about starfires. Speed and weight of the bullets all contribute to its performance and usually hollow points are designed to work at an optimal speed that is reached at the distance from the muzzle where your most likely to shoot someone.

Posted: 1/8/2006 11:42:23 PM EDT

[#7]

i carry and trust my life with my glock 23 & 27 loaded with speer golddots 180gr.

Posted: 1/8/2006 11:50:14 PM EDT

[#8]

Another issue with the .40 is bullet setback causing dangerous overpressure. When your top round is repeatedly chambered the bullet may be setback slightly. This will likely cause a 6 o'clock failure of the case when used in an unsupported chamber. This can be helped by rotating the top round in the mag so you're not constantly rechambering the same one every time you load/unload the pistol. It's less of an issue with the 9mm and 45acp.

Posted: 1/10/2006 9:08:33 AM EDT

[#9]

Is the over pressurization issue something that was most common with the 180g bullet?

Posted: 1/10/2006 9:25:41 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Another issue with the .40 is bullet setback causing dangerous overpressure. When your top round is repeatedly chambered the bullet may be setback slightly. This will likely cause a 6 o'clock failure of the case when used in an unsupported chamber. This can be helped by rotating the top round in the mag so you're not constantly rechambering the same one every time you load/unload the pistol. It's less of an issue with the 9mm and 45acp.

I try to avoid loading and unloading for this reason. The 1911 is much worse for setting back bullets due to it's brutal feeding design.

Most modern autos are much more fluid in feeding from the mag. I used to drop my pipe round in the chamber and then close the slide on top of it. But advice from members here taught me that this was BAD for the extractor.

I just leave my weapon loaded.

Posted: 1/10/2006 9:49:24 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Another issue with the .40 is bullet setback causing dangerous overpressure. When your top round is repeatedly chambered the bullet may be setback slightly. This will likely cause a 6 o'clock failure of the case when used in an unsupported chamber. This can be helped by rotating the top round in the mag so you're not constantly rechambering the same one every time you load/unload the pistol. It's less of an issue with the 9mm and 45acp.

I try to avoid loading and unloading for this reason. The 1911 is much worse for setting back bullets due to it's brutal feeding design.

Most modern autos are much more fluid in feeding from the mag. I used to drop my pipe round in the chamber and then close the slide on top of it. But advice from members here taught me that this was BAD for the extractor.

I just leave my weapon loaded.

Me too. But with most modern semi auto designs it's slamming the round straight ahead into a barrel that is brought rearward and angled to be in line with the next round, Glocks are especially good about this.

Posted: 1/10/2006 11:53:20 AM EDT

[#12]

Me too. But with most modern semi auto designs it's slamming the round straight ahead into a barrel that is brought rearward and angled to be in line with the next round, Glocks are especially good about this.

Dont bet on it. Glock will suffer tremendously from a 6 o'clock failure. Rotate the top round if you find yourself loading/unloading often. At my work I was supposed to load/unload twice per shift, (although many guys just shove a loaded/chambered pistol in the locker

) you can damned sure bet there's alot of setback bullets in the issue G22s. ( when they follow policy anyhow)

It's FREE insurance against bad things.

Let's not start the glock/1911 fire here

Posted: 1/10/2006 12:00:23 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
you can damned sure bet there's alot of setback bullets in the issue G22s.

I doubt it! Have you ever taken a glock and slowly rode the slide home on a live round?

It will actually feed, and there's no real HARD BANG into the feedramp at all.

Maybe I'll take a practice round and chamber it full power a bunch of times and report back.

Posted: 1/10/2006 1:16:28 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
you can damned sure bet there's alot of setback bullets in the issue G22s.

I doubt it! Have you ever taken a glock and slowly rode the slide home on a live round?

It will actually feed, and there's no real HARD BANG into the feedramp at all.

Maybe I'll take a practice round and chamber it full power a bunch of times and report back.

My apologies for soiling the koolaid. www.thegunzone.com/glock/kb-notes.html
Btw, I carried a G22 with Winchester Ranger 180gr JHPs before I privately purchased my P220

Once again, not glock bashing specifically just pointing out a fact to guys who dont want to hear it. Glocks are freaking perfect already but dammit the .40 case can be dangerous if you get bullet setback. If you think it wont happen then fine. Maybe nothing will ever happen but did you ever notice .40s blow up more than any other gun?????
It's not that big a friggen deal to rotate the top round.

Posted: 1/10/2006 1:33:08 PM EDT

[#15]

Interesting!

I'm still going to try to get a practice round to set back tonight. Or at least establish how many cycles before I start to see setback.

w00t!

Posted: 1/10/2006 1:39:44 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Interesting!

I'm still going to try to get a practice round to set back tonight. Or at least establish how many cycles before I start to see setback.

w00t!

I just tried 14 cycles with a Fed 180gr Hydrashok. It went from 1.123" to 1.116" It's not alot but if you do it twice a day that's 1 week. It was a single round and I'm sure others would vary but frankly cycling the slide by hand to lock and reloading it in the mag is a PITA and I dont care to keep doing it with more rounds.

I'll try the same with my 1911 and 230gr Ranger SXTs and see what happens. I will edit this post with results from my Springer custom, and a stock GI model.

Here it is:
My carry SA 1.210" to 1.207" my GI 1.210" to 1.195"

Even .45acp suffers setback in my beloved 1911 however the cartridge itself is lower pressure and doesnt seem to suffer the same issue but it is worth noting. If I were inclined to own a .40 cal 1911 I'd watch it as closely as I would the glock.

Posted: 1/10/2006 4:18:17 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I just tried 14 cycles with a Fed 180gr Hydrashok. It went from 1.123" to 1.116" It's not alot but if you do it twice a day that's 1 week. It was a single round and I'm sure others would vary but frankly cycling the slide by hand to lock and reloading it in the mag is a PITA and I dont care to keep doing it with more rounds.

I'll try the same with my 1911 and 230gr Ranger SXTs and see what happens. I will edit this post with results from my Springer custom, and a stock GI model.

Here it is:
My carry SA 1.210" to 1.207" my GI 1.210" to 1.195"

Even .45acp suffers setback in my beloved 1911 however the cartridge itself is lower pressure and doesnt seem to suffer the same issue but it is worth noting. If I were inclined to own a .40 cal 1911 I'd watch it as closely as I would the glock.

Cool! Now I can just drink beer tonight!

Now what do you say we design a duty round that has special brass with a very narrow shelf to support the base of the bullet. 100% setback proof with minimal alteration to the internal case volume.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - .40S&W as a combat round

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