Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 11/20/2005 8:21:31 AM EDT
Now I know this has been addressed a thousand times, and everyone always says "I will be testing XXXX tomorrow" but then never posts results. And of course magazine articles get paid to test certain types and give them a thumbs-up. With all that being said, let's get less technical and more real and ask this question:
What is really the best self-defense round? Of course, the best bullet design in the world is worth nothing without shot placement, and the most expensive and well-tested round is no good if it doesn't feed through your handgun. But with that out of the way, I mean what really is the best round for the buck? I've tried (9mm) Hyrdashock, Winchester Supreme SXT, Winchester Ranger, Gold Dot, and MagTech. I have my personal opinions on all of these, but does anyone have any info on best penetration, best fps, etc? I personally have settled on the 147gr Winchester SXT, at $14 for a 20rnd box, and nice tight groups. But I'm always looking for more info. So bring it on!
hug.gif
Link Posted: 11/20/2005 11:08:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2005 3:43:43 PM EDT
147gr. Gold Dots or RangerT SXTs
135gr+P Fed Tac
127grg+P+ RangerT SXTs
124gr+P Gold Dots or RangerT SXTs
Link Posted: 11/20/2005 3:54:56 PM EDT
+1 on HST 147grain
Link Posted: 11/20/2005 8:17:37 PM EDT
Speer 124gr +p cause it's affordable enough to practice with and feeds really well in all our 9mm and averages 1155fps out of my wife's Taurus Millinieum stubby bbl.
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 5:42:57 PM EDT
+1 for the 124+P Gold Dots.

If not

124+P+ Fed HS



Joe
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 5:56:16 PM EDT
Any of the above will do the job. Stay away from ammo exotica.
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 6:31:01 PM EDT
I have read some recent and very impressive test results on the Ranger 124 gr +P BONDED. I dont know if its on the market yet. Outside of that Id say 124 grain +P Gold Dots
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 6:40:23 PM EDT
I'm going with HST.
But then I am kind of a snob that way.
Link Posted: 11/22/2005 8:36:02 PM EDT
Winchester Ranger SXT 127gr +p+
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 5:41:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 5:44:56 AM EDT
Crap, I did not know it was time for this thread again.


TXL
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 3:19:41 PM EDT
Currently carrying:
1) Kahr PM9 loaded with Corbon Powerball 100gr +P. My PM9 is a picky eater, and has never choked on these.
2) Walther P99 loaded with Remington 115gr +P. These are cheap, and the Walther has never failed with any 9mm ammo yet. BSW
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 8:26:56 AM EDT
Winchester Ranger T. Somewhat hard to find, but has gotten the best reviews and is issued to LE
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 8:06:44 AM EDT
what about hornady tap 147 grain jhp?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:13:34 AM EDT
Well now that I have everyone's opinions, anyone actually have the proof I'm looking for? Gelatin tests, fps tests, etc.?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:16:34 AM EDT
Federal HST's
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:23:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2005 8:24:31 AM EDT by FedGunner]

Originally Posted By rizzo1318:
Well now that I have everyone's opinions, anyone actually have the proof I'm looking for? Gelatin tests, fps tests, etc.?




le.atk.com/pdf/Pierce%20County%20Workshop.pdf

le.atk.com/pdf/San.pdf

le.atk.com/pdf/PortlandReport.pdf

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:29:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FedGunner:

Originally Posted By rizzo1318:
Well now that I have everyone's opinions, anyone actually have the proof I'm looking for? Gelatin tests, fps tests, etc.?




le.atk.com/pdf/Pierce%20County%20Workshop.pdf

le.atk.com/pdf/San.pdf

le.atk.com/pdf/PortlandReport.pdf

Hope this helps.



All sponsored by ATK, or Federal. Do you think they're gonna be unbiased?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 4:52:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FAIL-SAFE:

Originally Posted By FedGunner:

Originally Posted By rizzo1318:
Well now that I have everyone's opinions, anyone actually have the proof I'm looking for? Gelatin tests, fps tests, etc.?




le.atk.com/pdf/Pierce%20County%20Workshop.pdf

le.atk.com/pdf/San.pdf

le.atk.com/pdf/PortlandReport.pdf

Hope this helps.





All sponsored by ATK, or Federal. Do you think they're gonna be unbiased?



Hey....

You spend the thousands it takes to do this and report back.

Read the reoprts please.... Tell the class how they were "rigged"
(Actually they were sponsored by the various LE agencies. ATK/Federal posted the results)
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 5:27:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2005 4:25:38 AM EDT by Glox]
PM9 w/GD 124g +p. I recently went thru defensive pistol training at one of the nationally renown camps. The main instructor carries a 9mm as a bug, recommended the ammo. That was good enough for me.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 8:47:09 AM EDT
I've read them all. They are just as biased as Winchesters results. I'd rather see what the independant testers have all done.

I do like the claims that the Winchester reps got caught gluing the lead cores back into jackets. Only ATK reps "saw" this, and those werent even Winchester reps, but ammo vendors.

I mean come on, dont'cha kinda think its funny how Winchester RangerT SXT failed all those tests, and HST flew through them? I do. Look at how all of Federals rounds failed in Winchesters tests. I'd rather trust the work of an independant person such as Dr. Roberts, who's tested damn near all loads. Its neat that DocGKRs testing indicated a flaw with these HSTs, and thats why they had to be redesigned, hence HST2.

Pierce County, Portland, and San Diego all said they were interested in a new duty round, and ATK said they'd sponsor the tests, noted all the Federal banners up at each event.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 9:03:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
Crap, I did not know it was time for this thread again.


TXL



I think they're more frequent now.
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 5:32:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2005 9:53:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2005 10:02:37 AM EDT by brandyspaw]
Right now, in 9mm, I'm favoring the Speer 124g Gold Dot. Regardless of the
brand I favor the lighter weight bullets over the 147grain in 9mm so as to keep
the velocity higher.

However, the major consideration is to make sure that, whatever ammo you carry,
that it functions well. The reliability is more important than a few imaginary
percentages of "stopping power". Remember-all handguns are pretty weak
powerwise and, I agree, we sometimes spend too much time worrying about
calibers and magic bullets instead of practicing the most important thing---bullet placement.
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 9:01:56 AM EDT
Anyone have date on the Remington Golden Saber 9mm 147gr. Expansion pic, etc?
comacho
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 12:09:37 PM EDT
What about Corbon 115+P JHP???? I thought that was supposed to be the best??? I used Federal 115 JHP for years and think it is fine as well. It's a non +P round and always seems to group very well and has a pretty decent record on the streets.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 2:29:49 PM EDT
What about TAP ammo? What makes it so great? I found some at a pretty good deal, but want to know what actually separates it from the Gold Dots and Winchester Silvertips I currently shoot.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 7:45:04 PM EDT
Fed HST2 (Gen II) is very good, Gen1 is not. Note that when Federal does LE demos for HST they usually will not include the Win RA9T in their testing, or they will test it in MP5/AR only, not service pistols.

Head to head when fired from service pistols Generation 2 HST2 and RA9T are very close in performance, with a slight preference to RA9T. If you're still using Gen 1 HST you would be much better off with Gold Dot or RA9T.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 7:47:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FedGunner:

Originally Posted By FAIL-SAFE:

Originally Posted By FedGunner:

Originally Posted By rizzo1318:
Well now that I have everyone's opinions, anyone actually have the proof I'm looking for? Gelatin tests, fps tests, etc.?




le.atk.com/pdf/Pierce%20County%20Workshop.pdf

le.atk.com/pdf/San.pdf

le.atk.com/pdf/PortlandReport.pdf

Hope this helps.





All sponsored by ATK, or Federal. Do you think they're gonna be unbiased?



Hey....

You spend the thousands it takes to do this and report back.

Read the reoprts please.... Tell the class how they were "rigged"



Excluding the best performing winchester poduct, RA9T, from the service pistol tests. Things like using the pistol only Win 127Gn +P+ in MP5's or AR's, ect.

RA9T remains the standard by which all others are judged.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:41:52 PM EDT
147 grain SXT.

you already had your answer.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:05:26 PM EDT
Where to buy RA9TA? I can't find it anywhere....

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:52:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 5:54:17 AM EDT by VBC]
It's a po-po cartridge. It's only distributed through police avenues. Rarely finds its way into civilian shops.

Not to be confused with the 147-gr. Winchester SXT "Personal Protection" civilian round you can find at K-Mart and the like. Apparently that stuff is no more effective than throwing rocks.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:43:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Excluding the best performing winchester poduct, RA9T, from the service pistol tests. Things like using the pistol only Win 127Gn +P+ in MP5's or AR's, ect.

RA9T remains the standard by which all others are judged.



Ok....


If you say so.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 12:13:00 PM EDT
I use the Speer 124gr+P Gold Dot load, if I can't get that I use the Remington 124gr+P Golden Sabre load.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 12:16:22 PM EDT
9mm that meets the "FBI's requirement for at least 12" of penetration in gel/soft tissue and will robustly expand even when passing through clothing":

-Winchester Ranger 127 gr +P+ JHP
-Winchester Ranger 147 gr JHP
-Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
-Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP
-Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP
-Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:38:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
It's a po-po cartridge. It's only distributed through police avenues. Rarely finds its way into civilian shops.

Not to be confused with the 147-gr. Winchester SXT "Personal Protection" civilian round you can find at K-Mart and the like. Apparently that stuff is no more effective than throwing rocks.





this is what we're talking about... RA9T.



and it's preferred by, but not excluded to, law enforcement.

it's my theory that they just label it that way to get more people to buy it.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 5:58:00 PM EDT
Nice post...we get issued win white box 147 hp......Have to use Issue ammo
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:17:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stlshot:
Nice post...we get issued win white box 147 hp......Have to use Issue ammo



it's always a good day when ammo's free.


i have pretty level standards for JHP:

big metal chunks, i don't trade off for lighter bullets that rely on velocity to damage, they underpenetrate usually because of their light weights.

they have to possess holes in the front big enough to mix a martini in.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:50:44 AM EDT
Are any of these recommended loads subsonic and supressor friendly? I don't have a can yet but looking to get one for the Glock 17 this comming year so no better time to test some ammo and start a stockpile
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:59:14 AM EDT
Ranger 147 gr
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:00:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
Are any of these recommended loads subsonic and supressor friendly? I don't have a can yet but looking to get one for the Glock 17 this comming year so no better time to test some ammo and start a stockpile



Standard pressure 147 gr loads should be subsonic, 147 gr +P might be transsonic out of a G17 depending on environment.

Even with a can, I stick with the +P 124gr gold dots (1280 fps out of my G19). It's cheap and a proven performer. The sonic crack is a small price to pay in a defensive shooting. For plinking, of course, I use something quieter.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:51:27 AM EDT
Why do so many like the 147 grainer? .45 is big and slow. 9mm is small and fast. With 147 don't you get small and slow?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 4:25:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gks452:
Why do so many like the 147 grainer? .45 is big and slow. 9mm is small and fast. With 147 don't you get small and slow?



+1
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:27:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gks452:
Why do so many like the 147 grainer? .45 is big and slow. 9mm is small and fast. With 147 don't you get small and slow?



i follow the rule of carrying the biggest round you can reliably fire under stress.

9mm is what i can handle reliably in a stressful situation.

the 147 grain is my choice after trying a lot of other rounds. with about 950+ fps (from a 4-inch barrel) for the 147 gr. SXT i don't get too slow. i like the expansion too, size expansion is a reliable .60"+ at over a foot of penetration, not too bad for a 9mm. i can buy it in quantity, consistently and at a comparable price for other defense rounds... so i do.


Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:08:03 PM EDT
If you think you may shoot someone in low light conditions you may want to move away from the Gold Dots. Ranger loads produce the lowest flash in low light that I've seen. The Gold Dot rounds blind the crap out of you.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:27:38 AM EDT
No one else uses Federal 124 grain Hydroshocks?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:35:06 AM EDT
I use 147g WWB JHP. Thats mostly because I can afford to stock up on it and I don't find shooting it much different than the WWB 115g FMJ which is my primary practice round.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 1:17:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ComputerGuy:
No one else uses Federal 124 grain Hydroshocks?



I used to carry them but after reading/seeing how they do not expand reliably I decided to go with something more reliable.

I now carry 9mm 147gr TAP CQ
velocity: 975fps energy: 310fps
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:56:32 PM EDT
I use in my carry gun Federal 124gr. EFMJ +P
Advantages: Feeds as reliably as a FMJ bullet in semi-autos

1110 FPS muzzle velocity

Expands to .460" diameter consistently, unlike hollow points that rely on hydraulic
pressure for expansion. If a hollow point stops up with clothing before it hits fluid
you get the same effect as a FMJ bullet.

I feel carrying a 9mm with this ammo is like carrying a 45acp, only instead of the bullet
traveling at 900fps it is traveling at least 200fps faster!!

Also get less felt recoil and muzzle flip, for better follow up shots.

Of course, none of this does any good without proper shot placement. A FMJ between the eyes is better than the best bullet placed off target.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:10:00 PM EDT
For good info check out this link.
www.tacticalforums.com/

and use the search function.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top