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Posted: 6/20/2017 7:24:09 AM EDT
Here is a bit of quick info on the Remington Golden Saber 185gr fired into a block of 10% gel from Clear Ballistics.  Rounds were fired from a distance of ten feet with a PACT chronograph set up immediately in front of the gel. Pistol used was a full-size SIG P320.

The Golden Saber, at least the non-bonded version, is one of the original hollowpoints made to withstand the FBI testing protocols developed after the Miami Shootout. As such, its performance is well documented and it is generally respected as a defensive bullet. I have tried a few 45 loads in gel but hadn't yet tried the GS and was curious to see if my results would mirror those of other testers.

Anyway here are my results:

Two rounds were fired into bare gel to establish a baseline for velocity and penetration. These two rounds clocked at 1,014 and 1,026 feet per second. Both bullets penetrated the first 16in block but not the second and were resting about halfway out the first block. They were easily plucked out with fingers.

Next was two rounds through two layers of cotton, a layer of fleece and a layer of denim to simulate the heavy clothing test. Velocities here were 983.4 fps and 1,019 fps. Both bullets penetrated right over the 16.5in mark.  Just a bit more penetration than without the clothing barrier.

All four bullets appear to have retained most or all of their original weight with the heaviest being 184.0 grains and the lightest being 183.4 grains.

Bare gel first two on left.

.711 inches of expansion for bare gel.

.696 inches of expansion through the clothing barrier.

Overall the old Golden Saber appears to be a nice example of what endears the 45 Auto to those who choose to carry it.

Thanks for reading.

Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:20:19 AM EDT
[#1]
We were issued the +P version of this round in our S&W 4506 and later our P220ST. The round performed poorly through barriers and did so so through denim but bare gelatin it was impressive. This was not the results from just one test but a few over a couple of years which led us to switch to the Winchester Ranger T both bonded and nonbonded. After 10 years of carrying the 220 we were the first agency in Indiana to go with the 320 but in 9mm.

If barrier performance is not a concern then it may not be a horrible round but I think you could certainly do better. And it could have been the exfra velocity
From being +P was just too much for the nonbonded bullet. The jacket always shed from the core when going through glass  which the only nonbonded bullets that didnt was the Ranger T and HST. Thanks for posting the pics of your work it looks pretty much what we seen in bare gelatin...
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:40:55 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
We were issued the +P version of this round in our S&W 4506 and later our P220ST. The round performed poorly through barriers and did so so through denim but bare gelatin it was impressive. This was not the results from just one test but a few over a couple of years which led us to switch to the Winchester Ranger T both bonded and nonbonded. After 10 years of carrying the 220 we were the first agency in Indiana to go with the 320 but in 9mm.

If barrier performance is not a concern then it may not be a horrible round but I think you could certainly do better. And it could have been the exfra velocity
From being +P was just too much for the nonbonded bullet. The jacket always shed from the core when going through glass  which the only nonbonded bullets that didnt was the Ranger T and HST. Thanks for posting the pics of your work it looks pretty much what we seen in bare gelatin...
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What were you using for a denim test? The IWBA four layers?

It would make perfect sense that the non-bonded doesn't work well against auto glass. This is still the case with some pretty well known bullets from a couple manufacturers.

And while defeating auto glass and sheet metal is an important aspect to LE I wouldn't think it is too big a concern for the average private citizen. But maybe that is becoming more of a worry given what's happened in London recently...
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:52:25 AM EDT
[#3]
The bonded stuff is much better.
Link Posted: 6/21/2017 8:03:36 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


What were you using for a denim test? The IWBA four layers?


And while defeating auto glass and sheet metal is an important aspect to LE I wouldn't think it is too big a concern for the average private citizen. But maybe that is becoming more of a worry given what's happened in London recently...
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Yes, 4 layers of denim at least once that I can remember. The others were done at training using FBI protocol but they could have made revisions to the bullet. The last test was done around '09 before we switched to Ranger T...
Link Posted: 6/22/2017 5:51:43 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:



Yes, 4 layers of denim at least once that I can remember. The others were done at training using FBI protocol but they could have made revisions to the bullet. The last test was done around '09 before we switched to Ranger T...
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I haven't tested a bunch of different bullets, especially not in 45 Auto, but have found most won't expand when fired through four layers of denim. Even many bullets that work well through heavy clothing will plug after the full denim test.
Link Posted: 6/22/2017 7:46:37 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:


I haven't tested a bunch of different bullets, especially not in 45 Auto, but have found most won't expand when fired through four layers of denim. Even many bullets that work well through heavy clothing will plug after the full denim test.
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That's why I don't even bother with bullets not on the FBI list.
Link Posted: 6/25/2017 12:15:16 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
I haven't tested a bunch of different bullets, especially not in 45 Auto, but have found most won't expand when fired through four layers of denim. Even many bullets that work well through heavy clothing will plug after the full denim test.
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Quoted:
Quoted:



Yes, 4 layers of denim at least once that I can remember. The others were done at training using FBI protocol but they could have made revisions to the bullet. The last test was done around '09 before we switched to Ranger T...
I haven't tested a bunch of different bullets, especially not in 45 Auto, but have found most won't expand when fired through four layers of denim. Even many bullets that work well through heavy clothing will plug after the full denim test.
OP, is the 185 grain your carry load? I like heavy for caliber loads in pistols. I would be interested on how the 230 grain bullets would do. I sometimes carry 230grain, standard pressure Sabres in my Commander in the rare occurrence I cannot replace my HST's or Gold Dots... I'm comfortable with them.
Link Posted: 6/25/2017 12:47:29 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:


OP, is the 185 grain your carry load? I like heavy for caliber loads in pistols. I would be interested on how the 230 grain bullets would do. I sometimes carry 230grain, standard pressure Sabres in my Commander in the rare occurrence I cannot replace my HST's or Gold Dots... I'm comfortable with them.
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Is 230gr heavy for caliber?

HST's and Gold Dots are respected across the various caliber offerings and are probably about as good as it gets for handgun ammo.

What I think I might do is gel test the more generic stiff. WWB and the like. This info might be valuable to those on a tight budget. Plus I'm curious.
Link Posted: 6/25/2017 3:52:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Melvin do you do any .40 SW tests?
Link Posted: 6/25/2017 4:15:43 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
Melvin do you do any .40 SW tests?
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Pretty much the only thing I've shot in gel is the 180gr HST. It works nicely.
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 5:49:34 AM EDT
[#11]
I'd send over a few samples if you'd try them.

180gr XTP, 165gr HST, 165gr Golden Sabre. Maybe a couple others.
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