Tag, you've piqued my curiosity as well.

.40 is already considered a "high pressure" round.  You want to add chamber pressure?  Some manufacturers have already simply modified firearms that were designed as 9mm to make .40… only to find out that the original design was not capable of handling .40 cal pressures.

The +p  means 10% over spec pressure, and +P+  means  undetermined amount over spec pressure but greater than simple +p; so could be 11% could be 29.9% AKA "HOLY CRAP HOT", (130% of max is considered a proof load). With the regular pressure early glocks  in .40 were having issues due to the unsupported head so +p really wasn't offered. While regular .38 special works fine in the plastic/scandium revolvers,  and +p is stout, a +P+ load(aka .357 magnum short), would be bad. I would wager ruger could stuff .357 magnum powder charges into a .38 case call it .38 special ++PP++ and safely fire it through a gp100 .38 revolver(given to some security guard companies) but the legal department would trip over themselves stopping it from being marketed because some retard somewhere would stick that same ammo into a .38 special LCR plastic revolver and blow it up.


With .45 the overall round is much lower pressure so it doesn't get as effected as significantly by the +p. 15000 CUP + 25% is  only 19000 ish  , still pretty mild when compared to 40000 CUP +25% (50000 (AKA .357 magnum turf, or some rifles). with 9mm the smaller case allows the pressure to be better contained from what I understand so the higher pressure has less chance of something going wrong due to the more supported case.

DING DING

Heavy .40 +P Smith and Wesson

Heavy .40 +P Smith & Wesson Field Proven pistol and handgun ammo. Maximum firepower ammunition. Best ammunition for pistols and handguns for sale. Buffalo Bore. Strictly big bore. Strictly Business.

With GIANT disclaimer about DONT USE IN GLOCK BARRELS!!! So basically what I said. and buffalo bore is not what I would term a major manufacturer.

Do you want to see flocks of glocks grenade? Because that is how you grenade flocks of glocks.

Simply put, manufacturers who make and sell non-SAAMI approved "+P" ammo are treading on thin ice. Almost anyone can buy such ammo like 380+P, 40+P or 45Colt+P via the Internet or at a retail store and think that it is safe to use in their Lorcin, Hi-Point or cheap SAA revolver with possible dangerous disaster.

Any civil lawsuit against the manufacturer would be a slam dunk as all one would need to do is hire an expert witness from SAAMI to testify why such loads are dangerous and not approved by SAAMI. Winning a couple of million dollars from a lawsuit is little compensation for losing a hand or an eye and being permanently disabled and losing your livelihood. And this is why major ammo manufacturers wisely refuse to make such ammo.

Basically theres enough of the early, poorly supported Glock .40 barrels out there that a) no +p would ever be approved and b) almost all .40 s&w factory ammo is loaded fairly light due to the glock barrel + recoil of .40.

For example, Underwood .40 is not +p, it's just loaded to full SAAMI spec.

Underwood 165gr 1200fps / 528 ft.lbs

Winchester Ranger 165gr 1090fps / 435 ft.lbs

So just loading to full SAAMI gives you 110fps / 93 ft.lbs more then factory.

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Very True, and I totally agree! BB is not a giant manufacturer. They are considered a "Boutique" manufacturer specializing in high quality niche ammo. The most accurate ammo I've ever shot has been from BB. Their .45Super Outdoorsman load is the most accurate handgun ammo I've ever shot. The second most accurate ammo I've ever shot is their version of the old venerable soft cast "FBI Load" in .38Special and their Hard Cast wad cutters of the same caliber. Their QA/QC is top notch. I love that they use Starline brass. Is the ammo overpriced, absolutely! Do they produce a cartridge that you can count on that reaches the pinnacle of a calibers performance? Yes. And will it go bang every time, Yes. I use them exclusively for their Outdoors loads in 9mm, .38Special, and .45Super. Each caliber has it's own niche depending on it's intended use and need of concealment for me.

I would like to go in the other direction...lower pressure 40 loads.

I have wondered why a 9mm 147 load going 950-1000 fps was an awesome load while a 40 cal 165gr HP has to go 1150 (and 155 gr loads clock closer to 1200 fps). It gets old shooting them in 9mm size/ weight guns.

Give me 40SW in 165gr going 950-1000. Make it expand and penetrate like the 9mm 147. Then, we can label the current 1150-1200 fps loads as +P.

Reading this gave me cancer.

The whole purpose of moving up to .40 is to get a more powerful round then 9mm is capable of; the current factory loads are already below their full potential, and you want to make them weaker still?

Yes. I would like 40SW ammo with similar pressure/energy, etc as 9mm. (weaker)

I shoot, train, compete with, and carry the 9mm. In my Glock handguns, (weight- 22 oz) it gives me the best balance of speed and accuracy. I'm most comfortable with around 350 ft/lbs of energy. I'm using handguns for urban/home self defense.

If I carried a 38 oz handgun or was out backpacking in the back woods, I would carry my Glock 23 with full power 40 SW ammo. (I carry Ranger T, Gold Dot, and most recently HST, all in 180)

But, I have always wondered why the 40 needs an extra 200 fps over the 9mm (comparing similar buller weights)... What makes a 147 gr 9mm HST going 1000 ft/sec great but a 40SW 165gr going 1000 limp and flaccid?

I'm not saying that you shouldn't want or have a more powerful 40SW. I'm saying that I want milder self defense loads.

It was a fad for awhile where guys where down loading 40 S&W for USPSA Production division.  180 gr bullet only has to go ~700fps to make Minor.  For shits and giggles I spent a season was doing the same with an XD-45 and 200gr bullets in Production.  Only had to get them going a touch over 625fps (that's like 455 Webley speeds!) to make Minor.  Soft shooting for sure.  If you reload you can do a lot of interesting, pointless, or silly things.

Yeah re-reading my comment, I'm sorry I came off as dickish before. I'm just frustrated with the current state of low powered factory ammo and jumped on you for it, as if you're somehow in charge of ATK. Sorry dude.

I guess the thing is, if you like the recoil and energy of 9mm at 350lbs, why not stick to 9mm? Having a 40 loaded to 9mm energy makes it a lower capacity, heavier ammo 9mm.

Energy is the capacity to do work, so if you load a larger caliber to 9mm energy levels, it will only be able to do a 9mm's worth of work on the target. More energy allows for more work (ie the ability to expand wider and or penetrate more deeply, as well as higher chance of resetting an attackers OODA loop.) Same reason a .357 does more work then a .38 special, or .454 does more work then a .45, despite being the same diameter and projectile weight.

Case in point, here is a 165gr .40 at 1,006 fps (fired from 3" barrel.) Note the 9mm like performance despite the increase in mass and diameter of the projectile.

.40 SW @ 371ft/lbs test

Now the test of the 147gr 9mm, with 371ft/lbs of energy:Nearly the same as the .40

So with the same energy profile, 9mm and .40 perform the same. The only way to out perform 9mm is to use more energy so that the projectile can perform more work.

Since the entire point of .40 is to outperform 9mm, loading them to the same energy levels is...a bummer.

I agree with you actually. So going back to the OP, it would be beneficial to have a standard 40 load that may be a little milder, along the lines of that Win 165 Ranger Bonded doing 1000 FPS load above. And hotter loads, including a +P and maybe a +P+. (I used to carry Cor-Bon 40 "+P" loads back in the '90's) Personally, I have moved past the 40, back to 9mm, but I still have a lot of 40 cal guns that I enjoy. It's an excellent cartridge. IMO a better "killer" than 9 and 45. But it can be a handful in lighter guns and being snappy is a common complaint.

It's never a bad thing to have more powerful ammo, especially if it was clearly marked and delineated with +P etc.

I think rather then advertising full power loads as +P, the milder loads should be marketed as "Tactical Low Recoil" similar to the way some 00 buckshot and slugs are rated.

Meanwhile, if you are looking for a mild 165 @ 1,000, Sig's V-Crown seems to be loaded to -P levels 1,030 fps from a 4.5" barrel:
Sig V crown .40 Test

Sig seems to be about the -P lifestyle, their signature cartridge, the .357 Sig, is loaded like a 9mm +p, 125gr @ 1260 fps.

Personally the .40's days seem to be numbered, but the round I would have liked to have seen would be a 158gr @ 1250fps / 548 ft/lbs. That would have duplicated the ballistics of the .357 magnum 158gr load, but would have had wider expansion and a more reasonable penetration depth.

+P40 is called 10mm.

Edited for redundancy...

Reload and get what you want....

They did. It's called 10mm

Ga Arms makes a +P .40 SD round in 155gr, 165gr and 180gr weights. The bullets are bonded Gold Dot JHPs. I have a P229 in .40 that I bought back in 2013 when ammo was scarce. I was able to buy a bunch of the 155gr +P stuff from Ga Arms so I have shot a lot of it. It is a very hot round, (1200FPS). I have shot this in a G23 and an SP2022 with no problems. My P229 in .40 is all I have left of my .40s but if I were to start carrying .40 the 155gr +P would be my go to.
GA Arms

.45 is a low pressure cartridge.

9mm as we know it is less than 9mm NATO spec.  Basically 9mm +p = 9mm NATO.

In short there is safety room to play with where there isn't with .40 S&W.