So lately I've been carrying and stocking up on the Winchester Ranger RA9B 147gr bonded hollow point. This ammo runs great in my Gen 4 19 MOS bit I'm wanting to also stock up on a lighter load. So do I go Gold Dots or HST? 115, 115+p, 124, or 124+p? I used to carry the 124gr +p Gold Dots but am wondering about going lighter with the 115gr.

The other ammo I'd like I'd the Corbon DPX. Anyone know where to find that stuff though?

Why do you want a lighter load?

Agreed.  HST 147gr gets my vote.

Cannot go wrong with GDHP or HST

But lighter load doesn't make a lot of sense.

Less penetration in certain circumstances.

147gr HST all day long, even on Sunday and Holidays

147 gr HST

This. I don't ever switch  mine out.

No love for Hornady?  I keep critical duty +P (135gr) in my bedside G34 (5" barrel) and critical defense (115gr) in my EDC Ruger LC9 (3" barrel)

I like that the critical defense is designed for shorter barrels whereas the critical duty is for full size.  For the G19 4" barrel I'd probably go with the slightly heavier critical duty in +P for the added power.

I see that Hornady's self defense ammo is focused more on speed versus weight.  I guess it depends on what is important to you but I trust that the Hornady engineers went this route for a reason.  I know bullets open up more reliably at a higher speed, so I guess it amounts to whether you want reliable expansion or just more weight downrange at the sacrifice of speed.  It is noteworthy that the critical duty +P rounds advertise a MV of 1110FPS ... that is only 70fps shy of a light and fast 155gr 40 cal load!

From Hornady's website comparing the two:
"Critical DEFENSE® is not intended for use in extreme (law enforcement) situations that require superior barrier performance.* However, the FTX® bullet will expand reliably and will not clog like standard hollow point bullets when fired through heavy clothing.* In addition, Critical DEFENSE® ammunition IS optimized for short barreled, concealed carry style handguns"

"Critical DUTY® handgun ammunition is built to meet the needs and requirements of LAW ENFORCEMENT and TACTICAL PROFESSIONALS, as well as those law abiding citizens who prefer a full-size handgun for their personal protection and demand superior barrier penetration and subsequent terminal performance.*"

I guess it comes down to use.  If I'm carrying 17 or more rounds, I want some barrier performance because I simply have the rounds to use them that way.  If I'm only carrying 6+1 in my smaller subcompact, I probably won't be wasting rounds through barriers so I'd rather have a round that's optimized for the shorter barrier and terminal performance.  Either way, I like that Hornady offers stuff for both.  

I guess I'm a Hornady fanboy.

ETA here's a link to their website where they compare the two.  It's worth reading if you're shopping for self defense rounds so that you can see the philosophy on the two different offerings, even if you're not going to go with the red box: http://www.hornady.com/support/critical-duty-and-critical-defense

Another vote for 147 HST.

124 +P HST or GD for me in most.  124 GD in BHP at home (not CCW)

RA9T here. Got a bunch in a deal a while back.

I love my Gold Dots but after I cycle though what's left of what I stocked up on years ago I'll probably be moving to HSTs in 124 or 147 grain flavor.

I prefer 147's. All the way from vintage Black Talons...to todays +p Gold Dots.

But I will admit to a fair amount of Federal 115 BPLE +P+ in the inventory.

My preferred loads are:

147 HST
124 +P Gold Dot
147 Ranger T (when I can get it)

What he said, I bought a 1K case of it.

Yeah, no.  Critical Defense was designed by Hornady to underpenetrate on purpose.  On the theory that non-police didn't need the FBI/IWBA minimum 12" of penetration.

I certainly wouldn't spend good money on a product designed to fail.

Stop listening to local gun store and Walmart salesmen.
Critical defense is designed for SB, concealed carry.
Critical Duty is for full size duty type barrels.
To answer the original question, 124 grain standard pressure HST carries the same energy as the 147+P HST. I never got into the heavy for caliber things, but do what is right for you.
Critical Defense

9BPLE

This is a technical forum, take your attitude and BS back to General Discussion.

There was a long article in American Rifleman when Critical Defense came out.  Hornady was bragging about how they intentionally DESIGNED it to UNDER-PENETRATE compared to the FBI standard.  

It's specifically designed to open up early and penetrate 9-10 inches instead of 12-18.  Dispute it all you like, but that is a fact.  It's designed to fail on purpose.

Energy is not really a wounding mechanism with pistol calibers, as long as there is sufficient penetration and expansion.
The 147 will penetrate deeper with similar expansion, while still being subsonic, even the +p version.
If those things do not matter to you, then go with the 124 gr.

147gr Gold Dot or HST is the way to go

If you insist on a lighter load, the Critical Duty 135gr+P is a good load

Gold Dot or Critical Defense, 124gr or 135, standard or +P.

None of my guns have had issues with 147gr, but some won't feed the longer bullets.
If I didn't read the Internet, I wouldn't have even known that the new hotness was 147gr.

Lucky Gunner Ammo Test

Gold Dot's in 9mm expanded 0.42 to 0.55" (you can sort the columns, in this case by "ammo" to look at all the Gold Dot together.)
Sort by expanded diameter and you will see the Gold dots are all in the bottom half of expansion.  12 rounds are 0.60" or more and meet min penetration.

Lucky Gunner was tested in short barrels.  Here is some data I put together with mostly manufacturer data (and I think all full sized guns).  You can see (out of all the Gold Dots) only the 147g Gold Dot met min penetration in bare gelatin.  (Grey shaded boxes indicate did meet 12" min penetration)



Don't pick ammo based on a "good" name, or what people on ARFCOM have picked.  I'd really look at the data.  I originally decided to stock up on Gold Dot since I could easily remember the name and is was considered "good" ammo.  Then I did more research...

Living in Florida, heavy clothing is less likely to be a factor, so I chose HST 147g.  If heavy clothing is a concern, the 147g Ranger T is your best option.

ETA: not sure why you "also want a lighter load".  If anything, being in Kansas, I would suggest get 147g HST and 147g Ranger T.  Load the HST in summer and Ranger T in winter based on what you would expect criminals to be wearing.  That makes sense rather than just picking something heavy and something light.  If you can't find either of those, then go down the lists and get the most effective ammo you can obtain.

ETA: you'll notice on Lucky Gunner the Ranger Bonded, that you stocked up on, over penetrates and under expands.  The Ranger "T" would be better in both bare gel and heavy clothing......

147 HST is all I carry.  

Handgun ammo, especially smaller calibers, fail to perform perfectly quite often.  No need for less performance on purpose.

Another vote for Federal HST 147!

Stick with the RA9B, or any 147 gr bonded hollow points, they perform to the FBI penetration standard of 12-18" more consistently than lighter 9mm loads (147 gr Gold Dots for me)

I just picked up a S&W 9C for carrying. I've carried a 1911 .45 for the last 8 years, but it is heavy and of course bulky. I went through a box of 115gr 9MM I grabbed when I picked the pistol up. My thought was buy cheap bulk 115gr FMJ to shoot in the back yard and get a box of good defense rounds for the nightstand and when carrying.

As I read this thread I saw a lot of discussions about carrying heavier loads for defense and how it depends on what clothes a bad guy is wearing. Considering I've always carried .45, I guess my understanding of 9MM is less than I thought. Are you all training/plinking with the same weight you carry? I ask because I found 115gr to be a lot less expensive in bulk.

How noticeable is the difference between firing a 115 and 124? To me, coming from .45 shooting the 9MM is significantly "easier" and lighter. So maybe, the difference between 115 and 124 is less of a concern than the difference from 230 to either of the smaller rounds.

micro gun, 124+p GD...full size, 147 HST...

"Critical DEFENSE® is not intended for use in extreme (law enforcement) situations that require superior barrier performance.* However, the FTX® bullet will expand reliably and will not clog like standard hollow point bullets when fired through heavy clothing.* In addition, Critical DEFENSE® ammunition IS optimized for short barreled, concealed carry style handguns and will not deliver excessive recoil and associated “muzzle flip.”
*As defined by the “FBI Protocol” handgun ammunition tests."

Actually I think they are pointing out that the lighter bullet isn't going to penetrate through barriers like the heavier critical duty round.  It makes sense for me to continue carrying the critical defense in my LC9 because it's a belly gun, not for situations where I'll need to shoot through barriers and the critical defense's design (bullet weight included) is emphasized more for reliable expansion out of a short barrel.  I have the critical DUTY +P in my bedside G34 which holds 17+1... I see myself much more likely needing that to shoot through walls/doors/windows.  

It looks like the critical defense has a lighter jacket that will open up more easily whereas the critical duty has a heavier bonded jacket that will stay together through barriers better, but may not open up as much.

Wouldn't you agree that opening up early is a good thing?  You're putting a lot of weight on "The FBI standard" being the end-all-be-all of defense rounds. I think this tactical videospeaks to the level of expertise the FBI brings...

Why, exactly, would it be a good thing on anything larger than a varmint?  On small game you want the round to expand as quickly and violently as possible.
On larger game, expanding too much too soon is a bad thing, because even though it may leave a nasty cavity, it may also mean that you didn't penetrate enough to reach vitals.
Penetration in gel is not equivalent to penetration in flesh, bone, etc.

Vitals are only a few inches under the surface of the skin...

You didn't read my last line, people aren't just made of squishy clear gel.
Please read THIS before offering any more opinions on terminal ballistics and gel tests...

Wow. You've got a lot of catching up to do.

Of course this is the correct post.

That is an excellent article. I think we've all learned a lot from that guy.

Funny I thought 147 grain 9mm was light, ha. Since I usually carry a 230 grain 45acp handgun with 15 round mags, the bullet weight really adds up, ha. I don't notice as much a difference between the 124 and 147 grain 9mm rounds, but either will work fine. I think 115 grain is too light though personally, still hurt though I'm sure. Really pistols don't gain that much velocity, so it's generally better to carry the heaviest round you can. That's my personal take on handgun rounds though of course. Everyone has their own opinions. But yeah Federal HST is some impressive stuff. Any modern hollow-point should work fine though really. 

147 GDHP. It's what I stocked up on a long time ago. I'm sure it will do fine if I ever need it

I've always had success with 147 gr. Golden Sabers.

Good article. That's why I emphasize penetration over expansion; shot placement and sufficient penetration are paramount, all else is secondary.
All handguns are relatively poor 'stoppers' and underperform, some underperform worse than others. No need to make things worse by using bullets that may not penetrate deeply enough.

Tomac

Seeing I just bought two boxes of 135grn Critical Duty 9mm, this thread has made me happy.