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Posted: 3/26/2014 10:17:04 AM EDT
Ted said that he used a Glock 20 10mm with armor pierceing bullets to help bring down a Cape Buffalo.
Been trying to fine some of this ammo but for the life of me haven't been able to locate any.
Anyone  know what I'm talking about

Thanks as alawys
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 10:23:28 AM EDT
[#1]
From the ATF website:

Under Title 18, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 44 as amended by Public Law 103-322
The Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (enacted September 13, 1994) 18 U.S.C. CHAPTER 44 § 921(a)(17)(B) the term 'armor piercing ammunition' means --

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

(C) The term 'armor piercing ammunition' does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Secretary finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.


§ 922(a) It shall be unlawful --


(7) for any person to manufacture or import armor piercing ammunition, except that this paragraph shall not apply to --


(A) the manufacture or importation of such ammunition for the use of the United States or any department or agency thereof or any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof;
(B) the manufacture of such ammunition for the purpose of exportation; and
(C) any manufacture or importation for the purpose of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary; and


(8) for any manufacturer or importer to sell or deliver armor piercing ammunition, except that this paragraph shall not apply to --

(A) the sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer of such ammunition for the use of the United States or any department or agency thereof or any State or any department agency, or political subdivision thereof;
(B) the sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer of such ammunition for the purpose of exportation;
(C) the sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer of such ammunition for the purposes of testing or experimenting authorized by the Secretary.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver--


(5) any firearm or armor-piercing ammunition to any person unless the licensee notes in his records, required to be kept pursuant to section 923 of this chapter, the name, age, and place of residence of such person if the person is an individual, or the identity and principal and local places of business of such person if the person is a corporation or other business entity.
§ 923

(a) No person shall engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or importing or manufacturing ammunition until he has filed an application with and received a license to do so from the Secretary... Each applicant shall pay a fee for obtaining such a license to do so from the Secretary... Each applicant shall pay a fee for obtaining such a license, a separate fee being required for each place in which the applicant is to do business, as follows:


(1) If the applicant is a manufacturer-

(A) of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $1,000 per year;

(2) If the applicant is an importer-

(A) of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $1,000 per year.

(e) ...The Secretary may, after notice and opportunity for hearing, revoke the license of a dealer who willfully transfers armor piercing ammunition...

(k) Licensed importers and licensed manufactures shall mark all armor piecing projectiles and packages containing such projectiles for distribution in the manner prescribed by the Secretary by regulation. The Secretary shall furnish information to each dealer licensed under this chapter defining which projectiles are considered armor piercing ammunition as defined by section 921(a)(17)(B).
View Quote


TL,DR: You aren't going to get newly manufactured AP ammo in the US unless you work for a government agency that issues it.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 10:27:03 AM EDT
[#2]
Probably some hardcast Buffalo Bore.



Take anything crazy uncle Ted says with a grain of salt, sure he loves guns, he's on our side and does a lot of good stuff, but I wouldn't exactly call him "knowledgeable"
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 10:29:00 AM EDT
[#3]
What they said.


Link Posted: 3/26/2014 10:30:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Two possibilities here...

#1.   Ted is full of shit, and used a standard fmj or hard cast bullet.

2.    Since Cape Buffalo are not native to North America, he did get his hands on some actual AP ammunition and used it over seas where the ATF has no authority.      Without a source, or the rest of the story, your guess is as good as mine.
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 10:31:42 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Two possibilities here...

#1.   Ted is full of shit, and used a standard fmj or hard cast bullet.

2.    Since Cape Buffalo are not native to North America, he did get his hands on some actual AP ammunition and used it over seas where the ATF has no authority.      Without a source, or the rest of the story, your guess is as good as mine.
View Quote


I thought about #2, but AP pistol ammo is usually relatively light and fast, not exactly what you want for deep penetration in a big critter.
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 10:33:29 AM EDT
[#6]
Probably not the brightest feat he's ever tried........
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 11:13:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Probably some hardcast Buffalo Bore.

Take anything crazy uncle Ted says with a grain of salt, sure he loves guns, he's on our side and does a lot of good stuff, but I wouldn't exactly call him "knowledgeable"
View Quote


Or stable.
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 11:33:36 AM EDT
[#8]
He probably shot some scrap with it and decided if it goes through a pan/car/oven it's armor piercing.
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 12:33:02 PM EDT
[#9]
I call BS.





Cape Buffalo with a handgun?  I'd say maybe, using my S&W 500 magnum with 700-grain bullets.   "Up close."  





10mm AP?  No f*cking way.
 
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 1:05:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I call BS.

Cape Buffalo with a handgun?  I'd say maybe, using my S&W 500 magnum with 700-grain bullets.   "Up close."  

10mm AP?  No f*cking way.

 
View Quote


"Help bring down" probably means run up and stick it in his ear and pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 5:57:45 PM EDT
[#11]
I saw the shot on a YouTube video. He stuck one with a bow and they chased it around for  a while. He actually made a hell of a shot with the pistol and brought it down. It was nowhere near sticking it in the ear and pulling the trigger.

All that being said, he is crazy as a truckload of chickens and there is no way the ammo was literally armor piercing.
Link Posted: 3/26/2014 5:59:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I saw the shot on a YouTube video. He stuck one with a bow and they chased it around for  a while. He actually made a hell of a shot with the pistol and brought it down. It was nowhere near sticking it in the ear and pulling the trigger.

All that being said, he is crazy as a truckload of chickens and there is no way the ammo was literally armor piercing.
View Quote


Link?
I didn't know it was filmed, I was just guessing

ETA: Found it, Glock action around 12:45

"Custom made armor piercing 180gr solid projectiles" he says.

Link Posted: 3/27/2014 5:27:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Keep in mind;

There is "Armor Piercing" as defined by legislation and interpreted by ATF AND there is "Armor Piercing" as defined by performance of actual ammunition fired from actual firearms at actual targets.

Also, "Armor" is an ambiguous term. Are we talking about soft body armor vests offering NIJ- level IIa,II, IIIa or III protection OR are we talking about hard ceramic or AR500 steel plates in a carrier OR are we talking about thick steel armor used on vehicles and hardened positions.

FWIW- Surplus Czech 7.62x25 fired from a handgun will zip right through Level IIIa soft armor and was perfectly legal to import before it all dried up.

10mm can be pushed to speeds fast enough that you could make a "legal" non-AP bullet of sufficient design to penetrate most soft armor vests.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 7:32:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I call BS.

Cape Buffalo with a handgun?  I'd say maybe, using my S&W 500 magnum with 700-grain bullets.   "Up close."  

10mm AP?  No f*cking way.

 
View Quote


10mm can kill  CB.

A shot to the head / ear will kill most anything

The 10mm has plenty of penetration  when using FMJ/HC lead


Link Posted: 3/27/2014 6:12:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Keep in mind;

There is "Armor Piercing" as defined by legislation and interpreted by ATF AND there is "Armor Piercing" as defined by performance of actual ammunition fired from actual firearms at actual targets.

Also, "Armor" is an ambiguous term. Are we talking about soft body armor vests offering NIJ- level IIa,II, IIIa or III protection OR are we talking about hard ceramic or AR500 steel plates in a carrier OR are we talking about thick steel armor used on vehicles and hardened positions.

FWIW- Surplus Czech 7.62x25 fired from a handgun will zip right through Level IIIa soft armor and was perfectly legal to import before it all dried up.

10mm can be pushed to speeds fast enough that you could make a "legal" non-AP bullet of sufficient design to penetrate most soft armor vests.
View Quote


This.
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 11:09:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Link?
I didn't know it was filmed, I was just guessing

ETA: Found it, Glock action around 12:45

"Custom made armor piercing 180gr solid projectiles" he says.

http://youtu.be/EcTiIfBbJ_c
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I saw the shot on a YouTube video. He stuck one with a bow and they chased it around for  a while. He actually made a hell of a shot with the pistol and brought it down. It was nowhere near sticking it in the ear and pulling the trigger.

All that being said, he is crazy as a truckload of chickens and there is no way the ammo was literally armor piercing.


Link?
I didn't know it was filmed, I was just guessing

ETA: Found it, Glock action around 12:45

"Custom made armor piercing 180gr solid projectiles" he says.

http://youtu.be/EcTiIfBbJ_c


Cutting Edge Bullets makes a 190 grain monolithic copper solid for the 10mm Auto.

Which should penetrate game very well.  But are not in any way "AP".

Agree Ted is
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 12:03:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Started to listen to his music in 78. love strangle hold. Been  to 2 concerts.

Teds cool and all and I'm glad he hunts like all men should.!

But I don't want him representing me the regular gun owner / permit holder..
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 12:09:06 PM EDT
[#18]
He shot it multiple times and according to him in the neck.
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 7:36:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


10mm can kill  CB.

A shot to the head / ear will kill most anything

The 10mm has plenty of penetration  when using FMJ/HC lead


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I call BS.

Cape Buffalo with a handgun?  I'd say maybe, using my S&W 500 magnum with 700-grain bullets.   "Up close."  

10mm AP?  No f*cking way.

 


10mm can kill  CB.

A shot to the head / ear will kill most anything

The 10mm has plenty of penetration  when using FMJ/HC lead





Same can be said for a 22LR, does that make it a CB gun? Nope. 10mm against something like a CB is beyond idiotic, period.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 7:35:11 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Same can be said for a 22LR, does that make it a CB gun? Nope. 10mm against something like a CB is beyond idiotic, period.
View Quote

Did the job for Ted, and with the usual backup carrying the big guns he could afford being adventurous. It did start out as a bow hunt after all.
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