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Posted: 12/31/2005 3:40:54 PM EDT
In the market for a 40 and was looking at two pistols. A new Sigma and a Smith /Walther??? combo pistol. Are they both pretty much the same except for the walther style mag realease and reaplaceable back strap deals??The Sigma is cheaper. I have a older 380 Sigma for pocket carry.

On the trigger pull issue. On other forums I have heard of removing one of the double springs and drastically lowering the trigger pulls. ????

I am really interested in the Sigma line for price... A good dependable 40 for 300 bucks!! And I have always had good service with the other Smiths I have owned. I will use these pistols as "stash" guns. Eventually having one concealed in each vehicle and in my fab shop. Besides, I really like the way they fit my hand. I think Glocks are so freakin uggly. Everytime I see one I think of "planet of the Apes" where the mokey told the man she would kiss him but.." you are just so damn ugly!"
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:43:48 PM EDT
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_(letter)

Yeah... I'm an ass, but at least I can make my links hot.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:02:21 PM EDT
I have a SW40VE which I really like. It's accurate, reliable ( so far ) and will shoot any ammo I put in it. I think the Sigmas get a bad rap from the early models which I hear were pieces of crap. I used a Wolfe Spring to reduce my trigger pull, makes a difference but not alot.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:02:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 5:04:45 PM EDT by toxic]
This ones for you JackA$$

Figuratively buffoon - a fool, idiot, clown. Some of this usage derives from the alleged stupidity of the donkey, and some of it from "asshole".




Thanks CentralVahunter. Wolfe springs seem to be a solution to several pistol makes.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:29:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 7:11:50 AM EDT by Hawgleg44]
I've owned or been issued eight Sigmas. I used to shoot Glocks, but after being issued a Sigma, then picking up a few on my own, I ended up trading all five of my Glocks away. They just don't feel right in my hands. And, I shoot cast bullet reloads, so the Glocks isn't the best choice.

First off, here are some of the "problems" reported with the early Sigmas. I have only experienced one of them, and that was the cracking frame. EVERY early Sigma I've owned has cracked on me. But, S&W stands behind their products and replaces it with a currently produced Enhanced Sigma under warranty.

1st and 2nd Generation Sigmas were known for cracking frames in front of the SN plate on the bottom of the dust cover. They start out small, then get larger, but never effect the functioning of the pistol. The addition of the equipment rail made the frame more rigid, and there has not been a single Enhanced Sigma returned to S&W for a cracked frame. Problem solved.

There were many broken strikers in the early 1st/2nd Gen Sigmas. That's because they used the Glock-style loose tolerance chisel tip strikers. I'm assuming it's due to the recoil and vibration which causes the breakages. I don't know, ask Glock since their G19's have been doing this at an alarming rate with the Glucks in service in the NYPD. To the point of NYPD threatening Glock with the cancellation of their contract (with one being awarded to Ruger instead) unless they worked at fixing the problem. Right now, there are three full-time armorers working at the NYPD firing range attempting to correct this problem. S&W solved the problem with the Enhanced Series by redesigning the entire system with a round striker, with all the parts machined within .002". Again, no more broken strikers reported.

Some ejection problems were reported. The ejection port was lowered and reshaped. Again, problem solved.

They did some cosmetic changes, which included moulding checkering to the sides of the grip portion of the slide and rounding the top edges of the slide. They also added a loaded chamber indicator, which amounts to a hole in the slide/barrel so you can see the rim of the chambered cartridge.

I own, have owned, or been issued these Sigmas: SW357V, SW40F, 2-SW9F's, SW40V, SW40VE, SW40G, SW9VE and SW9GVE. I have shot tens of thousands of rounds out of them, and I have had one, yes, only ONE malfunction. I had one FTE in my issued 1st Generation SW40F. But, at that time, I had over 8000 rounds of mostly cast bullet reloads with Unique powder through it. I'd have to say that one in >8000 rounds is an acceptable number. In all of the other Sigmas, both older and Enhanced, I have never, EVER had a malfunction of any kind.

Some people dislike the Sigma's trigger and say it's too heavy. It's right around 12 pounds, the same as a Sig DAO. For some reason, it's deemed excellent in the Sig (which I don't agree with at all, especially since the Sig has a much longer trigger pull), but people don't like it in the Sigma since you pay less than $300 for it.

There is a trigger mod detailed on the S&W Forum. I strongly advise against it, and my reasons are posted in that thread, several times. For a range ONLY toy, fine, but reliability may suffer. By doing this, you are reverse-engineering your Enhanced Sigma to an early 1st Generation gun.

After about 500 rounds/dry fires, you will find the trigger smoothes out considerably. If the pull is difficult for you, I have a simple way to train with it, and it has not failed anyone yet:

Just sit in your room, at the computer, watching TV, whatever, with your UNLOADED Sigma (had to throw that in there). Just practice a slow, consistant trigger press while keeping the sights aligned at a spot on the wall. Just keep on doing this, over and over and over again, for weeks. By concentrating on the sight picture and keeping it on target all the way through the trigger travel, you will find your hit ratio at the range improved dramatically. And, as an added bonus, your trigger will be smoother at the end of it.

The early Sigmas were not as bad as some people want you to think. In fact, I'll still pick them up when I find a good deal on them. But, the Enhanced Sigma is refined to the point that it's truely an improved Glock. It has cut rifling so cast bullets are completely safe (where shooting cast bullets in a Glock void the warranty, AND could cause the famed Glock KaBoom!). Sigmas have ample chamber support, so reloads and high pressure ammo is completely safe. No bulged cases like the Glock, and I've NEVER heard of a Sigma KaBoom! The grip angle is natural on the Sigma. It aligns naturally, unlike the Glock.

And, I don't know if anyone else has this problem, but with my big hands and a two thumbs forward grip, the left side of the slide always cuts my hand during recoil. I've always shot with a high grip, but I've not had this problem with any other pistols.

When it comes to the SW99/P99, it just doesn't fit me as well as the Sigma does. None of the interchangable backstraps fit me just right, and, although the trigger pull is lighter, it doesn't feel as good as the Sigmas. The SW/P99 is probably going to start to get phased out if the M&P catches on, but the Sigma is expected to last.

Do I feel the Sigma is the best pistol that S&W makes? No, I'd have to give that title to their 3rd Generation autos. But, for the price, I'll always have at least one Sigma in both 9mm and .40, but usually more than that.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:10:55 PM EDT
WOW! Thanks for the tutorial! I gues I will pick up the 40 enhanced for 300 new instead of the P99!!
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 9:03:10 PM EDT
A few distributors had some SW40G's turn up lately. They are about $70 more than the standard VE/GVE. They have the green frame with a black slide and a front Trijicon night sight. They were dropped from normal production, but S&W released some within the past few months. Here is what the "G" model looks like.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:47:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 6:47:51 PM EDT by Srigs]
Love my 40VE!

Here is a pic of mine.


Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:35:41 PM EDT
i got to play with a nib sigma 40ve just yesterday and get to shoot it mon.............i will probably owne one soon!!!
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:55:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ak4784:
i got to play with a nib sigma 40ve just yesterday and get to shoot it mon.............i will probably owne one soon!!!



Good for you! It will take some time to get use to unless you have shot DA rev in the past. Also the trigger will smooth out with @ 500 rounds and a fair amount of dry fire.

Because of its good ergonomics, I shoot this gun the most accurate one handed.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 12:26:02 PM EDT
I'm getting another SW40VE in trade soon, too. I traded my last one away, but I'm getting one a lot nicer in trade. My last one had a lot of holster wear on it. This one is like new.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:49:09 PM EDT
I had a SW9VE that was my first handgun and it was fine. The gun handles and points very well. Mine had a few problems with light hits but nothing too bad. My friend bought a SW40VE at the same time and we could never get through a single mag without at least one failure to feed. After sending it to Smith he sold it off to another friend (cheap) who had better luck with it.
I also have had to send back (when I worked at a gun store) quite a few for broken strikers (once 3 in a 5 week span).
However, I also know a good number of people who have been happy with them.
IMHO, they are too hit or miss, but if money is a issue it might be a reasonable choice. It seems that Smith does take care of the troubles when they happen.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:19:43 PM EDT
I'm assuming that the broken strikers were for the earlier, pre-Enhanced Sigmas. From the info I've heard from S&W, not a single Sigma has been returned for a broken striker since the improvements. They did break frequently when they used the Glock type chisel tip, loose tolerance striker.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:57:49 PM EDT
If I remember correctly there was one older model and two newer (VE) models. The tail that engages the drawbar snapped off.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:22:16 PM EDT
you wont find a better deal than this one.hy.gif

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?item=42596647
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 6:25:06 AM EDT
I had a 9mm that was a POS. It would not run through more than 4 rounds in a row without a FTF or FTE. I had it worked on by two different smiths and finally got rid of it.

I find the triggers to be overly heavy on all of the Sigmas.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 7:16:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
I had a 9mm that was a POS. It would not run through more than 4 rounds in a row without a FTF or FTE. I had it worked on by two different smiths and finally got rid of it.



Instead of having local gunsmiths work on it, why not just call S&W directly? They will send you a free shipping label, fix or replace the pistol, and ship it back to you for free! They have the best customer service in the industry. The only cost to you would have been your gas going to UPS to have it sent out!

On the rare occasion that S&W makes a Sigma lemon, they fix the problem right away, no questions asked.

I have several thousand rounds, mostly of my cast bullet reloads, through my SW9VE without a single failure.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:37:48 PM EDT
I had an early model Sigma in 40S&W (purchased in '94). I never experienced any stoppages or had any problems with the pistol whatsoever. I have to admit, I never did and still don't like the trigger on the Sigmas. Maybe it is a personal thing, I don't know. I thought the Sigma pointed very well and accuracy was acceptable (I would also say that my accuracy issues were most likely shooter related and not firearm related).

I would recommend the Sigma over the Walther/Smith simply because I believe the Walther/Smith partnership is going away.

If you can wait a couple months, you might want to look at the new M&P. I have heard good things about this pistol. I would guess it will cost a couple hundred bucks more than the Sigma however.

Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:29:06 AM EDT
I have a S&W 40V that I bought in '97. I was told I could dry fire it like the Glocks. I dry fired it and the firing pin broke in 2002 or so. I called S&W and they sent me a fed ex package to ship it in and they fixed it. They said dry firing was ok, but didn't explain why the pin broke. So the service was good, it just made me nervous to have firing pin break with less than 1000 rounds in it at the time.

I don't like the trigger on my model. It is a long trigger. I've got a Glock and I am much happier with that trigger. But that's a personal thing. I have had a few malfunctions, but I can't remember what kind and it may have been the ammo.

I personally like the gun for target practice and it seems like a lot of gun for the price ($225 in '97). I am happy with the warranty--they'll just fix it with no questions asked. But from my experience with it, I will not use it for my primary firearm. Maybe the newer models are better--I've never shot them.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:05:05 PM EDT
If something ever happens to your 40V, it will now be replaced with a new VE model. They stopped stocking parts for the older ones. I can see why, they had their problems, although the cracked frame was the only one I ever encountered. But, like you said, I just brought it back to them (I live only about a half hour from the factory), and they replace it with a NIB Enhanced Sigma.

The customer service at S&W is the BEST in the industry. Show me another company who pays for shipping TO them also!
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:01:12 PM EDT
Going tomorrow to get my permit and a new Sigma in 40 SW will follw me home Monday The M&P just did not seem like enough to warrant extra money over the standard model..
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:30:10 AM EDT
After reading the post on the broken frame I cleaned my SW40V that night. It was fouled up pretty good after training at Tiger Valley. I was shocked to see that the frame was broken just below the muzzle--a 3/4 inch crack. It must be a problem with the stress on the plastic. Odd because that is not the first time I shot with it. I called them and they told me to send it in. They didn't provide the shipping this time, but as long is it is fixed I will be happy. We'll see what happens.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:25:12 PM EDT
Let us know how it turns out!
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:31:25 PM EDT
in 700+ shots I have never had a problem.

Only problem I had once was catching my hand while dry firing it.. My fault, not its.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:35:31 PM EDT
A common mistake when shooting a Sigma pistol is to use the pad of your trigger finger instead of the joint.

Shoot the Sigma like you would a double-action revolver and you will be amazed at the accuracy and control that this pistol has.

BTW, I have a like-new Sigma SW357V for sale. Please email me for details.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:43:38 AM EDT
Can someone provide a link to the S&W Forum?
I searched for it but can't seem to hit it.
Thanks!
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 12:20:19 PM EDT
http://smith-wessonforum.com
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 7:52:48 PM EDT
Update:

I sent my handgun to SW by UPS in early February. This time I had to pay for the shipping, but it was only about $8. I received the hangun by UPS today. My ship to them was about 5 days and their ship back was 3. One thing I don't like is they don't tell you that they receive your gun or what they are going to do.

The nice thing is they replaced the frame, no questions asked, and it appears that the internal frame parts are all new. The slide and barrel are from my old 40V. One part of the letter states the gun is a SW40V (with new serial number), but a label identifies it as a SW40VE. This is probably because the frame is the newer VE but the slide is stamped 40V. I like the new frame and I'm happy they replaced it. The crack was fairly minor, but still a crack. I give their warranty a good grade. The best part is the new warning on the frame--> capable of firing with magazine removed! I almost forget that part every time I put it away.h.gif

I'll give it a work over at my next training class in April. The gun has some nice features. I like the slide release, the ease with which magazines fall out, and ease of loading magazines. But I'm still not fond of the trigger, even when using the joint rather than the pad of the finger. The pull is too long and leaves room for error. Overall, good gun for the money.
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