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Posted: 12/16/2005 5:54:34 PM EDT
Man am I mad!!! I went to buy an ankle gun today, and decided that a S&W 642 would be perfect. I decide to buy one, the clerk pulls it out of the case and then I spot it!!! the stupid internal safety lock!! OK, I'm a little behind, it's been awhile since I've bought a new gun. I decide to do some research on the net before buying. I then stumble across several posts from reputable sources stating there have been instances where the actions have locked up while using full power +P loads. I go back to the store and look for other options, pissed that S&W has sold out to the left wing liberal, gun haters!!! You know what the clerk says????!!! he says, well, as long as you don't shoot hot +P ammo out of it, you should be ok?? Should be ok!!?? what???!!! What the Hell happened to S&W?? they were like apple pie, Chevrolet and Mom in my book. They caved in!! sold out!!! they made a deal with the Devil and installed a lock that could very well jeopardize the american citizens these guns were forever built to protect!!!!! Jesus, I am pissed!! So, I decided to buy a Ruger SP101 instead and I'm glad I did. S&W should be ashamed, and go hide their sellout heads in shame. I encourage everyone to NOT BUY ANY S&W arms with the internal lock. Obviously people still do and don't care. But for those of you who count on a gun to protect you and your family, S&W has let us down and sold themselves and us out. I will never own another S&W and hope others will think of this before they do! I realize this is probably old news to many, but I just found out today, and I am ashamed of S&W and will never own another they make me sick.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:33:25 PM EDT
There is plenty of older, pre-lock examples out in circulation still----just look around.
But I agree, I have 8 S&W 357's--none with a lock--and I never will have one with it.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:22:18 PM EDT
There have been exactly two instances of S&W's with internal locks locking up prematurely. Yes, I agree that it's two too many. But, even the .460 magnum and .500 magnums don't lock themselves up.

The only two reported were a model 329 (.44mag Scandium frame) shooting a full power load, and a scandium J-frame .357 mag, with full power loads.

I had a 442 with the internal lock. I shot standard pressure and +P ammo through it in every weight available, and never had a problem.

If the lock bothers you that much, you can always just take the hammer out and grind off the tab sticking up on the side. That way, the lock can be in any position and it has nothing to engage. It's completely disabled.

S&W was bought from the Brits by the owner of Safe-T-Hammer, a manufacturer of aftermarket locks for handguns. Did you really think that he would not install one of his locks on EVERY handgun S&W makes? It has nothing to do with liberal views. It has to do with business. The owner of S&W was in the handgun internal lock business long before he owned S&W.

Anyway, if I had a choice, I would buy a pre-lock S&W. But, I wanted a 317 snubby, so I bought one. No, it hasn't locked itself. In thousands of rounds, my 442 never locked itself. But, I would think twice about having the lock on a Scandium framed .357 magnum or larger handgun.

If the clerk at the shop told you not to shoot +P's, he's completely uninformed, and just spewing idiotic statements out of his trap. With a .38spl, you would have nothing to worry about.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 8:18:10 AM EDT
Well I dont think you'll be disappointed with the SP101. Ruger does make good revolvers, reliable and built like a tank.

This is probably a silly question, but: Is the internal lock something that can be removed? On 1911 style guns I think all that is needed is to replace the mainspring housing with one that doesnt have a lock. So is there anyway to take it out?
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:52:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 5:54:53 PM EDT by seeyouinvalhalla]
All's well that ends well, I bought a Ruger SP101 with a 2 1/4" barrel. I LOVE IT!!!! It's heavy enough to tame the recoil of full 357 magnum loads but not too heavy to be very comfortable on my ankle in a Galco ankle glove. I was going to search for a pre internal lock S&W 642, but didn't even bother. S&W is dead to me, they are traitors to the second amendment PERIOD!!!! I wouldn't even feel good about owning an older S&W, they disgust me. I'm buying two more Ruger revolvers this month, a Super Redhawk .44 and an Alaskan 480 (just for fun) I was really suprised at how accurate the SP101 is at 20-25 yards. I'm glad I bought it instead of a Smith & Wesson.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:19:14 PM EDT
seeyouinvalhalla- Glad you are happy with your Ruger. They make a good SA and rimfire auto, IMO.

Anyway, if S&W is a "traiter to the 2nd Amendment" because they put a lock on their autos, you should stop buying Rugers, too. They have now incorporated a lock on their new production handguns, like the new Vaquero, P345 and MKIII, just to name a few.

But, if you feel better buying a Ruger without a lock, then good for you. As for me, Ruger "is dead to me!"

Oh, BTW, there is a forum marked "Ruger" that you may be interested in.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:25:23 PM EDT
The same Ruger that only sells 5 round Mini-15 mags, and 10 round pistol mags?

Oh! revolvers dont use mags. Nevermind.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:04:15 PM EDT
I guess I know who is buying new S&W's now. Everybody has to pick a team, looks like you've picked yours. Hopefully if you ever have to deploy your internal safety lock weapons they will work for you when needed. I'm just not willing to risk it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:15:42 AM EDT
I haven't "picked a team". I have S&W's, Rugers, Sigs and Colts. One of my Rugers and one of my S&W's has an internal lock. My S&W and my Ruger have both always worked.

I hate the politics of Ruger who will only sell full capacity rifle mags to LE agencies. IMO, they are the traitors to the 2nd Amendment, arming LE's and handicapping non-LE's. Now, if you feel that an internal lock (which Ruger is incorporating in EVERY handgun they design/redesign), then that, added to their anti-civilian magazine policy, you should REALLY hate that company! RUGER REALLY PULLED ONE OVER ON YOU! YOU'RE DEALING WITH AN ANTI-2ND AMENDMENT COMPANY, PROBABLY THE WORST ONE IN AMERICA!!!!

Now, we all know what you think of the 2nd Amendment by supporting a company like that!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:24:27 PM EDT
The SP101 I just bought brand new has no internal lock that I can find. Please tell me where it is located. If what you say is true, and my new SP101 has an internal lock I overlooked, then I will gladly retract my statements.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:28:49 PM EDT
If you read my post, it says that Ruger is adding it to every new gun they design, or redesign, if you consider the MKIII a redesign of the MKII.

Pretty soon, they will have them on every gun. When they redesigned the Vaquero, that was one of the additions.

Between that, and Ruger's attitude towards full-cap mags for non-LE's, they are the worst anti-2nd Amendment gun company in the US. Especially since Bill Ruger went through negotiations with the anti's to make sure his Mini 14/30 was left off of the AWB. Part of that deal was not EVER selling full-cap rifle mags to non-LE's.

So, the Ruger/Clinton gun company is the worst out there for supporting gun rights.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:22:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawgleg44:

S&W was bought from the Brits by the owner of Safe-T-Hammer, a manufacturer of aftermarket locks for handguns. Did you really think that he would not install one of his locks on EVERY handgun S&W makes? It has nothing to do with liberal views. It has to do with business. The owner of S&W was in the handgun internal lock business long before he owned S&W.



I thought that the Brits recently sold S&W, and it is now under American ownership again. If that's true, I wonder what the chances are of the new owners doing away with the locks?
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:53:55 AM EDT
The new owner is Saf-T-Hammer (if two years ago is considered "new").

But, hey, look what I bought brand new a couple of weeks ago . . . a no-lock 37-2 (perfect for that ankle-gun seeyouinvalhalla was seeking).







According to what the wholesaler, RSR, told a dealer that I talked to, these were overruns from some foreign government purchase (Japan, they said) - the foreigners didn't want the locks, either. Anyway, I got into a brand-new, no-lock S&W airweight for $389 - I'm a happy boy.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:44:33 PM EDT
I understand what you mean. I have almost 30 various Smiths (mostly revolvers) but hadn't bought any for the last 12 years or so as I have been more into SIGs, 1911s and black rifles.

I had wanted the new Smith M22 (in 45 ACP) Thunder Ranch revolver in blued, 4 inch
barrel. Until I went to buy one, that is, and realized they had the dreaded internal LOCK.
I just couldn't bring myself to buy it. No way will I spend $6-7 hundred
bucks for a gun with an internal lock. Its bad enough having a lock in the box but an
internal lock in a gun is an abomination.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:53:27 PM EDT
I actually had one of the idiot locks self-activate on me (admittedly only after I oafishly knocked my unloaded 60-15 off the counter onto a hardwood floor), so I'm really not wanting one. I'm glad to have found my brand new 37-2!
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:24:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By seeyouinvalhalla:

S&W is dead to me, they are traitors to the second amendment PERIOD!!!! I wouldn't even feel good about owning an older S&W, they disgust me. I'm buying two more Ruger revolvers this month, a Super Redhawk .44 and an Alaskan 480 (just for fun) I was really suprised at how accurate the SP101 is at 20-25 yards. I'm glad I bought it instead of a Smith & Wesson.




Might I suggest you not read the arfcom thread about Bill Ruger & the AW Ban then???? Otherwise, you'd not buy any American made guns.

As for your hatred of S&W, more for me then. Especially the older, used blued models like the 19s, 25s, 28s, 27s, etc. etc.

Trigger locks are a fact of life in this day of litigation, sir. Now with the new law passed in the Congress giving mfgrs immunity from nusance suits, perhaps this might resolve itself? Otherwise, vote with your wallet.

Personally, I blame a good deal of the AW Ban on Bill Ruger's shoulders as he quickly jumped to the aid of the gun banners. S&W, on the other hand, got screwed by their English owners at the time.

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:55:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By seeyouinvalhalla:

S&W is dead to me, they are traitors to the second amendment PERIOD!!!! I wouldn't even feel good about owning an older S&W, they disgust me. I'm buying two more Ruger revolvers this month, a Super Redhawk .44 and an Alaskan 480 (just for fun) I was really suprised at how accurate the SP101 is at 20-25 yards. I'm glad I bought it instead of a Smith & Wesson.




Might I suggest you not read the arfcom thread about Bill Ruger & the AW Ban then???? Otherwise, you'd not buy any American made guns.

As for your hatred of S&W, more for me then. Especially the older, used blued models like the 19s, 25s, 28s, 27s, etc. etc.

Trigger locks are a fact of life in this day of litigation, sir. Now with the new law passed in the Congress giving mfgrs immunity from nusance suits, perhaps this might resolve itself? Otherwise, vote with your wallet.

Personally, I blame a good deal of the AW Ban on Bill Ruger's shoulders as he quickly jumped to the aid of the gun banners. S&W, on the other hand, got screwed by their English owners at the time.




+1 because of what Bill Ruger did I will never buy a ruger product. Granted the Internal lock bothers me, but anyone who actively goes out and campaigns to limit my constitutional rights has no business making a living off of my dollars.

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 8:07:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 8:08:03 PM EDT by seeyouinvalhalla]
Thank you for the info!!! Ruger sucks too then, dirty bastards. I guess my main agenda now, is just to avoid any weaponry with smart gun technology altogether. It will mean used guns only from now on, but I really have a problem with funding sympathizers like S&W and I guess Ruger too! We all need to make our position known with our $$$$ If these companies end up gone, they got what they deserveed. The SP101 I bought shoots real nice, and does not have any internal ocks, but after learning about the Ruger politics, I wish I would have found a used one somewhere, I hate putting money in the pockets of the enemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 9:32:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jollyroger:
Well I dont think you'll be disappointed with the SP101. Ruger does make good revolvers, reliable and built like a tank.






I think he wants a gun, not a tank. Rugers are for those who aren't picky about their guns, IMO.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 9:45:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 9:47:02 AM EDT by gus]

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By jollyroger:
Well I dont think you'll be disappointed with the SP101. Ruger does make good revolvers, reliable and built like a tank.






I think he wants a gun, not a tank. Rugers are for those who aren't picky about their guns, IMO.



Just because their political BS sucks doesn't mean they don't know how to build a good revolver. I have an SP101 .357 snubbie that I bought used probably 10 years ago, and I'd put it up against any similarly configured S&W, point for point. The Ruger is stronger (but slightly heavier), equal or better in reliability, and has equal or better accuracy. I've put at least 500 full power loads and a thousand or more .38 Specials through it, and carried it much of the last ten years, with absolute confidence. Nothing against S&W - if the pistol I bought had happened to be a SW instead of the 101, I'd have still bought it and likely had the same results.

ETA: I also own a S&W 686-6, and it's a fine revolver. I can't see where it's vastly superior to an equivalent Ruger though.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:20:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:

Just because their political BS sucks doesn't mean they don't know how to build a good revolver. I have an SP101 .357 snubbie that I bought used probably 10 years ago, and I'd put it up against any similarly configured S&W, point for point.




You would lose whatever bet you would care to make on that; whether it's accuracy, balance, resale value, whatever.

Personally, I would be ashamed to own a Ruger in anything other than maybe a Red Label or Vaquero.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:35:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 3:41:26 PM EDT by gus]

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By gus:

Just because their political BS sucks doesn't mean they don't know how to build a good revolver. I have an SP101 .357 snubbie that I bought used probably 10 years ago, and I'd put it up against any similarly configured S&W, point for point.




You would lose whatever bet you would care to make on that; whether it's accuracy, balance, resale value, whatever.

Personally, I would be ashamed to own a Ruger in anything other than maybe a Red Label or Vaquero.



Oh well, I have a sample of each, you only have an opinion. It obviously matters a lot more to you than it does to me. If you'd be ashamed to own a Ruger (assuming it's for the political reason) then to make any exception including a Vaquero would be hypocrisy. As for me I'd buy another SP101, if I found as good a deal as I got on this one, assuming this one would ever wear out.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:52:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:

assuming it's for the political reason




Ever hear what happens when one "assumes" something??????????????
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:54:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 3:56:02 PM EDT by Moe-Ron]
"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."

About Bill Ruger


Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:57:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 3:58:47 PM EDT by gus]

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By gus:

assuming it's for the political reason




Ever hear what happens when one "assumes" something??????????????



I guess I just read your prior post, where you brought up the whole political thing..... (which I agree with, BTW).
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 9:01:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 9:02:25 PM EDT by brandyspaw]

Originally Posted By Moe-Ron:
"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."

About Bill Ruger






Every gun owner should read the above article from the Gun Zone.

I've been getting rid of my Ruger rifles over the last few years for other reasons (like they just won't shoot as well as Remingtons and Savages) but it looks like I should have been getting rid of them for this reason.

Bill Rugers actions were shocking to say the least.
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