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Posted: 4/24/2003 9:01:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2003 4:42:09 AM EDT by MRW]
I'm toying with buying a 92 style pistol, and I prefer the frame mounted safety of the Taurus. I'd like to use surplus 15 round Beretta mags in the Taurus, but the mags are not interchangable without some work. The Beretta mag catch is milled down on the face so it has a narower engagement catch, and the mags have a smaller latch hole. Can I easily swap out the stock Taurus mag catch for the Beretta?

I'd rather modify the gun than have to modify every mag I buy.
Link Posted: 4/24/2003 10:15:22 PM EDT
The mag catches are completely different between the two. The Taurus started as an exact clone of the Beretta, but back then the mag release was at the bottom of the grip. After the two went their seperate ways they both moved the mag catch but since they each did it on their own the designs are completely different.
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 4:46:23 AM EDT
Well, I work PT at a shooting range and I looked at both of them real close last night. The mag catch hardware seems to be almost identical except for the size of the post that engages the mag.
If I can't swap out parts, could I simply file down the Taurus catch so it will fit the Beretta mag?

Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 10:27:21 AM EDT
Trust me, they're completely different.

I've considered filing the Taurus catch like you suggest but just never gotten around to it. If you try it please let everybody know how it works because I'm sure we're not the only people interested in this.
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 12:12:00 PM EDT
I wouldn't even advise to purchase a Tarus, they are cheap rip offs of the Beretta. If you want to get a Beretta clone I would just say save up the extra cash and buy a real Beretta.
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 1:56:17 PM EDT
what I really want is a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9mm carbine with a matched pistol. The KTs take either Glock, Beretta, SW, or Sig mags. I want to use highcaps with the system, and I prefer the Glock pistol format. But preban Glock mags are $100 a pop. I can't stand SW autos, the trigger is too long on Sigs, and Kel-Tecs have a really heavy DA triger pull. So I was thinking about the Beretta. Surplus 15 round mags are $10-15, and I can live with the Beretta platform, but like an uncluttered slide.

So that's why I want to use Beretta mags in a Taurus without modifying the mags. The mags have to also work in the KT carbine.

If KT would just make a sub 2000 in .45 that takes 1911 mags (or Para!) my problem would be solved.

Or one that took XD mags, as that is my 9mm platform.
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 4:37:20 PM EDT
Doesn't the XD use Beretta mags?
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 5:02:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mb121:
I wouldn't even advise to purchase a Tarus, they are cheap rip offs of the Beretta. If you want to get a Beretta clone I would just say save up the extra cash and buy a real Beretta.


I don't know where you got your informatiuon, but Taurus trumps Beretta. Beretta initially bought Taurus and retooled them from a producer of barely functional wheel guns to an out-of-country Beretta tooled plant that made exact copies of Berettas straight down to the quality. Beretta began to have some serious financial troubles and divested themselves of the Brazilian plant in order to remain liquid enough to survive. Taurus continued along their new path and started to make better quality weapons than beretta because they didn't have to cut any corners due to financial problems like Beretta did.

After having fired both Beretta 92 and Taurus 92 series pistols I can say with confidence that Beretta is of no better or still slightly lesser quality than the Taurus, and Taurus will rebuild your weapon for free if it ever needs attention. They have hands down the best warranty of any gun maker of which I am aware, and they are extremely nice on the phone to boot. Will Beretta rebuild your pistol for free? Nope. I will take a Taurus, thanks.
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 5:44:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2003 6:13:36 PM EDT by Jim_Dandy]

I don't know where you got your informatiuon, but Taurus trumps Beretta. Beretta initially bought Taurus and retooled them from a producer of barely functional wheel guns to an out-of-country Beretta tooled plant that made exact copies of Berettas straight down to the quality. Beretta began to have some serious financial troubles and divested themselves of the Brazilian plant in order to remain liquid enough to survive. Taurus continued along their new path and started to make better quality weapons than beretta because they didn't have to cut any corners due to financial problems like Beretta did.

WRONG. More like "where did you get your information?" Beretta never "bought" Taurus EVER. Beretta had a contract with the Brazilian armed forces in the seventies to supply them with the 92 pistol. Taking advantage of Brazil's cheap labor force in order to stay within the limits of their contract and the Brazilian Government's ability to pay, Beretta set up a plant in-country. When the contract ran out, Beretta sold the facility to Taurus.

Bangor Punta (part of the Lear Siegler empire), concurrently owned S&W and Taurus at one time. THEY brought Taurus quality to what we know today.

Right from the Taurus website:

"In the meantime, Smith & Wesson had been purchased by a conglomerate named Bangor Punta. In 1970, Bangor Punta also purchased 54% of Taurus. Thus, the two companies became 'sisters.' Smith & Wesson never owned Taurus. They were both independent companies. However, during the next seven years, a great deal of technology and methodology was passed between the two. What may come as a surprise to some is that more of what was 'right' in Porto Alegre was sent to Springfield than was sent from Springfield to south of the equator.

1977 saw our present ownership buy 54% of Taurus outright from Bangor Punta. At once a quest to improve overall quality of Taurus product was initiated. Also, the company now began a dynamic expansion program.

Beretta had won a huge contract in 1974 to produce small arms for the army of Brazil. Part of the deal was that Beretta construct a Brazilian factory and use Brazilian labor. This they did, in the southwestern coastal city of Sao Paulo. When the contract ran out in 1980, Beretta sold the plant, literally 'lock, stock and barrel,' to Taurus. Taurus now owned everything that once belonged to Beretta, including drawings, tooling, machinery, and a very experienced work force. Taurus was in the pistol business, and immediately sought to improve on the Beretta design, resulting in the popular and acclaimed Taurus PT-92 and PT-99 9mm pistols."

CLICK D LINK
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 6:06:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By soylent_green:

Originally Posted By Mb121:
I wouldn't even advise to purchase a Tarus, they are cheap rip offs of the Beretta. If you want to get a Beretta clone I would just say save up the extra cash and buy a real Beretta.


I don't know where you got your informatiuon, but Taurus trumps Beretta. Beretta initially bought Taurus and retooled them from a producer of barely functional wheel guns to an out-of-country Beretta tooled plant that made exact copies of Berettas straight down to the quality. Beretta began to have some serious financial troubles and divested themselves of the Brazilian plant in order to remain liquid enough to survive. Taurus continued along their new path and started to make better quality weapons than beretta because they didn't have to cut any corners due to financial problems like Beretta did.

After having fired both Beretta 92 and Taurus 92 series pistols I can say with confidence that Beretta is of no better or still slightly lesser quality than the Taurus, and Taurus will rebuild your weapon for free if it ever needs attention. They have hands down the best warranty of any gun maker of which I am aware, and they are extremely nice on the phone to boot. Will Beretta rebuild your pistol for free? Nope. I will take a Taurus, thanks.



I'd gonna have to side with Soylent Green. Taurus has GREAT customer service and a great warranty policy. I'll take a Taurus any day over a beretta.

Link Posted: 4/25/2003 9:15:22 PM EDT
This question recently was asked on assweb and here's what I said there:


As of something like 20 years ago, Taurus was making the same pistol as Beretta. These are some very early 92s with the safety on the frame and the magazine release in the European position at the bottom of the grip.

In response to the US military's requirements the mag release was moved to the American position and the safety was moved to the slide as part of an upgraded safety and an included decocker. They have also made tons of other design changes that are not as obvious. Little details like changing the radius in the corners of the cutouts in the side to reduce the chance of cracking from fatigue.

Taurus has also made changes. They moved the mag release to the American position but since this was done on their own the design is much different than what Beretta uses and no parts of the release are interchangable. They also upgraded their safety lever to decock the pistol but their design is not as foolproof as the one on the Beretta. I'm sure they've also made some other small design changes but I don't know what they are.

I have a couple of Beretta 92s and a Taurus 100 (.40). While I like the safety lever on the Taurus, it is second to the Berettas in every way and if you spend a little time holding each of them in a gun shop you can easily tell which is which even with your eyes closed. The Beretta has the Bruniton finish (basically Teflon over Parkerizing). Compared to the Taurus the Berreta feels 'dehorned'. The slide on the Taurus has very sharp edges esp. on the slide serrations while the Berettas are just slightly beveled. Most importantly is how well the slide moves on the Beretta. The Taurus feels normal while the Beretta feels like the slide is running on bearings. At the Beretta factory the slide and frame are too tight to cycle by hand when they are first assembled. They have a big hydraulic machine that cycles the slide several hundered times in a few seconds to make it right. Two other differences to note. The barrel on a all Beretta is either hard chrome lined or stainless steel while the barrel on a blued Taurus is regular carbon steel. Also, Beretta has several variations available. There's the Vertec with its smaller grip, accessory rail and dovetailed sights that are easier to replace. There's the Brigadier with its heavier slide and dovetailed sights. There's the Elite pistols for competition work.

Link Posted: 4/26/2003 8:12:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
Doesn't the XD use Beretta mags?




DOH!

I came to the same SUDDEN realization last night!

The XD can use modified beretta mags. The mag catch notch is in the front of the mag for the XD, so a new mag catch would have to be cut-no problem. The Beretta mags stick out of the bottom of the XD by about an 1/8th of an inch.

What I'm curious about now is if XD mags will fit the Sub 2000. They're a bit shorter than Beretta mags, so the bottom of the sub2000 grip will have to be shortened, and I'll have to cut mag latch holes in the mag, but it might work. For those of you that don't know, a 40 cal XD mag can be stuffed with 14-15 rounds of 9mm and used in the 9mm XD.
Link Posted: 4/26/2003 6:20:52 PM EDT
It would appear that Jim_Dandy is trying to make me cry. Well I won't! I won't damn it!

Anyway, that was the story given to me by a buddy when I was deciding on a 92 or a 92. I didn't bother to research it for one reason. my Dad had gotten a Taurus .22 wheelgun about six months earlier from a pawn shop. The firing pin was blunted. so I called Taurus and asked if i could send it in. The little Florida sweetie on the other end said "Sure.", so i did. They rebuilt the Mike Foxtrot and never asked for a dime. New everything. I sent them a letter of thanks, and they sent me a letter saying essentially, "Hey, we love our customers."

Does your history change anything substantially with regards to the Taurus vs. Beretta debate? Nope. Bottom line, Taurus hits every time I point it at what I want to hit. The only pistol I ever had that was more boring than the Taurus was a Sig P226. They both go bang when I pull the trigger and hit exactly where I want out to 30M. What more could anyone want in a military/combat/carry pistol? You can say Beretta Beretta Beretta all you want, but at the end of the day, the Beretta difference is more money, inferior customer service, and nothing more.
Link Posted: 4/26/2003 6:37:13 PM EDT

Does your history change anything substantially with regards to the Taurus vs. Beretta debate? Nope.

Uh, yeah, it does somewhat. You tried to equate Beretta and Taurus as being one and the same. NEWS FLASH: THEY'RE NOT.

Taurus dummied up by differing their pistols from the more universally accepted Berettas. That makes for some nice parts interchangeability issues. Customer service means nothing when you can't interchange parts on a design that began, more or less, as a COPY.
Link Posted: 4/26/2003 7:10:14 PM EDT
Well, pardon me for jumping in...

I like the Taurus better, but the fact that it won't easily use the ubiquitous Beretta 15 round mag sours my interest in it.

Why would they do that? The mag is the most important "part" to interchange, and it's not like the mag design is patented.

I bet they'd sell a lot more pistols if folks could use hicap Beretta mags in them.

Any decent 15 tound Taurus mags out there?
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 8:21:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 8:22:51 AM EDT by TaranScorp]
I own 7 30 rnd mags that have the notch cutout so it fits both guns, the Beretta and the Taurus and works fine with both guns. You can duplicate this cutout on either the Taurus or Beretta mags. I own two Taruses and two Berettas and these mags work in all four.

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