Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 8/19/2010 7:30:27 PM EDT
I realize the QC issues related to Sig may be overblown, but it got me to wondering...especially after owning two poorly manufactured Sig 556 rifles and one jacked up 220ST. When did Sig CQ take a nose dive and have they corrected the problem?

Currently I own a older German 228, a 2008 production 226 and a 2009 production 239. Neither of the newer guns have frames or slide marked "Made in Germany". Both have barrels marked "DE" which I think signifies German mfg. and both are Exeter guns.

I've read, that all 9mm P239's are German made, but I don't think that is the case, or the pistol would have to be marked as such.

So, when did things start going downhill? Neither of my newer pistols have seen much use, so I can't say that they've been 100% reliable (well, I guess I could, but 200 or so rounds doesn't cut it.)

Also, what kind of cost cutting measures, shortcuts and changes in manufacturing methods could I look for in order to ID newer pistols? For instance, I noticed that the triggers on my newer pistols are hollow in back, while my German 228 is solid.

Educate me.
Link Posted: 8/20/2010 5:38:56 AM EDT
IMHO, 2008.

A lot of guns are being made in Exeter these days. Some guns, like the .40SW P226, were never 100% German but came with German frames. This is not the case now either. My P239 .40SW that I purchased this year was made in Exeter. A lot of barrels are no longer made in Germany, if you get a DE marked barrel it is probably old stock.

The issues with components mostly come down to MIM parts made in India. Sig used MIM before they moved manufacturing to India but the quality was better and the parts were well finished. I put a 2002 hammer and sear in my 2009 P226 SCT for this reason––the original was rough and gritty, the older parts (low round count) were smooth as silk! The 2002 part was marked with Sig's German logo, the new parts aren't.

The other issue is that QC has taken a back seat to volume. Barrels are no longer proof fired and many guns are leaving the factory with function or assembly issues. These guns would have been caught prior to 2008 and fixed before they left leaving a perception of poor quality.

Sig is paying dearly for all of this, I only hope they figure it out.
Link Posted: 8/20/2010 5:43:18 AM EDT
I have a SIG 220 that was shipped from the factory with the wrong recoil spring.
Link Posted: 8/20/2010 12:44:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2010 12:50:13 PM EDT by mike128]
When did the current CEO move from Kimber to Sig? Kimber's QC also went down when he took that company over.

Ron Cohen is his name. A perfect example of Wall Street in today's time. Jack up the profile and profit to make the bonus. Then when the company is failing and the name is degraded, jump ship and start over again.
Link Posted: 8/20/2010 3:39:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 1:12:32 AM EDT by natew73]
IMO it was about the time they started putting rails on everything. Then they started using the stupid short trigger but that's just me.
Link Posted: 8/20/2010 8:15:53 PM EDT
has that asshole been fired yet?

are the new ones still having issues?
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 7:34:10 AM EDT
FWIW I have 2 Sigs.

Sig 1 is a 2003 German made but US assy and proofed single sn Model P228 with K Kote. Pistol is pretty much flawless and is smooth as glass. Has a circle "P" on the barrel lug proofing. The only thing I have done is added Trijicon sights.

Sig 2 is a brand new US made P229R. I have tried but just can not find issue with the US made frame or slide. The barrel has no proof showing. It is tight and smooth and laser accurate. Came with Meprolite sights. Has never given any ammo problems and no jams or issues in over 500 rds.

I still like the slimmer/lighter P228 a little better but the P229 with a mounted TLR-1 light and a 20rd Sig mag stoked with CorBon 147 JHPs is next to the bed each night.

They are not all bad.
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 5:55:13 PM EDT
I have read some about 229 extractor breakage . I just dont like parts that are not milled on Sigs. I looked at some of the new ones and they looked great , and I think some of the problems are certain model related. They definately have the good triggers and excellent Mec Gar large capacity mags. I am going to stick with older stock 2006 and before made pistols, and J.P. Sauer Eckernforde pistols. ––X-Line. My view is ––HK for protection, CZ for fast accurate shooting, and Sig for target range shooting. I have yet to find any pistol that can shoot equal to a Sportstock or X-Line Sig. for accuracy and capacity. Quality control that is out ,and cannot be visually seen ,is what I worry about on pistols .
Link Posted: 8/23/2010 7:39:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2010 7:42:09 AM EDT by SPTiger]
I'd love to add a P226 to my collection but I won't buy a new one. Maybe I'm just overreacting to the negative stuff I've heard, but it sounds like Sig has done what many other companies have done: foregone quality for the sake of profit. That's not exclusive to firearm companies either.
Link Posted: 8/23/2010 9:08:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPTiger:
I'd love to add a P226 to my collection but I won't buy a new one. Maybe I'm just overreacting to the negative stuff I've heard, but it sounds like Sig has done what many other companies have done: foregone quality for the sake of profit. That's not exclusive to firearm companies either.


There are plenty of old ones floating around out there and at good prices. Don't let Sigs current quality issues stop you.

Link Posted: 8/24/2010 12:59:09 PM EDT
I'm soooooo f****** pissed at Sig!!!!!! I'll make this short since I have little time. I have 12 pre 2004 Sigs that are flawless. My last 4 new Sigs were all jam-o-matics. Sent 2 of them to Sig and they came back with the same problems. The range I worked at had to send almost all of their Sigs back for various problems. This is well doccumented on the gun boards and Sig started thier downward decent in 2004 when they hired Rob Cohen. Google him and read up what he did to Kimber and he did the Same to Sig by cutting corners and raising prices. It's also ashame what he did to the Wonder Warrior Foundation.

Sig is still my favorite gun but I don't drink the kool-aid anymore and pretend that they are still the best pistols made because they simply SUCK these days(new pistols). F*** you Ronny boy!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 2:51:59 PM EDT
In my experience buying and selling them, 2004 or 2005 is when things went to shit. The prices also jumped to HK levels. I made the switch. Still love my old 1999 P239 though...
Link Posted: 8/26/2010 4:41:25 PM EDT
Hmmm. I have 6 of them, all built in 2008, 2009, or 2010 except one, and they all work fine.

Only one malf. It was a failure to fully chamber in a P220. It appeared that a burr on the rim on the case (which had been shot and relaoded 4 or 5 times already) got hung on the way up underr the extractor.

Other than that, perfect function.

Love the triggers.

Haven't seen any service guns that appear any nicer.

Link Posted: 8/26/2010 7:18:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Skip237:
Sig is paying dearly for all of this, I only hope they figure it out.


Nonsense. The perception of poor quality is limited to a small segment of the gun buying population. The average joe still associates Sig with top-notch pistols (which is arguable). They were failing financially before Cohen came onboard, now they aren't. That is success to them.
Jay
Link Posted: 8/26/2010 7:19:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By togadelic:
has that asshole been fired yet?

are the new ones still having issues?


Why would he be fired? He made the company more profitable.

Jay
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 5:46:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
Originally Posted By Skip237:
Sig is paying dearly for all of this, I only hope they figure it out.


Nonsense. The perception of poor quality is limited to a small segment of the gun buying population. The average joe still associates Sig with top-notch pistols (which is arguable). They were failing financially before Cohen came onboard, now they aren't. That is success to them.
Jay


Uh, you may want to check the Sig forum here and that other Sigforum that's not here.

Anyone who is serious about an expensive gun is doing some searching and looking for opinions. $1k is a lot to spend on a pistol without research.

They also just lost a big contract which is also big news.

They may have some short-term wins but it will be offset by long term losses when their reputation catches up with them. I for one am done buying new Sigs. I won't deal with it anymore. Given my purchase history they are out one sale every 2.5 years.

Most folks who are buying rifles aren't buying overpriced Sigs...
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 7:43:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Skip237:
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
Originally Posted By Skip237:
Sig is paying dearly for all of this, I only hope they figure it out.


Nonsense. The perception of poor quality is limited to a small segment of the gun buying population. The average joe still associates Sig with top-notch pistols (which is arguable). They were failing financially before Cohen came onboard, now they aren't. That is success to them.
Jay


Uh, you may want to check the Sig forum here and that other Sigforum that's not here.

Anyone who is serious about an expensive gun is doing some searching and looking for opinions. $1k is a lot to spend on a pistol without research.

They also just lost a big contract which is also big news.

They may have some short-term wins but it will be offset by long term losses when their reputation catches up with them. I for one am done buying new Sigs. I won't deal with it anymore. Given my purchase history they are out one sale every 2.5 years.

Most folks who are buying rifles aren't buying overpriced Sigs...


Again, people who post on web forums area small percentage of the gun-buying population. I, for one, can't believe how many people I've heard bragging about dropping a grand on a Blackwater 226 or something similar.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your perception of their quality drop, I'm just saying that it doesn't stop most people from buying them.

Jay
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 3:29:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
Originally Posted By Skip237:
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
Originally Posted By Skip237:
Sig is paying dearly for all of this, I only hope they figure it out.


Nonsense. The perception of poor quality is limited to a small segment of the gun buying population. The average joe still associates Sig with top-notch pistols (which is arguable). They were failing financially before Cohen came onboard, now they aren't. That is success to them.
Jay


Uh, you may want to check the Sig forum here and that other Sigforum that's not here.

Anyone who is serious about an expensive gun is doing some searching and looking for opinions. $1k is a lot to spend on a pistol without research.

They also just lost a big contract which is also big news.

They may have some short-term wins but it will be offset by long term losses when their reputation catches up with them. I for one am done buying new Sigs. I won't deal with it anymore. Given my purchase history they are out one sale every 2.5 years.

Most folks who are buying rifles aren't buying overpriced Sigs...


Again, people who post on web forums area small percentage of the gun-buying population. I, for one, can't believe how many people I've heard bragging about dropping a grand on a Blackwater 226 or something similar.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your perception of their quality drop, I'm just saying that it doesn't stop most people from buying them.

Jay


I hear what you're saying. People are still buying GM...

When I'm about to spend $1k for something I hit the books and listen to people. I want to know what they know and how they would make the decision. But there are people who just jump before they look....
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 4:08:32 PM EDT
I have a "Made in Gemany" Herndon, VA 226 that I bought in '89 and has had probably less than 700 rounds through it.........I guess I should hold on to that one.
Actually, that's the one gun I have that I always said I'd never get rid of.
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 5:04:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Skip237:
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
Originally Posted By Skip237:
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
Originally Posted By Skip237:
Sig is paying dearly for all of this, I only hope they figure it out.


Nonsense. The perception of poor quality is limited to a small segment of the gun buying population. The average joe still associates Sig with top-notch pistols (which is arguable). They were failing financially before Cohen came onboard, now they aren't. That is success to them.
Jay


Uh, you may want to check the Sig forum here and that other Sigforum that's not here.

Anyone who is serious about an expensive gun is doing some searching and looking for opinions. $1k is a lot to spend on a pistol without research.

They also just lost a big contract which is also big news.

They may have some short-term wins but it will be offset by long term losses when their reputation catches up with them. I for one am done buying new Sigs. I won't deal with it anymore. Given my purchase history they are out one sale every 2.5 years.

Most folks who are buying rifles aren't buying overpriced Sigs...


Again, people who post on web forums area small percentage of the gun-buying population. I, for one, can't believe how many people I've heard bragging about dropping a grand on a Blackwater 226 or something similar.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your perception of their quality drop, I'm just saying that it doesn't stop most people from buying them.

Jay


I hear what you're saying. People are still buying GM...

When I'm about to spend $1k for something I hit the books and listen to people. I want to know what they know and how they would make the decision. But there are people who just jump before they look....


Oh I most definitely agree, but you know the saying, "A fool and his money are easily parted."

Jay
Link Posted: 8/28/2010 6:45:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2010 5:53:11 AM EDT by America-first]
Fool here.

So far; my new p220 Equinox Carry runs like a fine Swiss watch.





ETA: Just got back from the range; another 100 rounds went through like shit through a goose; a really smooth, extremely accurate and overall sweet shooting pistol.

Hope my luck holds out; I really like this pistol a lot.

Link Posted: 8/28/2010 4:48:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By America-first:
Fool here.

So far; my new p220 Equinox Carry runs like a fine Swiss watch.





ETA: Just got back from the range; another 100 rounds went through like shit through a goose; a really smooth, extremely accurate and overall sweet shooting pistol.

Hope my luck holds out; I really like this pistol a lot.



Same here. 250 rds thru my US made 229R today in a course. No issues at all.....just like my German 228.

Perhaps "some people" are more prone to gun issues or bad Karma. I'll bet sometime years ago some Swiss guy was bitching when Sig went in with Sauer and they started making German guns from stamped parts and not milled parts like the P210.

Link Posted: 8/31/2010 4:28:52 AM EDT
I have quite a few Sigs both old and new, railed and non-railed. I shoot them a lot and I haven't seen a problem at of a single one of them yet. When I was on the P.D. before I retired, I had to carry a Glock 21. When our department switched from Sigs to Glocks in 2001, we had to start seriously training on malfunction drills. We barely covered malfunction drills when we had the Sig P226s. We only went to Glocks because they were the cheapest good gun at the time. Our firearms committee made up of seven shooters fired 28,000 rounds through 17 guns from five manufacturers. The Sig P226 and P229 were the only two guns to not have a single malfunction during the entire testing.
I am not saying Glocks are bad handguns but we did have a lot of problems with light primer hits, failures to extract, failures to feed, etc. I put my faith in Sig's reliability and that is why I started carrying a Sig again when i retired; at least when I'm not carrying a 1911, but that's another story.
Link Posted: 8/31/2010 7:19:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2010 7:21:20 AM EDT by RB211]
I've owned 4 P220's now, my current one being the Combat TB. I trust it just the same as I did my '92, '94 and '00 P220's. My Combat has been flawless, no malfunctions whatsoever. I see what others have wrote, and respect their opinions or experiences, but I haven't seen enough to believe the negative experiences outweigh the positive.

I'll buy another - P220ST is next.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 3:42:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scottrh2:
Originally Posted By America-first:
Fool here.

So far; my new p220 Equinox Carry runs like a fine Swiss watch.





ETA: Just got back from the range; another 100 rounds went through like shit through a goose; a really smooth, extremely accurate and overall sweet shooting pistol.

Hope my luck holds out; I really like this pistol a lot.



Same here. 250 rds thru my US made 229R today in a course. No issues at all.....just like my German 228.

Perhaps "some people" are more prone to gun issues or bad Karma. I'll bet sometime years ago some Swiss guy was bitching when Sig went in with Sauer and they started making German guns from stamped parts and not milled parts like the P210.



No. There are issues. Sorry that you take that as people bashing your favorite manufacturer, but that's the truth. I don't understand why people get emotionally invested in who made the gun they carry

DocGKR:
There have been problems reported by several large LE agencies the past couple of years regarding a decline in Sig quality.

Former Sig employees have reported that when the new CEO was hired approximately 3 years ago, his mandate was to increase profit margins and unit sales––not improve or ensure QC...


Larry Vickers:
I have seen some problems with SIG's in some of my classes of late than I have never seen before - failures to fire, failure to completely chamber, etc. - I have heard some of the exact same things DocGKR heard and then I started seeing some bizarre problems leads me to believe there may be truth to the rumors
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 6:40:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2010 6:55:26 PM EDT by America-first]
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
Originally Posted By scottrh2:
Originally Posted By America-first:
Fool here.

So far; my new p220 Equinox Carry runs like a fine Swiss watch.





ETA: Just got back from the range; another 100 rounds went through like shit through a goose; a really smooth, extremely accurate and overall sweet shooting pistol.

Hope my luck holds out; I really like this pistol a lot.



Same here. 250 rds thru my US made 229R today in a course. No issues at all.....just like my German 228.

Perhaps "some people" are more prone to gun issues or bad Karma. I'll bet sometime years ago some Swiss guy was bitching when Sig went in with Sauer and they started making German guns from stamped parts and not milled parts like the P210.



No. There are issues. Sorry that you take that as people bashing your favorite manufacturer, but that's the truth. I don't understand why people get emotionally invested in who made the gun they carry

DocGKR:
There have been problems reported by several large LE agencies the past couple of years regarding a decline in Sig quality.

Former Sig employees have reported that when the new CEO was hired approximately 3 years ago, his mandate was to increase profit margins and unit sales––not improve or ensure QC...


Larry Vickers:
I have seen some problems with SIG's in some of my classes of late than I have never seen before - failures to fire, failure to completely chamber, etc. - I have heard some of the exact same things DocGKR heard and then I started seeing some bizarre problems leads me to believe there may be truth to the rumors


After having carried a handgun going on my 42nd year now; I like to believe that I know a little something about them, their limitations and their use.

In the first place; I couldn't give a rat's ass whether or not you approve of the type of handgun I currently carry nor do I have an iota of emotion invested in my new Sig.

In the second place; my carry gun happens to be, and will continue to be a full size M&P .40 and my favorite manufacturer is in fact, Smith and Wesson.

BTW; feel free to "bash" away at S&W; I couldn't care less if you do either.

If you bothered to read and comprehend what I actually wrote you would have caught this: "Hope my luck holds out; I really like this pistol a lot."

What does make these forums less enjoyable and is driving away those members who make positive contributions; is the proclivity of the usual drones who enjoy nothing more than pissing in everyone's Wheaties and talking down to everyone at every contrived opportunity.

Your sage words of wisdom on this SIG forum: "Oh I most definitely agree, but you know the saying, "A fool and his money are easily parted."


This is the damned SIG forum; if you need to piss on SIGs and belittle the members who own and enjoy them do it in GD where it would be more acceptable.



As I said mpreviously; I really like this gun.

Here's some more of it.

Link Posted: 9/1/2010 6:48:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2010 6:50:26 PM EDT by scottrh2]

Originally Posted By scottrh2:
Originally Posted By America-first:
Fool here.

So far; my new p220 Equinox Carry runs like a fine Swiss watch.





ETA: Just got back from the range; another 100 rounds went through like shit through a goose; a really smooth, extremely accurate and overall sweet shooting pistol.

Hope my luck holds out; I really like this pistol a lot.



Same here. 250 rds thru my US made 229R today in a course. No issues at all.....just like my German 228.

Perhaps "some people" are more prone to gun issues or bad Karma. I'll bet sometime years ago some Swiss guy was bitching when Sig went in with Sauer and they started making German guns from stamped parts and not milled parts like the P210.



No. There are issues. Sorry that you take that as people bashing your favorite manufacturer, but that's the truth. I don't understand why people get emotionally invested in who made the gun they carry

DocGKR:
There have been problems reported by several large LE agencies the past couple of years regarding a decline in Sig quality.

Former Sig employees have reported that when the new CEO was hired approximately 3 years ago, his mandate was to increase profit margins and unit sales––not improve or ensure QC...


Larry Vickers:
I have seen some problems with SIG's in some of my classes of late than I have never seen before - failures to fire, failure to completely chamber, etc. - I have heard some of the exact same things DocGKR heard and then I started seeing some bizarre problems leads me to believe there may be truth to the rumors




Dude whatever. Bash all you want. Sig is not my favorite gun but they are good firearms and no unlike some I do not get naked and snuggle with my pistols. When I ask for my Sig to work it does, without fail. Lucky?... I don't know but I do see trends on these forums be it the AR, the AK, the Sig the Beretta whatever in that a % of anyone has issues with whatever is being discussed and those are the vocal ones. Some have issues due to mfg flaws that are legit and some have issues due to not knowing how to use the items and then blame the maker for self imposed ignorance.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 7:00:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2010 7:07:30 PM EDT by America-first]
Originally Posted By scottrh2:

Originally Posted By scottrh2:
Originally Posted By America-first:
Fool here.

So far; my new p220 Equinox Carry runs like a fine Swiss watch.





ETA: Just got back from the range; another 100 rounds went through like shit through a goose; a really smooth, extremely accurate and overall sweet shooting pistol.

Hope my luck holds out; I really like this pistol a lot.



Same here. 250 rds thru my US made 229R today in a course. No issues at all.....just like my German 228.

Perhaps "some people" are more prone to gun issues or bad Karma. I'll bet sometime years ago some Swiss guy was bitching when Sig went in with Sauer and they started making German guns from stamped parts and not milled parts like the P210.

Originally Posted By dookie1481:

No. There are issues. Sorry that you take that as people bashing your favorite manufacturer, but that's the truth. I don't understand why people get emotionally invested in who made the gun they carry

DocGKR:
There have been problems reported by several large LE agencies the past couple of years regarding a decline in Sig quality.

Former Sig employees have reported that when the new CEO was hired approximately 3 years ago, his mandate was to increase profit margins and unit sales––not improve or ensure QC...


Larry Vickers:
I have seen some problems with SIG's in some of my classes of late than I have never seen before - failures to fire, failure to completely chamber, etc. - I have heard some of the exact same things DocGKR heard and then I started seeing some bizarre problems leads me to believe there may be truth to the rumors




Dude whatever. Bash all you want. Sig is not my favorite gun but they are good firearms and no unlike some I do not get naked and snuggle with my pistols. When I ask for my Sig to work it does, without fail. Lucky?... I don't know but I do see trends on these forums be it the AR, the AK, the Sig the Beretta whatever in that a % of anyone has issues with whatever is being discussed and those are the vocal ones. Some have issues due to mfg flaws that are legit and some have issues due to not knowing how to use the items and then blame the maker for self imposed ignorance.


Just quoted and fixed to ensure that dookie1481 receives his due credit for what he posted rather than have what he said attributed to myself.

ETA: When knowledgeable guys whose opinion I respect like John Wayne 777 and others bring up issues intelligently about particular guns I listen.

When the peanut gallery mouths off just to hear itself speak; not so much.


Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:17:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 5:20:58 AM EDT by Dog1]
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:36:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By America-first:
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
Originally Posted By scottrh2:
Originally Posted By America-first:
Fool here.

So far; my new p220 Equinox Carry runs like a fine Swiss watch.





ETA: Just got back from the range; another 100 rounds went through like shit through a goose; a really smooth, extremely accurate and overall sweet shooting pistol.

Hope my luck holds out; I really like this pistol a lot.



Same here. 250 rds thru my US made 229R today in a course. No issues at all.....just like my German 228.

Perhaps "some people" are more prone to gun issues or bad Karma. I'll bet sometime years ago some Swiss guy was bitching when Sig went in with Sauer and they started making German guns from stamped parts and not milled parts like the P210.



No. There are issues. Sorry that you take that as people bashing your favorite manufacturer, but that's the truth. I don't understand why people get emotionally invested in who made the gun they carry

DocGKR:
There have been problems reported by several large LE agencies the past couple of years regarding a decline in Sig quality.

Former Sig employees have reported that when the new CEO was hired approximately 3 years ago, his mandate was to increase profit margins and unit sales––not improve or ensure QC...


Larry Vickers:
I have seen some problems with SIG's in some of my classes of late than I have never seen before - failures to fire, failure to completely chamber, etc. - I have heard some of the exact same things DocGKR heard and then I started seeing some bizarre problems leads me to believe there may be truth to the rumors


After having carried a handgun going on my 42nd year now; I like to believe that I know a little something about them, their limitations and their use.

In the first place; I couldn't give a rat's ass whether or not you approve of the type of handgun I currently carry nor do I have an iota of emotion invested in my new Sig.

In the second place; my carry gun happens to be, and will continue to be a full size M&P .40 and my favorite manufacturer is in fact, Smith and Wesson.

BTW; feel free to "bash" away at S&W; I couldn't care less if you do either.

If you bothered to read and comprehend what I actually wrote you would have caught this: "Hope my luck holds out; I really like this pistol a lot."

What does make these forums less enjoyable and is driving away those members who make positive contributions; is the proclivity of the usual drones who enjoy nothing more than pissing in everyone's Wheaties and talking down to everyone at every contrived opportunity.

Your sage words of wisdom on this SIG forum: "Oh I most definitely agree, but you know the saying, "A fool and his money are easily parted."


This is the damned SIG forum; if you need to piss on SIGs and belittle the members who own and enjoy them do it in GD where it would be more acceptable.



As I said mpreviously; I really like this gun.

Here's some more of it.

http://a.imageshack.us/img835/4770/img1170w.jpg


I'm not bashing Sig or S&W, I own both and love both. However, very reputable people in this industry have reported wide-ranging and large sample-size problems with recent Sig pistols.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:38:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By America-first:
Originally Posted By scottrh2:

Originally Posted By scottrh2:
Originally Posted By America-first:
Fool here.

So far; my new p220 Equinox Carry runs like a fine Swiss watch.





ETA: Just got back from the range; another 100 rounds went through like shit through a goose; a really smooth, extremely accurate and overall sweet shooting pistol.

Hope my luck holds out; I really like this pistol a lot.



Same here. 250 rds thru my US made 229R today in a course. No issues at all.....just like my German 228.

Perhaps "some people" are more prone to gun issues or bad Karma. I'll bet sometime years ago some Swiss guy was bitching when Sig went in with Sauer and they started making German guns from stamped parts and not milled parts like the P210.

Originally Posted By dookie1481:

No. There are issues. Sorry that you take that as people bashing your favorite manufacturer, but that's the truth. I don't understand why people get emotionally invested in who made the gun they carry

DocGKR:
There have been problems reported by several large LE agencies the past couple of years regarding a decline in Sig quality.

Former Sig employees have reported that when the new CEO was hired approximately 3 years ago, his mandate was to increase profit margins and unit sales––not improve or ensure QC...


Larry Vickers:
I have seen some problems with SIG's in some of my classes of late than I have never seen before - failures to fire, failure to completely chamber, etc. - I have heard some of the exact same things DocGKR heard and then I started seeing some bizarre problems leads me to believe there may be truth to the rumors




Dude whatever. Bash all you want. Sig is not my favorite gun but they are good firearms and no unlike some I do not get naked and snuggle with my pistols. When I ask for my Sig to work it does, without fail. Lucky?... I don't know but I do see trends on these forums be it the AR, the AK, the Sig the Beretta whatever in that a % of anyone has issues with whatever is being discussed and those are the vocal ones. Some have issues due to mfg flaws that are legit and some have issues due to not knowing how to use the items and then blame the maker for self imposed ignorance.


Just quoted and fixed to ensure that dookie1481 receives his due credit for what he posted rather than have what he said attributed to myself.

ETA: When knowledgeable guys whose opinion I respect like John Wayne 777 and others bring up issues intelligently about particular guns I listen.

When the peanut gallery mouths off just to hear itself speak; not so much.




That's funny because JW_777 just posted something similar to what I did not too long ago. So if I relay something from two experts, it doesn't hold any weight, but if a long time poster does it's somehow more valid? The source is the same
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 2:00:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 2:06:57 PM EDT by America-first]
Originally Posted By dookie1481:
Originally Posted By America-first:
Originally Posted By scottrh2:

Originally Posted By scottrh2:
Originally Posted By America-first:
Fool here.

So far; my new p220 Equinox Carry runs like a fine Swiss watch.





ETA: Just got back from the range; another 100 rounds went through like shit through a goose; a really smooth, extremely accurate and overall sweet shooting pistol.

Hope my luck holds out; I really like this pistol a lot.



Same here. 250 rds thru my US made 229R today in a course. No issues at all.....just like my German 228.

Perhaps "some people" are more prone to gun issues or bad Karma. I'll bet sometime years ago some Swiss guy was bitching when Sig went in with Sauer and they started making German guns from stamped parts and not milled parts like the P210.

Originally Posted By dookie1481:

No. There are issues. Sorry that you take that as people bashing your favorite manufacturer, but that's the truth. I don't understand why people get emotionally invested in who made the gun they carry

DocGKR:
There have been problems reported by several large LE agencies the past couple of years regarding a decline in Sig quality.

Former Sig employees have reported that when the new CEO was hired approximately 3 years ago, his mandate was to increase profit margins and unit sales––not improve or ensure QC...


Larry Vickers:
I have seen some problems with SIG's in some of my classes of late than I have never seen before - failures to fire, failure to completely chamber, etc. - I have heard some of the exact same things DocGKR heard and then I started seeing some bizarre problems leads me to believe there may be truth to the rumors




Dude whatever. Bash all you want. Sig is not my favorite gun but they are good firearms and no unlike some I do not get naked and snuggle with my pistols. When I ask for my Sig to work it does, without fail. Lucky?... I don't know but I do see trends on these forums be it the AR, the AK, the Sig the Beretta whatever in that a % of anyone has issues with whatever is being discussed and those are the vocal ones. Some have issues due to mfg flaws that are legit and some have issues due to not knowing how to use the items and then blame the maker for self imposed ignorance.


Just quoted and fixed to ensure that dookie1481 receives his due credit for what he posted rather than have what he said attributed to myself.

ETA: When knowledgeable guys whose opinion I respect like John Wayne 777 and others bring up issues intelligently about particular guns I listen.

When the peanut gallery mouths off just to hear itself speak; not so much.




That's funny because JW_777 just posted something similar to what I did not too long ago. So if I relay something from two experts, it doesn't hold any weight, but if a long time poster does it's somehow more valid? The source is the same


Not by a mile.

Simply paraphrasing, parroting and/or embellishing what acknowledged experts such as JW_777 or others have to say on a subject doesn't make someone an expert themselves.

Secondly; JohnWayne_777 and others of his stature on this board don't need to result to calling other members "fools" in order to get their points across.

Their knowledge is self evident and the respect they have here among the members has been earned and deservedly so.

If and when JohnWayne777 or any of the members whose opinions I similarly respect begin quoting you as a reputable source I might change my mind; but I guarantee you that they won't bait other members with insults.

And now for another picture of my new SIG P220 Equinox Carry that I'm really enjoying the hell out of.

Link Posted: 9/2/2010 2:35:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:58:41 PM EDT
Simply paraphrasing, parroting and/or embellishing what acknowledged experts such as JW_777 or others have to say on a subject doesn't make someone an expert themselves.


Where did I even suggest that I was an expert? I notice you didn't address my question, which was "So if I relay something from two experts, it doesn't hold any weight, but if a long time poster does it's somehow more valid? The source is the same."

Secondly; JohnWayne_777 and others of his stature on this board don't need to result to calling other members "fools" in order to get their points across.


Where did I call someone a fool? You are really reaching here, bud.

Their knowledge is self evident and the respect they have here among the members has been earned and deservedly so.


Indeed.

If and when JohnWayne777 or any of the members whose opinions I similarly respect begin quoting you as a reputable source I might change my mind;


Non-sequitur

but I guarantee you that they won't bait other members with insults.


Again, where did I insult anyone? And why do you get so worked up when I relay info from reputable sources that Sig has been having QC issues?

Jay
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:59:21 PM EDT
That is an absolutely stunning pistol, BTW.

Jay
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:18:41 AM EDT
I have bought 4 sigs in the last 5 years and put thousands of rounds through each of them with 0 malfunctions. Pistols are two 226,229 and a 220.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:39:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 11:40:42 AM EDT by xpired]
I have a p226 E2 I bought about a month ago and three range trips after I purchased it and around 400 9mm and 50 .22s ran through it it broke. It would chamber the round without a problem but when I pulled the trigger it wouldn't go bang about every other round. I came to the assumption that the trigger was not reseting properly. I sent it to Sig and they had to replace the safety lever and trigger bar. Got it back yesterday and took it out today and fired around 100 rounds of 9mm and the same of .22 and it ran flawlessly. Other than those two parts breaking I have had zero malfunctions.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 12:42:10 AM EDT
Before I use to own a 2005 made P229 9mm DAK, 2009 made P226 .40, and a 2004 made P229 .40, all had weak extractors, gritty trigger and inferior finish! Since then I made an extra effort of getting used all German made Sigs, so now I have 2-1995 made P228 (10-700rds count), 1- new old stock 1995 made P226, amazing fit and finish, smooth as silk triggers and extremely accurate! I won't hesitate getting another one if something comes up on the classifieds, but for sure I'm not buying any new Sig, unless Germany took over again the company, and R&D will run them, not Marketing!
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:41:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 4:47:30 AM EDT by C_Rion]
The current Nitron Finish is Inferior to the former K Cote? LOL, thats a fucking stretch. No, actually its pure bullshit. The former finish was a very weak first generation spray and bake that didnt hold up for shit. The 2001 to now nitron finish Is a PVD coating. Think IONBOND. One of the toughest coatings that can be applied to a firearm. This statement really make me question your credability. Are you just making that up so you can jump on the band wagon and be one of the "hate Sig" cool guys? Kinda sounds like it. How did you determine the extractors were at fault, across 3 diffrent guns and 2 diffrent calibers manufactured across a 5 year time span, and not the ammo you failed to mention. It was probably crappy ammo, but its just cooler to blame the guns.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:43:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 8:15:36 AM EDT by Dog1]
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 8:12:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By C_Rion:
The current Nitron Finish is Inferior to the former K Cote? LOL, thats a fucking stretch. No, actually its pure bullshit. The former finish was a very weak first generation spray and bake that didnt hold up for shit. The 2001 to now nitron finish Is a PVD coating. Think IONBOND. One of the toughest coatings that can be applied to a firearm. This statement really make me question your credability. Are you just making that up so you can jump on the band wagon and be one of the "hate Sig" cool guys? Kinda sounds like it. How did you determine the extractors were at fault, across 3 diffrent guns and 2 diffrent calibers manufactured across a 5 year time span, and not the ammo you failed to mention. It was probably crappy ammo, but its just cooler to blame the guns.


I was not talking about the slides finish, why the need of character assassination? I'm talking about the frames so called hard anodized finish, the old German made Sigs does not easily get chipped and cracked, Im sure someone can attest to it, the newer ones frame finish are so brittle and not that smooth, especially the US made frame P226 with the UU s/n. Check out my older posts and Im pretty sure I know what Im talking about, don't trash talk me coz Im from a 3rd world country! I also used to own 2 other 1997 and 2002 Sig P226 with trifecta proof marks, but sold them due to financial issues (regretted it until now:() And btw, I only use Magtechs FMJ exclusively on all my Sigs, no reloads!
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 3:29:36 PM EDT
I just purchased a Sig 229 and the Trijicon Night sights (factory) that shoot 6" low at 20ft. I'm using the same sight picture that I use with my three other Sig's, P220, P225 and P226. Sig claims they are using a "different sight picture" on their new sights. Aim higher.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't change my sight picture based on which firearm I'm using. If they are adjustable I'll zero them. Fixed sights are designed (almost, until now) universally to work alike.

I'm going to get a new front (and possibly a rear) sight or I'll badger them till death.

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 3:36:45 PM EDT
I recall with the normal day sights on my 226 from back in the day I had to aim high. With the new night sights on the last 3 I have got a dead on hold is money.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 8:31:21 AM EDT
It is on there web site
click on
home
management
Ron Cohen
Dec 2004
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 9:46:13 PM EDT
There are few guns with a grip that fits my hand as well as the P226 does. I love that trigger, and the post and dot sight. The SIG P226 is one of the most accurate guns for me. I was thinking of getting the P226 for three years, until I turned 21 and was able to finally buy my first handgun.

When that time came and I was looking around at the gun shops and gun shows I noticed a lot of things that made me very hesitant to spend the money I worked hard for. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't bought a SIG after some of the things that I've seen personally and admittedly, some of the things I've simply heard. It seems to me like they're taking a great manufacturer's name and riding the wave as long as they can before it dies.

They also stopped making the gun I actually wanted to buy and replaced it with a "variant" that's $600 more expensive and has a bunch of crap I don't need or want, so I'm not very pleased there either.
Top Top