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Posted: 12/27/2005 7:33:54 PM EDT
I was at the Issac Walton League range in Poolesville Maryland on monday and among some of the usual weaponry there was the ubiquitous 40 cal glock. It wasnt halfway into the second string of rapid fire that the chamber on this weapon split from the barrel and broke in half, jamming the upper half of the chamber up thru the ejection port, also the slide was blown off the frame. The explosion that caused all this had ripped the polymer frame rails completely off. After quickly ejecting the mag the weapon was immediatly dropped by the shooter who's hand was by now swollen and red, and no doubt very stiff and sore. The guy was extremely lucky that he didnt loose his fingers or hand completely. We Sig owners can feel secure in the strength of a fully supported chamber. BTW, for scrutiny's sake this was simple 40 cal FMJ range ammo, not sure of the brand, and the firearm was a Glock 22, near as i could tell from the shot (i was 4 shooters to the right of this guy) it sounded like a double powder load or something, giving him the benifit of the doubt. Needless to say im not a fan of Glocks but respect their reputation. That said, I have never seen or heard of a Sig going Kabooom.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 7:45:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
I was at the Issac Walton League range in Poolesville Maryland on monday and among some of the usual weaponry there was the ubiquitous 40 cal glock. It wasnt halfway into the second string of rapid fire that the chamber on this weapon split from the barrel and broke in half, jamming the upper half of the chamber up thru the ejection port, also the slide was blown off the frame. The explosion that caused all this had ripped the polymer frame rails completely off. After quickly ejecting the mag the weapon was immediatly dropped by the shooter who's hand was by now swollen and red, and no doubt very stiff and sore. The guy was extremely lucky that he didnt loose his fingers or hand completely. We Sig owners can feel secure in the strength of a fully supported chamber. BTW, for scrutiny's sake this was simple 40 cal FMJ range ammo, not sure of the brand, and the firearm was a Glock 22, near as i could tell from the shot (i was 4 shooters to the right of this guy) it sounded like a double powder load or something, giving him the benifit of the doubt. Needless to say im not a fan of Glocks but respect their reputation. That said, I have never seen or heard of a Sig going Kabooom.




You need to learn how to write in paragraphical form.

After that, you need to retitle this topic: "SIG -VS- GLOCK, WHY MY SIG IS BETTER!
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 7:54:54 PM EDT
Sorry about the rant. I was more concerned about spitting out all the facts before i forget em. My mind is like a.........like a........like a..........a siv yeah thats it!
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 7:59:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By xanadu:
You need to learn how to write in paragraphical form.

After that, you need to retitle this topic: "SIG -VS- GLOCK, WHY MY SIG IS BETTER!




You actually wasted the time and effort to post this? Such valuable input. You should feel so proud.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:25:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 2Manchu:

Originally Posted By xanadu:
You need to learn how to write in paragraphical form.

After that, you need to retitle this topic: "SIG -VS- GLOCK, WHY MY SIG IS BETTER!




You actually wasted the time and effort to post this? Such valuable input. You should feel so proud.



Why yes.. now that you mention it... I DO feel proud!
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:30:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:41:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By xanadu:

Originally Posted By 2Manchu:

Originally Posted By xanadu:
You need to learn how to write in paragraphical form.

After that, you need to retitle this topic: "SIG -VS- GLOCK, WHY MY SIG IS BETTER!




You actually wasted the time and effort to post this? Such valuable input. You should feel so proud.



Why yes.. now that you mention it... I DO feel proud!



Here is some thing that you can feel proud of too:

www.thegunzone.com/sigp229-fracture.html

BTW - I think that Sigs and Glocks are both fine pistols. But I sold mine and now own HK's.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:45:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 8:47:59 PM EDT by TheNorm]

Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
I was at the Issac Walton League range in Poolesville Maryland on monday and among some of the usual weaponry there was the ubiquitous 40 cal glock. It wasnt halfway into the second string of rapid fire that the chamber on this weapon split from the barrel and broke in half, jamming the upper half of the chamber up thru the ejection port, also the slide was blown off the frame. The explosion that caused all this had ripped the polymer frame rails completely off. After quickly ejecting the mag the weapon was immediatly dropped by the shooter who's hand was by now swollen and red, and no doubt very stiff and sore. The guy was extremely lucky that he didnt loose his fingers or hand completely. We Sig owners can feel secure in the strength of a fully supported chamber. BTW, for scrutiny's sake this was simple 40 cal FMJ range ammo, not sure of the brand, and the firearm was a Glock 22, near as i could tell from the shot (i was 4 shooters to the right of this guy) it sounded like a double powder load or something, giving him the benifit of the doubt. Needless to say im not a fan of Glocks but respect their reputation. That said, I have never seen or heard of a Sig going Kabooom.



There's the problem. I have been to many ranges where they insist on you using their ammo. While this makes sense as they don't want people testing handloads on their rental guns, the reason is usually more that they can sell you the cheapest ammo they can find for 2 times retail.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:01:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By xanadu:

Originally Posted By xanadu:

Originally Posted By 2Manchu:

Originally Posted By xanadu:
You need to learn how to write in paragraphical form.

After that, you need to retitle this topic: "SIG -VS- GLOCK, WHY MY SIG IS BETTER!




You actually wasted the time and effort to post this? Such valuable input. You should feel so proud.



Why yes.. now that you mention it... I DO feel proud!



Here is some thing that you can feel proud of too:

www.thegunzone.com/sigp229-fracture.html

BTW - I think that Sigs and Glocks are both fine pistols. But I sold mine and now own HK's.



+1
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:06:58 PM EDT
when i said range ammo i mean something like winchester target stuff, this particular range does not sell any ammo
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 10:53:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:

Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
That said, I have never seen or heard of a Sig going Kabooom.



Thats because Sigs look cute in a holster and don't get fired that much. Glocks are a workhorse and get the crap beat out of them. I'll take the Glock.



Wrong! There are Sigs with hundreds of thousands of rounds through them. I own 1 with over 50K through it. Sigs are tanks and built stronger then a Glock. The 229 is probibly the strongest .40 ever designed.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:08:29 PM EDT
I saw the same sort of thing happen to a fairly new Baretta w/CT handgrips. Dude was using some cheap ammo called "DC Ammo" man I am suprised he didnt get his hand jacked up after that. Moral of the story dont use cheap ass ammo that no one has ever heard of.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:19:13 PM EDT
Was it a factory barrel?

or had the thing been "race gunned" with an aftermarket barrel?

I have heard of kabooms, but not with barrel failures as described.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 8:53:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:

Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
That said, I have never seen or heard of a Sig going Kabooom.



Thats because Sigs look cute in a holster and don't get fired that much. Glocks are a workhorse and get the crap beat out of them. I'll take the Glock.



Wrong! There are Sigs with hundreds of thousands of rounds through them. I own 1 with over 50K through it. Sigs are tanks and built stronger then a Glock. The 229 is probibly the strongest .40 ever designed.



Have to agree. My Sig P226 (.40 cal) is also a workhorse, spent almost three years being smacked into armored platting on an armored truck and on bank safes (comes with the job), I shoot the living daylights out of it, and aside from looking a little uglier than showroom, it is holding up damn well. I wouldn't trade my Sig for anything in the world.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 11:05:29 PM EDT
+1 on that post, obviously they wouldnt be used by the SEALs if they werent reliable as hell, as some of you might know, my best friend since 5th grade (a member of SEAL Team 5, Charlie Platoon, i cant use his name but i can say he has a tour in iraq working bodyguard and CQC detail) indicates that the the Teams have access to pretty much any sidearm they choose, particularly the P226 in 9mm and the SOCOM USP .45. Though this is the case, according to him, not a single guy in Team 5 or Team 1 (they share the same duty station) ever carry anything but the P226 in 9mm for sevral reasons, first the 226 is the only pistol that is dive rated, Glocks may fire under water, but their internals have been shown to rust after just one exposure to seawater, the sigs issued to the teams are parkerized to at least slow this process, and as pointed out by my friend, the sigs fire weather caked in mud or rusted thru and thru, or doused in seawater. The second reason they are carried over the .45s or any other caliber is ammo availability, when deployed, a SEAL is likely to find himself somewhere nearby other NATO troops and thusly near a large supply of 9mm. And thirdly, my friend points out, as his Cheif (Chief Petty Officer for those of you not fluent in Navyspeak) puts it, the only reason they carry a sidearm is for themselves, because if you intend on using a pistol round on a target in the sandbox, hes likely got an AK aimed at you which makes you dead any way you look at it. A 9mm to the temple is enough to do the job, and you only need one round. Sobering thought, but its a combat reality. I belive the addage is, the only use for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you shouldnt have dropped in the first place.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:21:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
Wrong! There are Sigs with hundreds of thousands of rounds through them. I own 1 with over 50K through it. Sigs are tanks and built stronger then a Glock. The 229 is probibly the strongest .40 ever designed.



I dunno about the 229 being the strongest. My vote would be for the 4006. I am with you in that I would rather have a .40 cal 229 in my holster than a Glock in .40 cal anyday. I'll take the extra chamber support thank you!

chissel
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:31:18 AM EDT
How many threads are you going to start about this alleged incident, ?

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:55:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
How many threads are you going to start about this alleged incident, ?





+1
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:07:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
+1 on that post, obviously they wouldnt be used by the SEALs if they werent reliable as hell, as some of you might know, my best friend since 5th grade (a member of SEAL Team 5, Charlie Platoon, i cant use his name but i can say he has a tour in iraq working bodyguard and CQC detail) indicates that the the Teams have access to pretty much any sidearm they choose, particularly the P226 in 9mm and the SOCOM USP .45. Though this is the case, according to him, not a single guy in Team 5 or Team 1 (they share the same duty station) ever carry anything but the P226 in 9mm for sevral reasons, first the 226 is the only pistol that is dive rated, Glocks may fire under water, but their internals have been shown to rust after just one exposure to seawater, the sigs issued to the teams are parkerized to at least slow this process, and as pointed out by my friend, the sigs fire weather caked in mud or rusted thru and thru, or doused in seawater. The second reason they are carried over the .45s or any other caliber is ammo availability, when deployed, a SEAL is likely to find himself somewhere nearby other NATO troops and thusly near a large supply of 9mm. And thirdly, my friend points out, as his Cheif (Chief Petty Officer for those of you not fluent in Navyspeak) puts it, the only reason they carry a sidearm is for themselves, because if you intend on using a pistol round on a target in the sandbox, hes likely got an AK aimed at you which makes you dead any way you look at it. A 9mm to the temple is enough to do the job, and you only need one round. Sobering thought, but its a combat reality. I belive the addage is, the only use for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you shouldnt have dropped in the first place.



It's a small world! My childhood buddy is also in Team 5! I stay in touch with him a couple times a year and he says the same thing as you said above. He probibly is friends with your buddy! He told me also that some times they use S&W 686's. I never would have guessed that!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:43:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:49:56 AM EDT
Without facts regarding the exact ammo used, this thread is worthless.

"Range ammo" can mean anything.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:54:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Noner:
I had a P226 go KABOOM with some Federal Ammo. (Federal sent me a few boxes for free but didnt replace any broken parts on the sig)




Anytime you have an explosion there is a chance something may go wrong.

It does not matter if it is a gun or a combustion engine.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:33:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SigFiend226:

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:

Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
That said, I have never seen or heard of a Sig going Kabooom.



Thats because Sigs look cute in a holster and don't get fired that much. Glocks are a workhorse and get the crap beat out of them. I'll take the Glock.



Wrong! There are Sigs with hundreds of thousands of rounds through them. I own 1 with over 50K through it. Sigs are tanks and built stronger then a Glock. The 229 is probibly the strongest .40 ever designed.



Have to agree. My Sig P226 (.40 cal) is also a workhorse, spent almost three years being smacked into armored platting on an armored truck and on bank safes (comes with the job), I shoot the living daylights out of it, and aside from looking a little uglier than showroom, it is holding up damn well. I wouldn't trade my Sig for anything in the world.



I know what you mean. I work in a Armored Truck here in Las Vegas. This is why I carry a Glock 22 at work and CCW a Sig out in town.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:55:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 10:25:20 AM EDT by excist_and_reflect]
The only real occurences of KB's in glocks that have been documented using pictures and not hear say , were a direct result of using aftermarket barrels. Glock even tells you to use Glock brand parts. As far as internals rusting in salt water... Salt and oxygen will make rust form on any metal parkerized or not. Besides tenifer is used in the curing process on Glocks and is completley unsuseptible to corrosion. Glock slides and barrels have a rockwell hardness rating of 69. The highest rating is 70 and that is the rating of a diamond. Tenifer is not a coating either it is in the metal. The black coating is a nitrate solution that is more corrosion resistant than parkerizing.
www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=13658Start reading this topic and then tell me you would feel confident puting your SIG through this and ship it to Bigbore and we will see how it fares. He did this to an HK USP and it wouldn't even fire the Glock went bang every time. There are even videos to watch if you don't believe it and need to see it with your own eyes.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:40:07 PM EDT
Guitar Guy,

When I read the title of your posting I knew it would be a field day with comments.

Regardless of what is commented and the words "alleged" used. I can assure you I know that it happens because it happened to me.

Shooting at my range, 4 weeks after haveing hernia surgery and I was feeling like shooting.

Equipment: Glock 23, mine, purchased new, 1500 rounds at the most through it.

Ammo: Off the shelf, factory Federal Premium

Shooting was normal, went through half the box, loaded another mag, pop, pop and then BOOM! Blew mag out, blew off the mag release out and also cracked the trigger. My hand was cut, my face was cut and I can assure you it startled me. Empty case stuck in the barrel and right above the feedramp, the cartridge was blown out.

Sent the cartridge back to Federal, we emailed back and forth and they sent me some more ammo, nice of them, I do respect them for that.

Sold all of my Glocks, had Sigs and HK's in my collection at the time and now that is all that I have, along with my RRA 1911's.

77Bronc

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:53:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 6:57:36 PM EDT by brandyspaw]
I felt compelled to post the link to this occurance where I had a P229 blow out the back
of the cases 3 times due to an early lot of 40 S&W ammo with weak case heads.

I also posted this occurance on SIGforum but never did here since there was little interest at that forum. Since this issue came up I'd thought I'd show you how/why these KBs can sometimes
occur. Here is the link so you can see it isn't just Glocks that KB. The nice thing about the
SIGS is that other than the extractor it doesn't damage the gun. The SIG P229 is
a heavy duty 40.

www.ambackforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=28611

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:02:50 PM EDT
Thanks for the input guys, i knew this would be a shouting match but i just wanted to detail what i saw. I really do feel safer behind my SIG, some may think that deluded but thats just me. Im not out to bash Glocks in any way.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:42:22 AM EDT
This guy is putting this post on every board. Dude, gtfo of here with your nonsense.

I hope a moderator bans this guy already *sigh*
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:43:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
Im not out to bash Glocks in any way.



That's why you've only posted this message on like 4 different web forums right?
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:48:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
How many threads are you going to start about this alleged incident, ?




come on... you of all people shoudl know the answer......


87!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:26:51 PM EDT
GuitarGuy,
SIG's are great guns. So are Glocks. If you want to talk about SIG's, post it here.
If you want to talk about Glocks post it hereGlock
You've made your point on other boards as well. The P226 the seals use have reinforced slides that have an anchor marking. And the P226 the Navy was issued had slide "toughness" issues.Which is why the SEALS version was reinforced in the first place.
77Bronc,
I fail to understand how bad ammo forced you to sell perfectly good handguns. Squib rounds injure alot of people. What cut your face? Was it casing fragments? The gun saved your hand. A squib in a SIG is no different. The gun is wasted once its been through that much pressure. Another squib would turn the gun into a grenade. You may go your entire life without seeing another squib in any of your guns. Then again it maybe your AR that it happens in next. Have you read this article?SIG Fracture

akethan said it best, in his previous post.

"Anytime you have an explosion there is a chance something may go wrong.
It does not matter if it is a gun or a combustion engine."


Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:10:35 AM EDT
Having worked at an indoor pistol range, I can tell you based on personnal experience, they all break.

I witnessed a Glock 17, a Sig 226 and a Beretta 92FS all with cracked or bulged sides.
All pistols rendered unusable.

So, I own a Glock and a Sig and have utmost confidence in both, knowing of course that things can break. When they do, get another one...
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:28:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By excist_and_reflect:
The only real occurences of KB's in glocks that have been documented using pictures and not hear say , were a direct result of using aftermarket barrels.




Originally Posted By HotRod9mm: (link)
Here is a G20 with a bad reload. I know the man personally and when the case failed he knew at the instant what he had done. While reloading he pulled 2 charged cases out of his Dillon 650 to check the charge weight, checked them and put them back in the loader ahead of the powder dump.
The only thing damaged was a bruised hand, ego and the reminder below. He has reloaded thousands of rds with this one mistake. The only factory ammo that I won't use is Federal. They had a quality control problem that was linked to several Glocks(and others) with case failures.







Originally Posted By excist_and_reflect:
www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=13658Start reading this topic and then tell me you would feel confident puting your SIG through this and ship it to Bigbore and we will see how it fares. He did this to an HK USP and it wouldn't even fire the Glock went bang every time. There are even videos to watch if you don't believe it and need to see it with your own eyes.



bravo.

ar-jedi

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:35:31 PM EDT
bigbore is a glock fanatic,and in my opinion that makes him bias
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:58:17 PM EDT
How? Did you actually see what he did to his gun?Hmm I wonder why he's a fanatic. He even shows his gun start to misfeed and posts what it took for it to happen. I think a Glock biased person would have left those tidbits out to show the superiority of the weapon.
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