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Posted: 7/23/2003 5:53:49 AM EDT
Did anyone see that video where they fired all those different guns underwater? I was wondering if it was safe to fire a stock Glock 19 underwater. And what if those underwater spring cups were installed first?

Smalls
Cpl of Marines
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 4:13:57 AM EDT
glockfaq.com/generalinfo.htm#h2o

Glockfaq has tons of info !!

Also check the other links above^^
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 3:14:51 PM EDT
a 17 with maritime spring cups (12 bucks from Glockmeister) and subsonic ammo is capable of firing underwater.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 9:35:51 AM EDT
i read somewhere leroy thompson or chuck taylor? anyways they where doing a torture test article he was writing about the results
of 12 or 13 yrs of torture on his 17 when he mentioned that glock 17 were replacing bang sticks in hawaii. can anyone validate this
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 9:26:54 AM EDT
http://www.ipsc-dagboken.com/glock2001/eglock.html
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 9:45:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stanze:
www.ipsc-dagboken.com/glock2001/eglock.html

Link Posted: 8/1/2003 5:37:24 AM EDT
I don't believe about the Glock replacing bangsticks in Hawaii. I think handgun ownership is really restrictive over there for one thing.

Also, it seems to me that from reading various articles on the topic, although it DOES work, it's NOT really encouraged (firing them under water).

I don't know. Maybe it's just me? But I've never found myself needing to reach for a handgun while SCUBA Diving. Maybe I don't get out enough?
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 8:23:06 AM EDT
Not meant as a smartass reply, but why?
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 8:52:58 AM EDT
The video was "Underwater Shooting," by Lenny MacGill.

The gun that did the best underwater? Besides the G17 with Maritime cups, was the Glock 27!

Oh, and the 1911 sucked ass underwater.

He says at the start of the video that he might shoot his ar15 underwater, then he wusses out at the end. Smart move on his part.

Anyhow, I believe he fires hollowoints underwater too.

Let me know if you want to borrow the video, and I'll mail it to you.

Link Posted: 8/1/2003 1:11:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By YellowLab:
Not meant as a smartass reply, but why?



Good question. Well, I was curious if a stock Glock 19 could fire underwater. Or if the Maritime Cups would have to be installed first. The main reason I wanted to know if it would fire underwater is that I've seen many things happen that I never thought possible. So there may come a time I may need to discharge my weapon partially or fully submerged underwater.

I apologize if it may take me a week to answer back to a thread. Its not that I'm abandoning a thread. Its just that I am still on Active Duty and don't have access to the Internet on weekdays. Thanks for all the replies!

Smalls
Cpl of Marines
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 2:59:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2003 3:02:09 PM EDT by wyv3rn]

Well, I was curious if a stock Glock 19 could fire underwater. Or if the Maritime Cups would have to be installed first.


I can't give you a 110% positive answer on this, but I can give you about a 95%. It might or might not. The maritime spring cups allow water to move with minimal resistance around the firing pin chamber. If the cups are not installed, it's all up to the firing pin spring to overcome the resistance. Depending on how strong that spring is (how much your Glock has been fired) and how forcefully it can throw the firing pin into the primer, it may fire. I do not believe there is any added level of danger to firing under water without the spring cups that isn't there already with them. Hope this answers your question.

Thank you very much for your service, stay safe out there, we want you all back to your families!
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 5:52:06 AM EDT
I thought (though I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time) that most auto pistols will fire ONCE under water. The beauty of the Glock with the marine spring cups installed is that it will cycle the next round and be ready to fire again. Due to hydraulic pressures, other handguns will not cycle underwater, and must have the next round racked in by hand.

I read an article in some gun magazine years back in which the author took his Officers Model 1911 into a pool and test fired it. The round traveled something like 20 feet, but after 5-7 feet of travel, you could block it with your bare hand because it had lost so much energy. I distinctly remember the author stating that he had to rack the slide by hand each time, as it would not eject on its own.

The author also made a point of saying that if you are going to do this, make sure the barrel is full of water completely before firing. A bullet striking water at the end (or halfway down) the barrel does some really bad things to the gun (and possibly you!).

Dave
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 8:26:17 AM EDT
This is a reminder that I am talking from my knowledge of the mechanics of the firearm, I have not done any underwater shooting myself.


Originally Posted By CollegeCop:
I thought (though I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time) that most auto pistols will fire ONCE under water.



This is not entirely true, but it is 99.9% of the time. Regardless of if you've fired a round or not, if you submerge a glock the firing pin channel _will_ fill up with water. If you have a weak firing pin spring it is quite possible that the water will create too much resistance and the firing pin will not strike the primer hard enough. This is true with every firing-pin type pistol that I know of. As for how weak the spring has to be, I don't know. My _GUESS_ is it would probably have to be not to far from needing replacement anyway.


The beauty of the Glock with the marine spring cups installed is that it will cycle the next round and be ready to fire again. Due to hydraulic pressures, other handguns will not cycle underwater, and must have the next round racked in by hand.


Well, the maritime spring cups have nothing to do with cycling, all they do is allow water to move more freely through the firing pin chamber. This really has more to do with the design of the firearm and the total resistance against the slide assembly from the sum of it's moving parts, water, etc. If your glock cycles ok underwater with the spring cups, it will cycle ok without them as long as it can still fire (the firing pin resistance thing).


I read an article in some gun magazine years back in which the author took his Officers Model 1911 into a pool and test fired it. The round traveled something like 20 feet, but after 5-7 feet of travel, you could block it with your bare hand because it had lost so much energy. I distinctly remember the author stating that he had to rack the slide by hand each time, as it would not eject on its own.


If it wasn't ejecting on it's own, this probably had to do with the resistance of the slide assembly in water. Remember the slide assembly on a 1911 is MUCH heaver than that of a Glock. Also, it uses a hammer instead of a firing pin, which needs to be pushed to the rear as well.


The author also made a point of saying that if you are going to do this, make sure the barrel is full of water completely before firing. A bullet striking water at the end (or halfway down) the barrel does some really bad things to the gun (and possibly you!).


Yes this is very true, but this is only the first step in underwater shooting. I hear it is extremely dangerous for other reasons as well. Something to the effect of the shock waves in water can damage internal organs.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 5:19:28 AM EDT
$5 for the cups at glockdoc.home.texas.net/
as long as you have the spring cups, let all the air out of the GLOCK (by pointing the muzzle up and shaking under water) and have the correct sealed ammo, you should be able to shoot any of them under water.
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