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Posted: 5/11/2003 6:50:51 PM EDT
I am getting a new pistol. This pistol I am planning on using as a beat around all-use gun. This gun will be used, and cared for but it will be a work/war horse. I want to use it when I go fishing, or hiking in the mountains, and I am curious as to how effective the 9mm would be against say a mountain lion or a black bear which i could very easily encounter on my trips into the woods. So should I go look for an older 1911 .45 or go with a Glock 17 with high caps. Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 7:02:56 PM EDT
For complicated reasons, neither will be of any use against large animals. I like the .45 for defense, but the Glock needs less TLC, so thats what I reccomend. The other possiblity is a G21--a .45 caliber glock, or a USP .45.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 7:11:28 PM EDT
I have looked at the G21 but doesn't fit my hand too well. Also I reload 45 and I am afraid of the KBing. With 9mm i figure cheaper to buy it than reload it.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 7:25:17 PM EDT
1911 hands down.

I wouldn't wish a glock on my worst enemy.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 7:41:26 PM EDT
I say the Glock. The definition of reliability.

Shoot both and see which you like. If I were to go 1911 I would get a STI single stack, or a Kimber. That will be near the $1000 range. Don't go cheap on a 1911.

Glocks are inexpensive for what you get. Plus you'll have access to high cap magazines.

Shot placement is more important than anything else. The 9 is very controllable when rapid fired, and you'll have 17+1 in the Glock.

I would not worry about kB's. It can happen in any pistol if you do not clean/maintain it or make a mistake reloading (checkin your brass).
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 8:15:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2003 8:17:49 PM EDT by stinkeypete]
Let's see... you are worried about bears and lions.

9mm... you know what they say about 9mm handguns and bears- better file the front sight off your gun*

.45 acp can almost be loaded about up to old time cowboy .45 Colt. I'd use 220 grain semiwadcutters for the penetration.

I'm going to call this a no-brainer... Big Bore Revolver.

Now, here's the fightin' questions: single vs. double action, .44 Magnum vs. .45 Colt handloads, vs. 480 Ruger, .454 Casull, etc.

My personal choice for field use is .45 Colt Ruger Stainless Steel Bisley grip Blackhawk with Adjustable Sights. Handloaded to full potential of the Ruger cylinder.

Good Shootin'

Pete

(*you file the front sight off so it doesn't hurt so much when the bear shoves that 9mm handgun up your ass!)
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 9:22:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
1911 hands down.

I wouldn't wish a glock on my worst enemy.



...... Never Mind.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 1:45:57 AM EDT
Neither a Black Bear or a Mountain Lion is a particularly large animal. For animals that size (90 - 300 pounds) a 9mm with the right ammo will be just as effective as the .45ACP.

The Glock 17 will weigh less fully loaded with 18 rounds than the M1911 will weigh empty. So the Glock will fell much better on your hip.

In the end, buy whichever one you shoot better.

My hiking gun is a S&W 41 Mag revolver. Which is overkill for mountain lions and more than enough gun for Black Bear.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 3:10:18 AM EDT
Have why not be different and get a glock in 10mm... I don't know if I would want to shoot a bear with a 9mm....They are mostly fur and fat..I don't feel any current 9mm load out there would do the job...

For protection against four legged critters stick with a big bore wheel gun.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 4:22:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 4:28:05 PM EDT by j_g_r]
try a glock 36 .45acp. the barrel is less than an inch shorter than the g21(4.60 in. barrel length. g36,3.78 in. barrel length) i have both. the g36 is nice and thin, and will probably fit your hand just fine. go to your gun dealer and hold one. it'll do everything it's big brother will do, and fit where it won't. it only holds six rounds, but don't let that discourage you. six is plenty, plus another mag that it comes with=12 shots.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 4:55:12 PM EDT
Wasn't this question just asked a few days ago?

I know I posted a reply to it???
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:47:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 5:25:05 PM EDT
Both!

No really, I'm going to have to say the Glock, but not in 9mm.

Consider getting a G22 in .40 S&W and possibly even converting it to .357 sig (IIRC you drop in a G31 barrel).

I do a bit of range shooting, I havent moved up to personal defense or killing anything yet, but I own a Glock and a Kimber 1911.

I took the Kimber out this morning, shot great. Ran a box of Winchester 230's through it with 1 FTE. I guess it was a fluke, but the gun is new. The 1911 is a PAIN IN THE BUTT to clean. I spent about an hour and 30 minutes getting the slide and frame decently clean. Some flecks of copper would NOT come loose and it was a total test of sanity getting any type of brush in the crevices of the 1911 frame/slide. The Glock has taken me 15, 20 minutes TOPS to get totally clean. It's so simple, its unbelievable.

So, in summation:

1911 - Shoots great. Shoots smooth.
Glock - Shoots great, shoots smooth, but isnt a bitch to clean.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 11:42:15 AM EDT
Forget about a 9mm in your case. It's a small game round at best. You can load .45ACP hard cast for bear and a good JHP for cougar,they will get you by. Your biggest threat is from the two legged animals.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 5:54:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2003 5:55:10 PM EDT by RugerCal480]
I gotta go with you on the 1911 being a bitch to clean, Duke-o! The worst part is trying to get the key on the front to go on smoothly during reassembly...on the other hand, the Glock 22c is a snap to take apart clean and assemble!! Would that most USA guns were as easy to do!!
Mike
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 6:15:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2003 6:16:22 PM EDT by dukeofurl]
Exactly! The slide crevices and the frame can get deep, an unless you have an exceptionally large nylon brush, it gets VERY hard to get in the deep crevices to get the dirt and powder residue out.

The other part is on the slide, kimber has 2 large deep serrations on the upper right by the ejection port. Copper flecks get lodged in there and it is impossible to get them out without having a 55 gallon barrel of Hoppes #9 and a pressure washer!

You can get by with just the glock provied oversized bore brush in cleaning my 32. You can use an old toothbrush which works really well too.

Also - this is personal opinion, however others may agree with me. Cleaning rods - most cleaning rods have straight rod ends, where you thread the patch into the eyelet at a 90 degree angle. I HATE STRAIGHT ROD ENDS. My friend's dad has been shooting for years, and he has a cleaning rod with an offset eyelet. The rod attachement comes off the rod and then takes a 45 degree swing. When I thread the patch through, I can soak it with a good bore solvent and feed it into the barrel. I can look down the barrel and if there is some stubborn dirt, I can actually get very good scrubbing action using the angled end on the rod by adjusting a part of the patch to bear the brunt of my elbow grease. It also helps when you're cleaning the crevices of the glock to where you have a very small and long extension of your finger to get the dirt out of the hard to reach places. Sometimes there's dirt in my mag well, so I'll take a patch with solvent and scrub to clean that up nicely.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 7:06:01 PM EDT
Glock30 or Glock36
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 11:09:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RugerCal480:
I gotta go with you on the 1911 being a bitch to clean, Duke-o! The worst part is trying to get the key on the front to go on smoothly during reassembly...on the other hand, the Glock 22c is a snap to take apart clean and assemble!! Would that most USA guns were as easy to do!!
Mike



Key? You mean slide stop, right?

I have a small idiot mark on mine :(
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 2:10:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2003 10:04:45 AM EDT by Johnphin]
Might I ask why you've limited yourself to only these two choices?

10mm is good for wild animals. 10mm-lite (aka 40S&W) is more readily available. Might I suggest the Springfield XD? Fully supported chamber to lessen the chance of a kB!, and Remington loads their 165 grain bullets to around 488 lb./feet. Simplicity and ease of cleaning like a Glock, w/o the problems and ballistic fingerprinting database that they did with the BATF.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 4:05:31 AM EDT
Duke-O, Actually, it is the barrel bushing...on my Kimber Classic Royal, and getting it to "close" or "hold" at the same time the spring is compressed, is a real pain in the butt...on the other hand, The Kimber Ultra Carry II has no barrel bushing, but requires a "paper clip" type tool that keeps the spring compressed, but doesn't allow the barrel to then be removed from the slide for cleaning...the link on the Bob Turley website (http://www.bobtuley.com/45/index.html) is really a useful one for anyone field stripping a 1911 for the first couple of times, although I have never removed the extractor for cleaning (the Kimber manual doesn't recommend it).
Mike
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 6:22:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2003 6:27:01 PM EDT by j_ratliffe]
try a mini glock in 45 caliber, either a 30 or 36. they are both very reliable and accurate. i have both, and a g21. i also reload for all of them, excellent guns. you will never blow the damn things up. and if you are worried about ballistic finger printing(not), buy a crossbow.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 2:14:11 AM EDT
You have to go with the Glock. First when hunting the Glock will bed lighter even when carrying more ammo. It will hold more ammo (you might need many shots to hit a moving mountain lion)in standard or hi cap mags. The Glock will take much more of a beating and still work fine. The Glock is easier to clean after hunting trips. Ammo is cheaper for practice The only reason to go with a 1911 type 45 caliber would be for stopping power and at that range and with the right loads their wouldnt be much of a difference.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 2:15:57 AM EDT
1911
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 5:19:13 AM EDT
hmmm. my understanding of the law in my own state, Pennsylvania, is that you cannot hunt with any automatic pistol, or rifle. I have a concealed carry permit, but would need another permit to carry a pistol in the open (unconcealed) on my person, if in the woods during any hunting season. That second permit would allow me to shoot fishing or hunting, but would not allow me to carry a concealed weapon elsewhere. In addition you would need a valid hunting license. In the instance of hiking, in the woods, during hunting season, if I carried an automatic pistol, it would definitely put me in jeopardy with the law and game commision. Most hunters in PA carrying a pistol during hunting season would carry a revolver, most likely a 44 magnum. Hunting bear, mountain lion, elk, moose with a pistol would include guns in the .44 magnum, 480, 454 caliber ranges, but it better be something you can handle quickly in the case of a black bear, grizzly, or mountain lion...they can cover 100 yds quicker than you can re-cock a single action revolver in most instances...so figure one, maybe two shots and no mistakes or you could end up hamburger yourself : )
Mike
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:14:07 PM EDT
how about...just get a shotgun?
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 8:54:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sturmpioneer:
I want to use it when I go fishing, or hiking in the mountains, and I am curious as to how effective the 9mm would be against say a mountain lion or a black bear which i could very easily encounter on my trips into the woods.



Glock for reliability, durability, and lack of weight. But I would not got for a 9mm if you truly think you might run across these critters. Get the 40 S&W.

However my woods companion iin past was not my Glock or my Beretta. I'd grit my teeth at the weight, but smile at the stopping power of a nice .357 Magnum: S&W 686+.

You can never go wrong with a revolver. S&W and Taurus make revolvers specificly designed for trail use that are very light. I don't like them because of that as they are a pain to shoot and thus you won't practice with them. But that's me; maybe you'd be willing to endure the trial by fire of shooting them enough to get good with them.

Link Posted: 6/10/2003 6:25:25 PM EDT
whats the model glock that is chambered in 357sig? is it 33 or somthing? well whatever it is, get a glock for the reliability, and the 357sig round for some reasonable power.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 2:48:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dragthewaters:
whats the model glock that is chambered in 357sig? is it 33 or somthing? well whatever it is, get a glock for the reliability, and the 357sig round for some reasonable power.



31,32,33.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 2:57:02 PM EDT
The old "PLASTIC vs. STEEL" debate. ummmmm, Silicon parts are made for toys. GET a 1911.
Plastic is JUNK. IMHO not that it counts for much. I would not choose either of these guns for your intended purposes.

Go with the metal, that way if you shoot a black bear and piss him off. you have something hard to club him with.

Get you a BIG BORE REVOLVER. A .357sig or 10mm won't cut it.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 8:10:56 AM EDT
Best choice: one of each.
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