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Posted: 3/5/2006 7:20:44 PM EDT
Owned a 23 for a time. I liked it but wasnt terribly accurate with it. Wondering what the compensated 23's are like....

Discuss.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 8:07:58 PM EDT
Do not get the compsensated model for carry. In low light, or no light conditions, the muzzle flash getting re directed up into your sight picture can blind you, also, you run the risk of getting burned if you need to shoot from a wierd position close to the body. Although that may be very rare, it's better to reduce the risk in that circumstance.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 1:44:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 1:44:35 AM EDT by NCPatrolAR]
Comp'ed guns have no place in personal defense carry IMO. The increased muzzle flash (especially coming from the ports) will greatly limited, if not outright destroy, your night vision. Also you run a good chance of getting burned if shooting from certain retention positions.

If you are having problems shooting the 23 accurately, try going to the 19 with Ranger or SXT loads instead.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:10:20 AM EDT
good points, both of you! Thanks
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:42:28 PM EDT
I bought a 32C (.357 sig round) a little over a year and a half ago. I bought it when my department went to the 31, and it was the last 32 left (with a 2 month wait on any more to come - I work primarily plain clothes so smaller is better up to a point). I was concerned about all of the rumors I had heard about muzzle flash and whatnot, but decided to try it on the advice of my then-SWAT team commander, who had a comped Glock (and this guy is a pretty good firearms instructor and tac guy).

My partner bought the last 32 out from under me (the bastard), so I have gotten to shoot them side by side. Here's what I have found:

-Muzzle flash problems - basically, when shooting at night or low-light conditions, the shape of the flash blindness left in your eyes is a different. You are equally blind with both guns after firing. With good ammo, it's not a huge deal, but you should be carrying a light anyway. Don't worry about it, and get a white light. Train with it. Problem solved.

-Port Blast - figured this out the first day I had it. Did out PD qual, which starts out with a QCB/weapons retention position very close in to the body at close range. The ports create a little pressure that you notice a little on the range. It is not painful or debilitating in any way. Again - about the same as the non-comped gun. If you stick your eyeball on the port, you will have problems. If you stick your eyeball on the muzzle, you will have problems. Keep your eyeballs more than a foot from where the fire comes out of the gun, and you will have no problems. Don't stick your tongue in the ports either. Again, problem solved.

-Getting Burned - i'll light my left arm on fire if it means I will win the gunfight. Worry about getting shot, not about boo-boos. Don't get into gunfights while covered in gasoline, and you should be OK.

-velocity loss - it was about 15 fps compared to my partner's 32. I have shot this gun into ballistic gel at a terminal ballistics workshop, and it performed every bit as well with the same ammo as the 32 and 21 (penetration depth and expansion of bullet). I have one of the bullets I saved around here somewhere. BTW, we use Speer Gold Dot 125 grainers.

Now, the ports really do reduce the muzzle flip, and I shoot better with this gun than any other I have ever had (493/500 was what I shot the first time I qualled with it on a 50 shot, 1-50 yard timed course). If you are not accurate with your 23, the 23c won't help. Practice will - the c helps control muzzle flip only, and might help you with a flinch if that's your problem. If you are wanting the comp to solve your accuracy problems, you are barking up the wrong tree. If you want it to help your shot to shot recovery time, this can help.

Comped Glocks are viable defense tools. Do not discount them. The 'problems' are insignificant relative to whatever you are facing in your gunfight, if it happens.

Just my $0.02 - but it is based on actual experience with both types of guns.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:52:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPDSNYPR:
I bought a 32C (.357 sig round) a little over a year and a half ago. I bought it when my department went to the 31, and it was the last 32 left (with a 2 month wait on any more to come - I work primarily plain clothes so smaller is better up to a point). I was concerned about all of the rumors I had heard about muzzle flash and whatnot, but decided to try it on the advice of my then-SWAT team commander, who had a comped Glock (and this guy is a pretty good firearms instructor and tac guy).

My partner bought the last 32 out from under me (the bastard), so I have gotten to shoot them side by side. Here's what I have found:

-Muzzle flash problems - basically, when shooting at night or low-light conditions, the shape of the flash blindness left in your eyes is a different. You are equally blind with both guns after firing. With good ammo, it's not a huge deal, but you should be carrying a light anyway. Don't worry about it, and get a white light. Train with it. Problem solved.

-Port Blast - figured this out the first day I had it. Did out PD qual, which starts out with a QCB/weapons retention position very close in to the body at close range. The ports create a little pressure that you notice a little on the range. It is not painful or debilitating in any way. Again - about the same as the non-comped gun. If you stick your eyeball on the port, you will have problems. If you stick your eyeball on the muzzle, you will have problems. Keep your eyeballs more than a foot from where the fire comes out of the gun, and you will have no problems. Don't stick your tongue in the ports either. Again, problem solved.

-Getting Burned - i'll light my left arm on fire if it means I will win the gunfight. Worry about getting shot, not about boo-boos. Don't get into gunfights while covered in gasoline, and you should be OK.

-velocity loss - it was about 15 fps compared to my partner's 32. I have shot this gun into ballistic gel at a terminal ballistics workshop, and it performed every bit as well with the same ammo as the 32 and 21 (penetration depth and expansion of bullet). I have one of the bullets I saved around here somewhere. BTW, we use Speer Gold Dot 125 grainers.

Now, the ports really do reduce the muzzle flip, and I shoot better with this gun than any other I have ever had (493/500 was what I shot the first time I qualled with it on a 50 shot, 1-50 yard timed course). If you are not accurate with your 23, the 23c won't help. Practice will - the c helps control muzzle flip only, and might help you with a flinch if that's your problem. If you are wanting the comp to solve your accuracy problems, you are barking up the wrong tree. If you want it to help your shot to shot recovery time, this can help.

Comped Glocks are viable defense tools. Do not discount them. The 'problems' are insignificant relative to whatever you are facing in your gunfight, if it happens.

Just my $0.02 - but it is based on actual experience with both types of guns.



i've had the same experience with a 19c & a 17c. shooting any pistol in low light is uncomfortable on the eyes, but i couldn't tell the difference between ported & unported. the compensated 17 is similar to shooting a .380 or .32 and allows for very fast and accurate follow up shots. the 23c that a friend of mine has is an accurate little pistol, as the comp rids it of the normal muzzle rise of 23.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:16:31 PM EDT
Great posts guys.

I have to agree that no matter which gun you choose...your eyes will be affected to some degree. I personally carry a Glock 23C all the time. It's a great gun.

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:19:25 PM EDT
I've got a 23c, 23, 21 and 20c. To me the flash on the "c" guns seems to be almost out of my line of sight. So as far as I can tell there is little if any difference in the muzzle flash.

I've been using a 21c as a duty gun, and cqb drills are not a problem, yes there is some heat and no it is not a high pressure round, but again it does not bother me. I will try with the 20c next time i get it out.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:29:10 PM EDT
If you fire from the index, you will be be burned and blinded. Comp models are for little girls.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:58:53 PM EDT
I am still a b le .... t o seeeee

No joke, I use my 23c and 21c in close retention and have had no problem, like I said before, you can "feel" the heat, but not so bad as not to do it.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:11:47 PM EDT
I carry a 23C and love it. I've shot in low light and had no problems with the flash. Just my .02
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 3:51:25 AM EDT
Do not get a G23C.....Buddy has one and it sucks! We went to TDI in Ohio for a two day handgun class and he took the only pistol he had.......his EDC G23C. In low light it is very much like a fire breathing dragon with two big flames out the top. In drills shooting from the draw/hip the thing almost blew his safty glasses right off his face. Did I also tell you that it gets very dirty around the ports........down right nasty. He has since got himself a non-compsensated barrel and is much happier. Will say one thing while at TDI shooting over 1500 rounds in two days the only times his G23C or my G22 FTF was when the instructors loaded our mags for TRB drills.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 1:10:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 1:12:18 PM EDT by EntryTac]
Had a 31C and 32C and sold them both after an ND left me with burns and shrapnel in my off hand from the ports. I picked shrapnel out of my fingers for 4-5 months. Nobody will tell me that the stuff coming from the ports isn't dangerous. I'm not going to risk having that crap coming toward my eyes in a CQB/contact range gunfight... Maybe ok on the range and in training, but dynamic self defense situations could very well leave you with eye damage. Not worth the risk in my opinion.

Besides, when I had the two comp'd guns I also owned the non-comped 31 and 32 and to be perfectly honest I couldn't tell that much difference in percieved recoil between them. The biggest difference I percieved was that the C models were louder on an indoor range due to the ports bouncing the report from the ceilings and walls betwee the lanes.

In this poll my vote goes to the non-comp'd 23 for carry, hands down...
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 1:34:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EntryTac:
Had a 31C and 32C and sold them both after an ND left me with burns and shrapnel in my off hand from the ports. I picked shrapnel out of my fingers for 4-5 months. Nobody will tell me that the stuff coming from the ports isn't dangerous. I'm not going to risk having that crap coming toward my eyes in a CQB/contact range gunfight... Maybe ok on the range and in training, but dynamic self defense situations could very well leave you with eye damage. Not worth the risk in my opinion.

Besides, when I had the two comp'd guns I also owned the non-comped 31 and 32 and to be perfectly honest I couldn't tell that much difference in percieved recoil between them. The biggest difference I percieved was that the C models were louder on an indoor range due to the ports bouncing the report from the ceilings and walls betwee the lanes.

In this poll my vote goes to the non-comp'd 23 for carry, hands down...



Excellent post! Thanks
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 10:35:05 PM EDT
Most tactical experts will tell you not to get the "C" because of low light shooting. It is slower to get back on target than the non-c. Some have said that it is not a problem, but my guess is that they are just a little slower.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 10:59:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ljtag:
Most tactical experts will tell you not to get the "C" because of low light shooting. It is slower to get back on target than the non-c. Some have said that it is not a problem, but my guess is that they are just a little slower.



I think a statement like that shows a lack of brain function. I carry a Glock 23C 75% of the time. At 7 yards I can place every shot in a 4" square as fast as I can pull the trigger. At 25 yards I can keep it to a 7" square. I'm not talking slow fire here either. It has nothing to do with whether or not it's a ported handgun or not.

Practice Practice Practice.

Become familiar with a handgun and get good with it. Doesn't matter what type...doesn't matter what caliber. Speed and shot placement.

To say people that shoot ported handguns are slower is rediculous.

I'm new to Carbine type weapons...but i've been shooting pistols for years. Fact is...I can shoot a ported Glock faster and more acurately than a non-ported Glock. YMMV. It's all about practice. I shoot on average 3 times a week. If I practiced more or had more training...I would be able to shoot to the ported Glock level with a non-ported Glock.

Do yourself a favor...go into a gunrange and ask for the lights to be turned off (if they let you) or to a very low level. Then I want you to shoot a regular pistol and compare it to a ported pistol. Tell me how much difference there really is. As far as getting burned or shrapnel in the body...i'll take speed and accuracy over a momentary pain any day and twice on Sundays.

Just my .02

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:14:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 10:16:11 PM EDT by ljtag]

Originally Posted By MEI2757935:
Originally Posted By ljtag:
Most tactical experts will tell you not to get the "C" because of low light shooting. It is slower to get back on target than the non-c. Some have said that it is not a problem, but my guess is that they are just a little slower.



I think a statement like that shows a lack of brain function. I carry a Glock 23C 75% of the time. At 7 yards I can place every shot in a 4" square as fast as I can pull the trigger. At 25 yards I can keep it to a 7" square. I'm not talking slow fire here either. It has nothing to do with whether or not it's a ported handgun or not.

Practice Practice Practice.

Become familiar with a handgun and get good with it. Doesn't matter what type...doesn't matter what caliber. Speed and shot placement.

To say people that shoot ported handguns are slower is rediculous.

I'm new to Carbine type weapons...but i've been shooting pistols for years. Fact is...I can shoot a ported Glock faster and more acurately than a non-ported Glock. YMMV. It's all about practice. I shoot on average 3 times a week. If I practiced more or had more training...I would be able to shoot to the ported Glock level with a non-ported Glock.

Do yourself a favor...go into a gunrange and ask for the lights to be turned off (if they let you) or to a very low level. Then I want you to shoot a regular pistol and compare it to a ported pistol. Tell me how much difference there really is. As far as getting burned or shrapnel in the body...i'll take speed and accuracy over a momentary pain any day and twice on Sundays.


Just my .02

Quite a statement asswipe

I am just stating what I read, and it makes perfect sense. And I am willing to bet a C not that you have no fuckin idea what you can shoot faster. Why dont you tell us all about the study you did when you went out and actually used a timer to test wether or not you know what you are talking about. Why? Cause you did not. I am telling you what i read from a couple of guys who went out and actually shot both and timed both and every time the "C" was a tad bit slower. So if you aint donea test STFU and quit acting like your are some pro that has done his research. The lack of brain would come form someone who does not know anything about eye/pupil function. If your in the dark and a flash hits your eyes, what the Fuck happens? Thank you.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 3:16:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 4:59:48 PM EDT by teamroper2004]
23C & 32C, both shot at night, one w/SFX200, the other w/o white light! No night blindess(no different for me than non-ported Glock), I didn't get burned, I also fired the "C" Glocks close and next to my body, I did feel a little more pressure, but nothing caught on fire! I carry the 23C and the 32C is my nightstand gun, I feel comfortable w/both!

If a person doesn't want one, fine by me, but it makes me laugh when people go by what they heard or read.............don't dog it unless you tried it!

Let the FLAMES(pun intended)begin!

Oh, my wife carries a G27 mag-na-ported, she loves it!

teamroper
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 4:00:34 PM EDT
Comps are for race guns.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 4:26:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Comps are for race guns.



The Glock C models aren't comped, they're ported, big difference!

Again, to each their own!

teamroper
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 9:23:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ggllggll:
Owned a 23 for a time. I liked it but wasnt terribly accurate with it. Wondering what the compensated 23's are like....

Discuss.



Why would you drill holes in a perfectly good gun? If you want less felt recoil get a real compensator.

I shoot the glock 40's quite well. However my gunsmith friends aren't too crazy about .40 or glocks. I carry a G19 at the moment, a good compromise between capacity and concealability.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 12:44:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SPDSNYPR:
I bought a 32C (.357 sig round) a little over a year and a half ago. I bought it when my department went to the 31, and it was the last 32 left (with a 2 month wait on any more to come - I work primarily plain clothes so smaller is better up to a point). I was concerned about all of the rumors I had heard about muzzle flash and whatnot, but decided to try it on the advice of my then-SWAT team commander, who had a comped Glock (and this guy is a pretty good firearms instructor and tac guy).

My partner bought the last 32 out from under me (the bastard), so I have gotten to shoot them side by side. Here's what I have found:

-Muzzle flash problems - basically, when shooting at night or low-light conditions, the shape of the flash blindness left in your eyes is a different. You are equally blind with both guns after firing. With good ammo, it's not a huge deal, but you should be carrying a light anyway. Don't worry about it, and get a white light. Train with it. Problem solved.

-Port Blast - figured this out the first day I had it. Did out PD qual, which starts out with a QCB/weapons retention position very close in to the body at close range. The ports create a little pressure that you notice a little on the range. It is not painful or debilitating in any way. Again - about the same as the non-comped gun. If you stick your eyeball on the port, you will have problems. If you stick your eyeball on the muzzle, you will have problems. Keep your eyeballs more than a foot from where the fire comes out of the gun, and you will have no problems. Don't stick your tongue in the ports either. Again, problem solved.

-Getting Burned - i'll light my left arm on fire if it means I will win the gunfight. Worry about getting shot, not about boo-boos. Don't get into gunfights while covered in gasoline, and you should be OK.

-velocity loss - it was about 15 fps compared to my partner's 32. I have shot this gun into ballistic gel at a terminal ballistics workshop, and it performed every bit as well with the same ammo as the 32 and 21 (penetration depth and expansion of bullet). I have one of the bullets I saved around here somewhere. BTW, we use Speer Gold Dot 125 grainers.

Now, the ports really do reduce the muzzle flip, and I shoot better with this gun than any other I have ever had (493/500 was what I shot the first time I qualled with it on a 50 shot, 1-50 yard timed course). If you are not accurate with your 23, the 23c won't help. Practice will - the c helps control muzzle flip only, and might help you with a flinch if that's your problem. If you are wanting the comp to solve your accuracy problems, you are barking up the wrong tree. If you want it to help your shot to shot recovery time, this can help.

Comped Glocks are viable defense tools. Do not discount them. The 'problems' are insignificant relative to whatever you are facing in your gunfight, if it happens.

Just my $0.02 - but it is based on actual experience with both types of guns.



Thank You!

I have both a 23c and a 21c. Presently, my duty weapon is a standard Gen 3 model 22. I am in the process of ordering a 22c for it's replacement.

A ported handgun will not be a miracle cure to poor shooting ability. The fact is, if you presently have a flinch, a ported handgun will only magnify the problem. What a ported handgun WILL do, is allow you to more rapidly recover from muzzle-flip for the second shot.

You have completely outlined every possible negative, and disspelled the myth. The old "I heard" or "my buddy has" just won't hold water compared to actual test results.

To the guy who got schrapnel in his hand as a result of firing a 23c. This testament begs the question: Where in the hell was your off-hand and how could it have possibly been over the top of the barrel, that close to the muzzle, if you were practicing safe gun handling?
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:05:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 5:06:55 PM EDT by teamroper2004]

Originally Posted By anomad:

Originally Posted By ggllggll:
Owned a 23 for a time. I liked it but wasnt terribly accurate with it. Wondering what the compensated 23's are like....

Discuss.



Why would you drill holes in a perfectly good gun? If you want less felt recoil get a real compensator.

I shoot the glock 40's quite well. However my gunsmith friends aren't too crazy about .40 or glocks. I carry a G19 at the moment, a good compromise between capacity and concealability.



No disrepect, but why if you shoot the .40 well, why would you carry a 9mm just because your gunsmith buddies aren't too crazy about .40's or Glocks? Just curious.

I will tell you, that I wouldn't feel any less protected by your choice of the G19!

teamroper
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