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Posted: 2/24/2006 5:25:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 5:27:16 PM EDT by Ranger99]
Which should I get and why. I like the glock but if the XD gets 13+1 ACP vs 8+1 GAP in the glock. Is the grip of the glock much smaller then the XD? I have a glock 19 now and would like to stay with glock but need some help to pick which one. This will be a duty gun.

Thanks
Ranger99
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:42:23 PM EDT
I bought a XD 45acp a few weeks ago, and put 400+ rds through it so far, and love the thing. I've had zero malfunctions with it, it fits my hand well, and the recoil isn't bad at all, making follow ups easy. The main selling points for me were fit, and capacity( 14 ). I held several Glocks, and like the feel of the XD better, I haven't shot a Glock 45, so I can't say the XD shoots better.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:06:50 PM EDT
Id go Glock but would choose the glock 30 or 36 over the 38.. Im just not a fan of the GAP round... I love my G30 and G26, wouldnt change my pick to anything else if i had the choice too.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:07:01 PM EDT
Listen to a guy that carries a Glock on-duty everyday......Get the XD. My glock has saved my butt a couple of times, but a pistol in 45acp with the grip of a glock 17/22 is the way to go.
As soon as I can get the ok I'll be changing my duty weapon.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:11:47 PM EDT
The .45 gap is a more powerful round.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:22:40 AM EDT
Well the XD is Bigger then the G38 so really ask yourself, full size or compact
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:14:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
The .45 gap is a more powerful round.



?
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:19:47 AM EDT
GAP = Less than widespread/ favorable reception and an uncertain future. Personally I would go with a proven round. The .45 is going nowhere. The XD's high capacity is a plus.


YMMV

sst7
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 12:14:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TN-popo:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
The .45 gap is a more powerful round.



?

Same size bullet, same weight bullet, but it's faster. Next?
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 2:16:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 2:27:28 PM EDT by viper5194]
Kinda curious as to how its faster when its a smaller case all together. Wouldnt you think, less powder charge, slower bullet?


EDIT to Add: Not much difference at all when compairing similar bullet weights. Seems like more powerfull is determined by the bullet weight. I can claim my .45 ACP rounds are more powerfull than the GAP because I carry the 185gr TAP ammo ( 1050 ft/s muzzle Vel. )...Based on info ive found, the ACP TAP exceeds anything they make in GAP

.45 acp
Muzzle velocity
14.7 g (230 gr) Full Metal Jacket: 260 m/s (860 ft/s)
11.9 g (185 gr) CCI/Speer Gold Dot JHP (from 5in (127 mm) barrel): 317 m/s (1041 ft/s)
14.7 g (230 gr) Federal Hi-Shok JHP (from 5 in (127 mm) barrel): 260 m/s (860 ft/s)
+ P loads

11.9 g (185 gr) JHP: 350 m/s (1150 ft/s)
14.7 g (230 gr) JHP: 290 m/s (950 ft/s)



.45 GAP
Muzzle velocity:
12.9 g (200 gr) full metal jacket: 290 m/s (950 ft/s)
12.0 g (185 gr) hollow point: 310 m/s (1020 ft/s)
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 2:19:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By viper5194:
Kinda curious as to how its faster when its a smaller case all together. Wouldnt you think, less powder charge, slower bullet?

Different kind of powder that burns faster. It's ok to be curious. Not all powders are the same. They have different burn rates and the powder used in the gap round cooks off faster. The idea has be proposed and tried of using the powder used in the gap in the regular .45 acp case. If you put the same amount volume wise, it'll blow your .45 acp gun up.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 3:31:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TxDeputy:
Listen to a guy that carries a Glock on-duty everyday......Get the XD. My glock has saved my butt a couple of times, but a pistol in 45acp with the grip of a glock 17/22 is the way to go.
As soon as I can get the ok I'll be changing my duty weapon.



Ironically you just described the G37

In my opinion the XD45 and G19 are in two different leagues. If you can carry the XD45 on duty then go for it. If you are looking for something to carry undercover then go with the G19.

Link Posted: 2/28/2006 3:39:58 PM EDT
If teh GAP makes it and the 10MM continues to just barely hold on (based on ammo availability and price) I will be forever convinced that the gun Gods HATE my guts.........

Get the ACP and carry TAP and be done with it. The GAP was a solution to a non existent problem IMHO.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:44:05 AM EDT
Something to chew on. There is a reason that Glocks are carried by something like 65% of US law enforcement agencies. The main reason is the proven reliability. The XD's simply do not have that record under their belt, and to add fuel to the fire. Some of the departements around here have removed XD's from there approved list of weapons, because of the cracked locking blocks that have been found on some of them. Even at low round counts.

I am not saying the XD45ACP suffers from the problem, but the fact of the matter is, the 45ACP in XD is an unproven platform, and some form of extremism had to be implemented in order to squeeze that many rounds in that size of a package. It remains to be seen if that will cause problems in the future.

For the record, I own all three models of 45GAP Glocks, and XD's in 9mm, 45GAP, and the tactical 45ACP. I am still building my trust in the XD's but I have not had a single problem with mine to complain about. For duty carry, for the time being, between the two I would carry the G38, with back-up magazines with +2 extenders on them. And to be honest with you, I would probably go for a G37 instead of the G38, unless it was for concealed carry in addition to duty use. I have not had a problem finding ammo and there are slowly but surely more departments adding the Glock GAP's to their primary or approved to carry lists.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:11:14 AM EDT
The thing I find funny about the whole GAP ACP thing is that there are a lot of people out there that would like to get the GAP but keep saying they will wait to see how it do's as far as catching on with the public. Now if everyone that said they would wait would just go out and get one I think the round would be doing good now. I just think the GAP round is getting a bad name because there are to many people just waiting for someone else to make the first move as far as buying one. And for those people that say the GAP is not needed I think that it is. I have small hands and if I can have .45 power in a package that fits me then it has a use and I know I'm not the only shooter that has small hands.

Just my .2

Ranger99
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:39:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By viper5194:
Kinda curious as to how its faster when its a smaller case all together. Wouldnt you think, less powder charge, slower bullet?


EDIT to Add: Not much difference at all when compairing similar bullet weights. Seems like more powerfull is determined by the bullet weight. I can claim my .45 ACP rounds are more powerfull than the GAP because I carry the 185gr TAP ammo ( 1050 ft/s muzzle Vel. )...Based on info ive found, the ACP TAP exceeds anything they make in GAP

.45 acp
Muzzle velocity
14.7 g (230 gr) Full Metal Jacket: 260 m/s (860 ft/s)
11.9 g (185 gr) CCI/Speer Gold Dot JHP (from 5in (127 mm) barrel): 317 m/s (1041 ft/s)
14.7 g (230 gr) Federal Hi-Shok JHP (from 5 in (127 mm) barrel): 260 m/s (860 ft/s)
+ P loads

11.9 g (185 gr) JHP: 350 m/s (1150 ft/s)
14.7 g (230 gr) JHP: 290 m/s (950 ft/s)



.45 GAP
Muzzle velocity:
12.9 g (200 gr) full metal jacket: 290 m/s (950 ft/s)
12.0 g (185 gr) hollow point: 310 m/s (1020 ft/s)



Looking at identical bullets, in terms of weight, and type, usually the GAP is 10-15% faster. At least with most of the articles and charts I've seen.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:05:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ranger99:
The thing I find funny about the whole GAP ACP thing is that there are a lot of people out there that would like to get the GAP but keep saying they will wait to see how it do's as far as catching on with the public. Now if everyone that said they would wait would just go out and get one I think the round would be doing good now. I just think the GAP round is getting a bad name because there are to many people just waiting for someone else to make the first move as far as buying one. And for those people that say the GAP is not needed I think that it is. I have small hands and if I can have .45 power in a package that fits me then it has a use and I know I'm not the only shooter that has small hands.

Just my .2

Ranger99



just picked up a g38 lasty week for the same reason. i have not had any trouble finding GAP ammo.
just my .o2 cents
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:22:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 1:23:26 PM EDT by unseenSNIPER]
Glock 38.

I am sick and tired when people say the GAP was a solution to a nonexistant problem. The problem was that people liked the .45, but not Glock's grip on the .45 models. Therefore, Glock introduced a new pistol that had their 17/19/26 grip, but chambered for a .45 bullet. Of course people are complaining about how Glock did it (introduce the .45GAP), but hey, whatever works for you.

Ammowise, most of us here buy ammo from online. GAP ammo is easy to find online.

I personally like the idea of the .45GAP, but haven't picked one up because I've not come across any used ones in TX. If ya got a G39 you'd like to sell in TX please email me!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 3:14:49 PM EDT
SA XD

b/c when i walk into wally world, i ask for a box of 100rnd value pak or 45 GAP and they give me a WTF
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:40:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
SA XD

b/c when i walk into wally world, i ask for a box of 100rnd value pak or 45 GAP and they give me a WTF



Go the Winchester website, or ask the WallyWorld clerk to see their ammo ordering catalog. Show them which product number you want, and they will order it for you.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:31:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 12:36:49 PM EDT by Ranger99]

Originally Posted By H53EXPERT:



Go the Winchester website, or ask the WallyWorld clerk to see their ammo ordering catalog. Show them which product number you want, and they will order it for you.



GOOD POINT.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:26:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By viper5194:
Kinda curious as to how its faster when its a smaller case all together. Wouldnt you think, less powder charge, slower bullet?

Different kind of powder that burns faster. It's ok to be curious. Not all powders are the same. They have different burn rates and the powder used in the gap round cooks off faster. The idea has be proposed and tried of using the powder used in the gap in the regular .45 acp case. If you put the same amount volume wise, it'll blow your .45 acp gun up.



Wrong. I use the same powder (Titegroup), the same bullet (230 gr). 4 gr of powder in the GAP gives me around a 170 power factor. It takes 4.2 grains in the ACP to get the same power factor. The factoy GAP rounds are loaded just a little hotter than the standard pressure 45 ACP rounds. A GAP just has less air space in the case.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:57:04 PM EDT
You come out of the wood work for your second post to tell me I'm wrong, when you in a round about way, backed up what I said, now that's funny.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 4:25:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
You come out of the wood work for your second post to tell me I'm wrong, when you in a round about way, backed up what I said, now that's funny.



Now just how did I back you up? If I use the same amount of powder in the ACP I get less power! You said the same amount would blow up your ACP. It doesn't matter how long I've been here. When I see someone putting out totally bogus information, I have to chime in.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 6:51:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GRR:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
You come out of the wood work for your second post to tell me I'm wrong, when you in a round about way, backed up what I said, now that's funny.



Now just how did I back you up? If I use the same amount of powder in the ACP I get less power! You said the same amount would blow up your ACP. It doesn't matter how long I've been here. When I see someone putting out totally bogus information, I have to chime in.

Are all powders the same? nope, some of them are more powerful than others. Typical factory loads for GAP use a faster burning powder that if loaded into an ACP case and fired could cause a real Kaboom. Not bogus info, just not the same info as yours. Your talking about using the exact same powder in the ammo, I'm not. See the difference?
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 6:59:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By GRR:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
You come out of the wood work for your second post to tell me I'm wrong, when you in a round about way, backed up what I said, now that's funny.



Now just how did I back you up? If I use the same amount of powder in the ACP I get less power! You said the same amount would blow up your ACP. It doesn't matter how long I've been here. When I see someone putting out totally bogus information, I have to chime in.

Are all powders the same? nope, some of them are more powerful than others. Typical factory loads for GAP use a faster burning powder that if loaded into an ACP case and fired could cause a real Kaboom. Not bogus info, just not the same info as yours. Your talking about using the exact same powder in the ammo, I'm not. See the difference?



Not really. Here's a way to convince me. State your source.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 7:07:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 7:08:35 PM EDT by txgp17]
I cannot believe this.
Page 2, and I'm the first one to say:

GET BOTH!

Oh, me I'd go with the GLOCK
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 9:28:32 PM EDT
How about neither?

I've heard mostly good things about the XD 45, but I don't like the grip safety, and frankly I think the XD line is a bit tacky. (I hate anything called "Xtreme!!!11")

The .45 GAP is a gimmick cartridge. It's just a necked down .45 loaded to higher pressures... why not just get a .45 ACP and be able to fire standard ammo AND +P ammo that exceedes the .45 GAP? Sorry to break it to gaston, but the GAP was a silly idea, and his cartridge is doomed.

Try a Glock 21, see how it fits your mits. If it's way too big, then go for the XD if you simply must have a .45.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 10:29:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 10:34:14 PM EDT by Rockclimbg]

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By GRR:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
You come out of the wood work for your second post to tell me I'm wrong, when you in a round about way, backed up what I said, now that's funny.



Now just how did I back you up? If I use the same amount of powder in the ACP I get less power! You said the same amount would blow up your ACP. It doesn't matter how long I've been here. When I see someone putting out totally bogus information, I have to chime in.

Are all powders the same? nope, some of them are more powerful than others. Typical factory loads for GAP use a faster burning powder that if loaded into an ACP case and fired could cause a real Kaboom. Not bogus info, just not the same info as yours. Your talking about using the exact same powder in the ammo, I'm not. See the difference?



Dusty_C,

Do you reload .45 GAP or .45 ACP? With all due respect, you seem to have been misinformed about these two cartridges based on what you have typed in this thread.

I've loaded and Chrono'd both loads and can tell you that there is a lot more going on with the GAP than a different powder. I'm still a bigger fan of the .45 ACP because brass is so much more plentiful. That said, I think the GAP is a better more efficient round, it can sling the same bullet weight at roughly the same velocity as the much larger .45ACP. If only it was more common.

You state that if you put the same volume of powder in a .45 ACP that is used in a GAP, it will blow up your gun. Please tell me what kind of powder that is? And please post were you got this information. I'm curious how a cartridge with a lower case volume (the GAP) would overcharge a higher volume cartridge (.45 ACP). Check out these links for a small sample of load data for .45 GAP and .45 ACP. You can get an idea of the difference in pressure and the difference in powder charge.

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/45acp.php

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/45glockauto.php

Dusty_C, check your source of information and if necessary, B---- Slap it.

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