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Posted: 12/9/2005 10:45:31 AM EDT
So a few months ago I go to Glock armorer and decide I'd like to put an extended slide catch (it is not a release per Glock, Inc) lever on my 21. A short time later I buy a few aftermarket levers for the 21 and my 36. I shoot my 21 often and the new part worked fine. I wear the 36 often because I work plainclothes, but don't shoot it as much simply because it's not as "fun".

Fast forward to yesterday. I'm conducting department qualifications and decide I'd like to shoot the little bastard. Boom. Slide locks to rear. Boom. Slide locks to rear. WTF? Grip is good. Change ammo. Boom. Slide locks to rear. It does this over and over and over. So I go home and find the old slide catch lever. Big difference. The lip that is raised by the magazine follower is MUCH smaller than the standard Glock. The extended lever was being caught by the ammo, not the follower. I will attempt to file off part of the lip on the extended lever and post results.

Big lesson learned. Shoot your weapon after any modification, especially if you carry the damn thing every day of the week.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 11:13:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 11:15:47 AM EDT by BrianNH]

Originally Posted By bcw107:
Big lesson learned. Shoot your weapon after any modification, especially if you carry the damn thing every day of the week.



If I read your post correctly, I assume that you were using an aftermarket extended slide stop in your G36, and that is what you were shooting that gave you problems. If so, there is even a BIGGER lesson to be learned.....

Dont dink around with aftermarket Glock Parts !

I would hope your department armorer is not promoting the use of aftermarket parts or allowing individual officers to make their own modifications on their pistols. Isn't there some sort of protocol which prohibits this or can any officer do what they want with their pistol?
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 11:24:19 AM EDT
Kinda sucks Glock does not make a "Extended Slide Catch" for the G36. But with a little mod you can make it work.


Done it a few times.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 11:27:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 11:27:42 AM EDT by markm]

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:
Kinda sucks Glock does not make a "Extended Slide Catch" for the G36. But with a little mod you can make it work.



What Kinda sucks is that people aren't trained correctly to NOT USE the Slide Stop as a RELEASE.

There is no need for that custom part because you shouldn't be dropping the slide with it in the first place.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 11:43:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:
Kinda sucks Glock does not make a "Extended Slide Catch" for the G36. But with a little mod you can make it work.



What Kinda sucks is that people aren't trained correctly to NOT USE the Slide Stop as a RELEASE.

There is no need for that custom part because you shouldn't be dropping the slide with it in the first place.



Mark brings up even a better point.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 12:20:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 12:27:50 PM EDT by timothy585]
How about on a 1911 type. Is it a slide-stop or release?

Also, what is the US military training regarding releasing the slide of the M-9 after a full mag is inserted?

Just curious.

Edited to add second question.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 12:34:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By timothy585:
Also, what is the US military training regarding releasing the slide of the M-9 after a full mag is inserted?



Good question, because that stupid slide mounted safety creates problems with weapon manipulation.

I'd guess that the mil trains to use the slide stop for release, but mil training is different than LE/personal defense training.

Link Posted: 12/9/2005 12:54:10 PM EDT
I was curious because probably most other major auto-pistol manufacturers have slide-releases.

If I remember right, the mechanical design of any Glock relies on that extra couple of millimeters of rearward travel gained when the support hand releases the slide to supply the necessary force to properly chamber a round, per their design.

What's difficult for a middle-aged man, who has fired various autos half his life, is to change his ingrained reloading technique for what seems to be just another auto. And I'm pretty sure Glock won't advertise this fact too loudly, as it might result in quite a few lost sales. You know what I mean?

As for me, I had the same problem with my AroTek extended release on my 21. A little dremel and coldblue and it has functioned flawlessly ever since.

I believe that if you maintain your handgun properly-cleaning, lube, etc., chambering with the slide-stop shouldn't be a problem. Now if this Glock is going to see ROUGH service, the weak-hand release may be the way to train and execute.

My .02

Have a good one!
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 1:14:00 PM EDT
I knew what you were going to say when I read the title to this post b/c I had the exact same experience. When I first got my G36, I decided to 'upgrade' the mag release and slide release (which I had done to my G17 with no problems).

If I'm not mistaken, Glock doesn't make an extended slide release for the G36 like they do for their other models. I had the 'Glock Guy' at the gunshow custom fit one of the other extended slide releases for my G36, as well as install the extended mag release.

My first trip to the range with the new upgrades and the slide kept locking open (same problem as you described). Since I didn't have the old part with me, I simply removed the new (modified) one and continued to practice until I got home and was able to replace it with the original. Problem solved.

Next, I experienced on a few ocasions my mags coming loose or completely drop out of my gun inadvertantly because the mag release was getting pressed when I didn't want it to. Remove the extended mag release and replace with the original. Problem solved.

Lesson learned: A stock Glock is the BEST Glock. Don't change anything (except maybe the sights) unless you absolutely have to, and only used Glock parts if they are available.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 2:50:51 PM EDT
So you have been carrying FOR DUTY a gun that does not work properly? WTF, didn't you or the armoror try it with the aftermarket part?
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 3:04:42 PM EDT
Well that's just great, my Glock owners manual is wrong!


Link Posted: 12/9/2005 3:09:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:
Well that's just great, my Glock owners manual is wrong!



Link Posted: 12/9/2005 6:03:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:
Well that's just great, my Glock owners manual is wrong!






About what?
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 8:16:58 AM EDT
On of my instructors told our class of a guy who would fanatically use the slide stop on his glock to release the slide. Eventually he wore the notch in the slide to the point that it would not lock back.

It would still fire, of course. And that's the important part. But he had to have his slide notch recut.

Link Posted: 12/10/2005 8:34:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
On of my instructors told our class of a guy who would fanatically use the slide stop on his glock to release the slide. Eventually he wore the notch in the slide to the point that it would not lock back.

It would still fire, of course. And that's the important part. But he had to have his slide notch recut.




The other thing too, and as I said earlier, the Glock wasn't made for that. Because of loose tolerances and flexing of the slide stop, releasing it manually doesn't have that positive feel or respond positively as it does on a 1911.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 8:59:08 PM EDT
Sounds like you learned a lesson the easy way. In my experience, all of the aftermarket crap for Glocks (and most other weapons) is for game, not for real life training/situations. The extended slide lock was produced for gamers and match types. Stock Glocks are best. It's easy to get pulled in to the gadget fray, but those that carry must resist.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 10:09:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:
Kinda sucks Glock does not make a "Extended Slide Catch" for the G36. But with a little mod you can make it work.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/hotrod9mm/G36-Slide-Release-mod-1a.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/hotrod9mm/G36-Slide-Stop-Mod-1a.jpg
Done it a few times.



That's great! Now I won't have to post a continuation of this post. Did you use a file? I figure a dremel might eat it too quickly. Hopefully I'll know sometime this week when I have time to screw with it.

Thanks for being the only one to post a useful reply.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 1:22:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 1:24:00 AM EDT by NickDrak]

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:
Kinda sucks Glock does not make a "Extended Slide Catch" for the G36. But with a little mod you can make it work.



What Kinda sucks is that people aren't trained correctly to NOT USE the Slide Stop as a RELEASE.

There is no need for that custom part because you shouldn't be dropping the slide with it in the first place.



He may come off a bit well....

But his is the only truly useful response to your initial question. There is a reason that Glock doesnt call it a "release". Use your hand to manipulate the slide. Do Not rely on tiny levers (extended or not, it is still a fine motor skill) to release your pistols slide into battery. Weapon manipulation is the most under-emphasized/un-trained skill especially when it comes to law enforcement training.

Messing with the slide catch or release, or whatever you would like to refer to it as, always causes more problems then the "extended slide release" are supposed to fix. Your case is a perfect example of this.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 1:29:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
Good question, because that stupid slide mounted safety creates problems with weapon manipulation.



...only for people with an IQ of 87
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:17:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 7:19:40 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:
Kinda sucks Glock does not make a "Extended Slide Catch" for the G36. But with a little mod you can make it work.



What Kinda sucks is that people aren't trained correctly to NOT USE the Slide Stop as a RELEASE.

There is no need for that custom part because you shouldn't be dropping the slide with it in the first place.



I know this subject has been beat to death, but it's really just a matter of how you trian.

Every one of the best shooters I have ever had the priviliage to shoot with uses the slide release method. I learned it from them and have been using this method ever since. Nobody is going to tell me the sling shot method is faster. It's just not the case.

I have a Glock manufactured extended slide release in my G19, and my G34 came with one stock.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 4:47:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 4:49:33 AM EDT by NickDrak]

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:
Kinda sucks Glock does not make a "Extended Slide Catch" for the G36. But with a little mod you can make it work.



What Kinda sucks is that people aren't trained correctly to NOT USE the Slide Stop as a RELEASE.

There is no need for that custom part because you shouldn't be dropping the slide with it in the first place.



I know this subject has been beat to death, but it's really just a matter of how you trian.

Every one of the best shooters I have ever had the priviliage to shoot with uses the slide release method. I learned it from them and have been using this method ever since. Nobody is going to tell me the sling shot method is faster. It's just not the case.

I have a Glock manufactured extended slide release in my G19, and my G34 came with one stock.



"Sling-shotting" is grasping the rear of the slide with your thumb and index finger, and pulling the slide to the rear. This method usually requires you to lower or elevate the pistol effectively removing the muzzle off of the target.

* Sling-shot = NO GOOD*

Grasp over the top of the slide while keeping your muzzle on target, and aggresively rack the slide to the rear. No one is suggesting that this method is "faster" then using the lever during a reload, but it is a more consistent,common movement when used for BOTH reloads and malfunction/stoppage clearing, and you reap the benefit of a common gross motor movement for both manipulations/skills.

The big issue with relying on the release lever during a stress-induced reload situation, is that it is a fine motor skill. It is a thoroughly research fact that one of the very first things to dissapear when humans are involved in violent confrontations, are their ability to perform "fine motor skills".

Using the method I described above for manipulating the slide of your pistol, is also common to the movement used to do a speed clear with the charging handle on the AR15.

Using the slide release lever may be the preferred "fastest" method for competition shooters, but may be a liability when you are relying on it ("a fine motor skill") during a violent life or death situation.

Both methods have merit for their intended purposes, but it is universially accepted that relying on fine motor skills during your firearm training is a terrible idea, with potentially fatal consequences.

Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:44:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 5:49:45 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By NickDrak:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:
Kinda sucks Glock does not make a "Extended Slide Catch" for the G36. But with a little mod you can make it work.



What Kinda sucks is that people aren't trained correctly to NOT USE the Slide Stop as a RELEASE.

There is no need for that custom part because you shouldn't be dropping the slide with it in the first place.



I know this subject has been beat to death, but it's really just a matter of how you trian.

Every one of the best shooters I have ever had the priviliage to shoot with uses the slide release method. I learned it from them and have been using this method ever since. Nobody is going to tell me the sling shot method is faster. It's just not the case.

I have a Glock manufactured extended slide release in my G19, and my G34 came with one stock.



"Sling-shotting" is grasping the rear of the slide with your thumb and index finger, and pulling the slide to the rear. This method usually requires you to lower or elevate the pistol effectively removing the muzzle off of the target.

* Sling-shot = NO GOOD*

Grasp over the top of the slide while keeping your muzzle on target, and aggresively rack the slide to the rear. No one is suggesting that this method is "faster" then using the lever during a reload, but it is a more consistent,common movement when used for BOTH reloads and malfunction/stoppage clearing, and you reap the benefit of a common gross motor movement for both manipulations/skills.

The big issue with relying on the release lever during a stress-induced reload situation, is that it is a fine motor skill. It is a thoroughly research fact that one of the very first things to dissapear when humans are involved in violent confrontations, are their ability to perform "fine motor skills".

Using the method I described above for manipulating the slide of your pistol, is also common to the movement used to do a speed clear with the charging handle on the AR15.

Using the slide release lever may be the preferred "fastest" method for competition shooters, but may be a liability when you are relying on it ("a fine motor skill") during a violent life or death situation.

Both methods have merit for their intended purposes, but it is universially accepted that relying on fine motor skills during your firearm training is a terrible idea, with potentially fatal consequences.






Thanks for the detailed explaination on reload/malfunction drills, but I'm well aware of the different techniques.

Trust me, so do the shooters I'm referencing. Only one of them is a "Competition shooter" (Past IDPA Champion) and he was also USMC "Special Operations Capable" during his military career. Two are veterans of Tier 1 military/LEO Special Operations units. One is a State Department employee and he is one of the best shooters I have ever come accross. I have the funny suspicion they might know a thing or two about combat handguns.

To quote them; "It's all in how you train"

I'm going to stick with my slide release method.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:46:41 AM EDT
thanks for sharing the info
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:57:05 AM EDT
my slide releaseses when i but in my mag
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:59:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:
Kinda sucks Glock does not make a "Extended Slide Catch" for the G36. But with a little mod you can make it work.



What Kinda sucks is that people aren't trained correctly to NOT USE the Slide Stop as a RELEASE.

There is no need for that custom part because you shouldn't be dropping the slide with it in the first place.



Exactly. This was REAL hard to get through my thick ass head... but I am finally getting it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:54:15 AM EDT
I recently got a 21 , and have been looking at add ons.
But , no.

I like to add doodads to my firearms, but my glock will stay stock.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:04:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AMZ:
glock will stay stock.



as they should
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:09:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 10:10:13 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By AMZ:
glock will stay stock.



as they should



No question about it. I would never use anything but a factory Glock part.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:10:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 10:16:39 AM EDT by phylodog]

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By NickDrak:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By HotRod9mm:
Kinda sucks Glock does not make a "Extended Slide Catch" for the G36. But with a little mod you can make it work.



What Kinda sucks is that people aren't trained correctly to NOT USE the Slide Stop as a RELEASE.

There is no need for that custom part because you shouldn't be dropping the slide with it in the first place.



I know this subject has been beat to death, but it's really just a matter of how you trian.

Every one of the best shooters I have ever had the priviliage to shoot with uses the slide release method. I learned it from them and have been using this method ever since. Nobody is going to tell me the sling shot method is faster. It's just not the case.

I have a Glock manufactured extended slide release in my G19, and my G34 came with one stock.



"Sling-shotting" is grasping the rear of the slide with your thumb and index finger, and pulling the slide to the rear. This method usually requires you to lower or elevate the pistol effectively removing the muzzle off of the target.

* Sling-shot = NO GOOD*

Grasp over the top of the slide while keeping your muzzle on target, and aggresively rack the slide to the rear. No one is suggesting that this method is "faster" then using the lever during a reload, but it is a more consistent,common movement when used for BOTH reloads and malfunction/stoppage clearing, and you reap the benefit of a common gross motor movement for both manipulations/skills.

The big issue with relying on the release lever during a stress-induced reload situation, is that it is a fine motor skill. It is a thoroughly research fact that one of the very first things to dissapear when humans are involved in violent confrontations, are their ability to perform "fine motor skills".

Using the method I described above for manipulating the slide of your pistol, is also common to the movement used to do a speed clear with the charging handle on the AR15.

Using the slide release lever may be the preferred "fastest" method for competition shooters, but may be a liability when you are relying on it ("a fine motor skill") during a violent life or death situation.

Both methods have merit for their intended purposes, but it is universially accepted that relying on fine motor skills during your firearm training is a terrible idea, with potentially fatal consequences.






Thanks for the detailed explaination on reload/malfunction drills, but I'm well aware of the different techniques.

Trust me, so do the shooters I'm referencing. Only one of them is a "Competition shooter" (Past IDPA Champion) and he was also USMC "Special Operations Capable" during his military career. Two are veterans of Tier 1 military/LEO Special Operations units. One is a State Department employee and he is one of the best shooters I have ever come accross. I have the funny suspicion they might know a thing or two about combat handguns.

To quote them; "It's all in how you train"

I'm going to stick with my slide release method.



I used to stick to the idea that using the slide stop to release the slide was a no-no. I trained (and still do) to reach over and grab a handful of the slide, pull it back and release it. I have been involved in one situation where my fine motor skills were affected and just feel more confident with this procedure. I train with plenty of guys who use the slide stop to release it and I no longer disagree with their choice. I do believe that the most important thing is make a choice and stick to it. If you train properly (a lot), you will be able to manipulate that slide stop when you need to. Since I have trained to do the other, I will stick to that. I now explain both to students and allow them to decide for themselves.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:33:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 10:51:36 AM EDT by NickDrak]

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:


Thanks for the detailed explaination on reload/malfunction drills, but I'm well aware of the different techniques.

Trust me, so do the shooters I'm referencing. Only one of them is a "Competition shooter" (Past IDPA Champion) and he was also USMC "Special Operations Capable" during his military career. Two are veterans of Tier 1 military/LEO Special Operations units. One is a State Department employee and he is one of the best shooters I have ever come accross. I have the funny suspicion they might know a thing or two about combat handguns.

To quote them; "It's all in how you train"

I'm going to stick with my slide release method.



It's unfortunate that you feel I'm trying to talk down to you and others that rely on the slide release lever. I simply offered the info for others that may not know the different techniques in hopes that they would make their minds up for themselves, and apply it by going out and training with the different techniques to find out which works for them. As you related, its is all in how you train, but I still feel relying on fine motor skills in a gunfight, no matter how often you train the techniques, is a bad idea.

My concern is for the shooter who feels that adding extended gadgets to their weapons will get them through the fight instead of relying on trigger time and some quality hands-on instruction.
I think the original question posted by bcw107 is a perfect example of this. Quoting bcw107: "I wear the 36 often because I work plainclothes, but dont shoot it as much simply because it's not as "fun".

LE firearms training is gernerally some of the worst/most useless training available, some depts. are more progressive then others, but for example, here in IL. the two departments that I worked for rely on the old state mandated qualification course once a year for "training" their officers. You know, the ol' "Fire two rounds and reholster, and if you have a malfunction, keep the weapon pointed downrange and raise your support hand and a instructor will come and assist you" crap. This in effect is training the officers to die in a shoot-out. If you want to become truly proficient with a firearm, you need to seek out the best available training and usually pay for it out of your own pocket.

I would argue that using the same gross movement for as many different skills/weapon manipulations as possible, is a positive benefit that outweighs the speed advantage gained by relying on the slide release lever.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:17:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By markm:
What Kinda sucks is that people aren't trained correctly to NOT USE the Slide Stop as a RELEASE.

There is no need for that custom part because you shouldn't be dropping the slide with it in the first place
.[/
quote]

BINGO! That is what I was going to say.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:27:07 AM EDT
NickDrak, you sound like you have trained at Gunsite.

That is a good thing.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 11:04:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NickDrak:

It's unfortunate that you feel I'm trying to talk down to you and others that rely on the slide release lever. I simply offered the info for others that may not know the different techniques in hopes that they would make their minds up for themselves, and apply it by going out and training with the different techniques to find out which works for them. As you related, its is all in how you train, but I still feel relying on fine motor skills in a gunfight, no matter how often you train the techniques, is a bad idea.

My concern is for the shooter who feels that adding extended gadgets to their weapons will get them through the fight instead of relying on trigger time and some quality hands-on instruction.
I think the original question posted by bcw107 is a perfect example of this. Quoting bcw107: "I wear the 36 often because I work plainclothes, but dont shoot it as much simply because it's not as "fun".

LE firearms training is gernerally some of the worst/most useless training available, some depts. are more progressive then others, but for example, here in IL. the two departments that I worked for rely on the old state mandated qualification course once a year for "training" their officers. You know, the ol' "Fire two rounds and reholster, and if you have a malfunction, keep the weapon pointed downrange and raise your support hand and a instructor will come and assist you" crap. This in effect is training the officers to die in a shoot-out. If you want to become truly proficient with a firearm, you need to seek out the best available training and usually pay for it out of your own pocket.

I would argue that using the same gross movement for as many different skills/weapon manipulations as possible, is a positive benefit that outweighs the speed advantage gained by relying on the slide release lever.



A few quick things. First, as the department rangemaster and firearms instructor I should never have carried the G36 without testfiring it after making the modification. Second, I absolutely agree with everything you have stated. I do train our staff to use their gross motor skills in order to ensure that when the SHTF, they are not fumbling around. As you well know with your experience, firearms training for police is bare minimum, no fault of mine. Time and money are obviously to two largest constraints to police firearms training. I try to conduct our qualifications as closely to real as possible. If an officer fumbles and ejects a round onto the floor, he loses it. He doesn't cycle the weapon and snaps on a empty chamber, time still ticks. You have a malfunction, as long as it is not catastrophic, it's still your malfuction-deal with it. You shoot control heads or target stands and damage equipment, you're off the range. Training is different. I try to have a "back to basics" class at least twice a year and open range days prior to qualifications (it's all I'm allowed). I'm now offering a "off-duty/back-up weapon" class. Two different levels of rifle classes-a basic and a more advanced. We also have a class exclusively for women. I constantly encourage our staff to take advanced handgunning classes.

I'm not without fault obviously. I had no question to ask in this post. I was making a point: complacency and stupidity on my part could have gotten myself or someone else killed. Several of the people who replied to this post chant "stock Glock, stock Glock". But I know that's bullshit because almost every post in this forum begins with "What Glock should I get" or "What kind of modifications..." and if Glock was so perfect from the box, we wouldn't need a forum to talk about them so why are you here? Damn right the G36 isn't as fun as my G21. I still shoot my G36 more in a month than most officers will shoot their weapon in their lifetime. Trust, me it's very relative.

Some of you guys need to seriously S2 and read the posts in entirety. I don't need to be told I did something stupid when I made it plain that I had done something dumb. Here's the whole point. You make a modification to any weapon, make sure the effing thing works before you hang your life on it. NickDrak is absolutely correct. Thank you for the reply.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 12:42:38 PM EDT
And as a Glock Armorer, I would never install a non Glock part on a duty weapon. Even if that duty weapon was a for a non-uniform officer. Glocks run best when stock, and changes invite problems.

Most departments I know require duty guns to remain stock. There is to much liability with officers changing things around and using sub-standard parts. And why most of them require someone who knows what they're doing to inspect the guns and make any necessary changes.

Now you know why.

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 1:06:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 2:14:56 PM EDT by NickDrak]
bcw107: Sure wish we had a rangemaster like you....

Our rangemaster is only concerned about overtime. Any time one of the other instructors sets-up a open range day, he goes and cries to our chief about how he's not respected as the rangemaster and should be in charge of all range days, and for some reason the chief caters to him.

In six years with my dept. I have not been allowed to "qualify" with a off-duty weapon because the rangemaster refuses to do so.

I am in the process of filing a union grievance for failure to train, and am trying to get examples of other (more progressive) departments training programs to file with the grievance to give them an idea of what we should be doing. Any additional ideas would be appreciated. You can email me with any suggestions at ndrak@comcast.net
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:01:00 PM EDT
NickDrak. Email inbound. I'll talk to you some more next week.
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