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Posted: 11/4/2019 12:33:53 PM EDT
[#1]
ok so you feel if I just used the breach block like your 17L above, thread in my blank and set it with acraglass and pin it, then I can profile, cut to length/thread the blank to work would be a better route? Sure sounds a hell of alot easier!
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Posted: 11/4/2019 12:36:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ok so you feel if I just used the breach block like your 17L above, thread in my blank and set it with acraglass and pin it, then I can profile, cut to length/thread the blank to work would be a better route? Sure sounds a hell of alot easier! |
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Posted: 11/4/2019 12:44:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely. You could probably get away with just a press fit and pin.  Any reason you went 1/2x36 vs 1/2x28?
Also are these the mags you guys are running? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006227622?pid=932856 |
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Posted: 11/4/2019 12:55:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the pressures I plan on running i'll stick with threading Any reason you went 1/2x36 vs 1/2x28?
Also are these the mags you guys are running? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006227622?pid=932856 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely. You could probably get away with just a press fit and pin. Any reason you went 1/2x36 vs 1/2x28?
Also are these the mags you guys are running? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006227622?pid=932856 |
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Posted: 11/4/2019 1:17:16 PM EDT
[#5]
well here goes nothing. Ordered a mag and the rest of the bits to finish the p80. That brings the tally up to $388 for the complete gun less sights. (granted not accounting for the 22 blank which I have on hand, nor possible springs needed to tune it)
Josh did you happen to check out my posts last page? not sure if they'll be any help in your endevor So playing with QL looks meh with a 4" barrel 45 xtp @ 1860, 40jhp @ 1950 those 34gr fbhp @ 2050 and 33gr jhp @ 2100 now bump up the pressure to 52k and you pick up a solid 100 ft/sec. Going to a 5.2" barrel (threaded 17/34 length) boosts them 200 ft/sec @ 52k |
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Posted: 11/4/2019 6:44:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HK_DUDE, I like the work you have done with your TCM 9R build. I too have been down this road, for almost 2 years. I have both the 9R and standard TCM in pistols, and also an AR Pistol chambered in the 22 TCM running on a DI pistol gas system. I built the ARP to run on factory ammo, but prefer to run my own reloads. I originally milled out a dedicated colt 9mm AR lower to accept PPS43 mags http://blackholeweaponry.proboards.com/thread/2697/22-tcm, but have since switched to a standard lower due to the introduction of the EndoMags(CMMG Version). I must say that these EndoMags(CMMG Version) work well for both the 9R and standard TCM. I learned that the standard TCM ammo will shoot out of the 9R barrel for the Glocks, but as you know the issue lies with the magazine, which leads me to my next point (which seems to have been addressed in this thread), find a magazine that will accept standard TCM ammo while also fitting within the Glock 9mm grip. This is the point I got to with the 9R after I couldn't find any bullets to reload with, and when I switched to the 1911 variant so I could run the same reloads through a handgun and ARP. Now for the ARP and the EndoMags, what I found with these was that the feed ramp angle was too steep, which caused the "nose up" jams within the barrel extension due to the travel distance. I fixed this by decreasing the angle with a file. The next mod is to remove the rear round support (pops in and out) of the EndoMag(CMMG Version) to allow the standard TCM round to fit. To also note, the 9R feeds perfectly when the EndoMag is in it's "9mm" variant. There is a ton more information, but I thought this would be enough to wet the whistles of those who are interested. Chris https://images2.imgbox.com/49/28/5Ci5dG6S_o.png" target="_blank">https://images2.imgbox.com/49/28/5Ci5dG6S_o.png Would you be so kind as to post a picture of the feed ramp on your modded mag. I removed the rear support and took off a decent amount off the feed ramp on mine this afternoon and no joy. still getting nose up failures. Thanks, George |
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Posted: 11/9/2019 6:13:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Finally have all the parts in to proceed with the build. will build it as a 9mm, work out any bugs their may be, machine the slide, then lastly work on the 22 caliber cat. :)
Ready to be test fired. 
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Posted: 11/16/2019 9:44:29 PM EDT
[#8]
9R OAL w/ 34.5grn hardcast powder coated - 5" bbl - 2200+fps:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Reloading-experiments-you-haven-t-seen-yet-/42-504498/?r=5204289&page=1&anc=5204289#i5204243 |
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Posted: 11/16/2019 10:05:36 PM EDT
[#9]
@backbencher
Are you still trying to find your magical 2200 ft/sec glock 26 sized weapon 
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Posted: 11/16/2019 10:43:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Yup. May have to have a long bbl, though. But it might could use standard mags. Don't know if I can afford a Fold AR to go w/ it, though. Can I put enough weight in a SUB-2000 bolt to run .22 TCM?
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Posted: 11/16/2019 11:13:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. May have to have a long bbl, though. But it might could use standard mags. Don't know if I can afford a Fold AR to go w/ it, though. Can I put enough weight in a SUB-2000 bolt to run .22 TCM? As for the sub2k i'll have to find my bolt thrust calculations. I want to say you may be fine as bullet mass tends to need more weight than velocity. However a heavier spring may be in order to keep it locked up longer to prevent case stretch like the FN 5.7 ETA. Found it so using a 40gr at 3000 ft/sec (being optimistic from the 16" barrel) to keep bolt velocity below 4m/s bolt mass needs to be 1.3 lbs. now for reference to get the same bolt velocity with 9mm assuming a 124gr @ 1350 ft/sec you need 1.8lbs of bolt mass. |
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Posted: 11/16/2019 11:30:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure if you read my updates up a few posts but I plan on trying my cat in the p80 g26 I just built. Leaning towards a 4"-4.25" barrel but doing a over the barrel compensator so over all length should be somewhere between a 19 and 17 slide. Have to hunt down another donor barrel however. The $20 BCA barrel was a bust. It won't cycle smooth. tried fixing it but made it worse so in the garbage it goes. I think the timing in the lugs were messed up. As for the sub2k i'll have to find my bolt thrust calculations. I want to say you may be fine as bullet mass tends to need more weight than velocity. However a heavier spring may be in order to keep it locked up longer to prevent case stretch like the FN 5.7 ETA. Found it so using a 40gr at 3000 ft/sec (being optimistic from the 16" barrel) to keep bolt velocity below 4m/s bolt mass needs to be 1.3 lbs. now for reference to get the same bolt velocity with 9mm assuming a 124gr @ 1350 ft/sec you need 1.8lbs of bolt mass. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yup. May have to have a long bbl, though. But it might could use standard mags. Don't know if I can afford a Fold AR to go w/ it, though. Can I put enough weight in a SUB-2000 bolt to run .22 TCM? As for the sub2k i'll have to find my bolt thrust calculations. I want to say you may be fine as bullet mass tends to need more weight than velocity. However a heavier spring may be in order to keep it locked up longer to prevent case stretch like the FN 5.7 ETA. Found it so using a 40gr at 3000 ft/sec (being optimistic from the 16" barrel) to keep bolt velocity below 4m/s bolt mass needs to be 1.3 lbs. now for reference to get the same bolt velocity with 9mm assuming a 124gr @ 1350 ft/sec you need 1.8lbs of bolt mass. |
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Posted: 11/16/2019 11:56:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is your bolt thrust calculator accounting for overbore as well?
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Posted: 11/17/2019 1:36:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is your bolt thrust calculator accounting for overbore as well? |
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Posted: 11/17/2019 4:33:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Surely the .22 TCM's not overbore? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Is your bolt thrust calculator accounting for overbore as well? |
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Posted: 11/17/2019 8:57:55 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Surely it is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Is your bolt thrust calculator accounting for overbore as well? |
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Posted: 11/17/2019 10:13:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're gonna have to break it down for me, Josh. We're talking about firing it out of a 16" bbl here - if .22 TCM is overbore, so is every .22 centerfire cartridge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Is your bolt thrust calculator accounting for overbore as well? |
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Posted: 11/17/2019 10:48:53 AM EDT
[#18]
The 5.7x28mm has a case coating b/c it's running at high pressures in a blowback action, and it's a long ass case that will get the base ripped off otherwise, not b/c it's overbore.
.223 isn't regarded as a overbore - you're comparing .22 TCM to pistol rounds, when it's running @ rifle velocities. I don't know that .22 TCM can be run in a practical blowback action - but calling it overbore doesn't make much sense. Does it have higher bolt thrust than 9x19mm? Clearly. Does it have less than .223? Clearly. |
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Posted: 11/17/2019 10:51:17 AM EDT
[#19]
I'm comparing it to pistol rounds because it's being run in pistol actions. Yes it's overbore value is low compared to rifle rounds, but it isn't a rifle round.
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Posted: 11/17/2019 11:03:57 AM EDT
[#20]
Perhaps it would be more helpful to speak of it as being run in short-recoil, blowback, and gas-operated actions, rather than trying to define it by a specific platform. I'm interested in running it in a short-recoil pistol - but only if I can run it in a rifle platform as well - a folding rifle platform, whether blowback or gas operated.
Long, powerful bottleneck cartridges have run fine in short-recoil actions before. .30-06 and 7x57mm Mauser worked just fine in the short-recoil Johnson 1941. The .22 TCM is a pipsqueak compared to those. |
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Posted: 11/17/2019 11:29:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps it would be more helpful to speak of it as being run in short-recoil, blowback, and gas-operated actions, rather than trying to define it by a specific platform. I'm interested in running it in a short-recoil pistol - but only if I can run it in a rifle platform as well - a folding rifle platform, whether blowback or gas operated. Long, powerful bottleneck cartridges have run fine in short-recoil actions before. .30-06 and 7x57mm Mauser worked just fine in the short-recoil Johnson 1941. The .22 TCM is a pipsqueak compared to those. |
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Posted: 11/17/2019 11:44:03 AM EDT
[#22]
@backbencher, if all you want is 2,200fps out of a pistol you could do it with 9mm. Lehigh 65gr bullets loaded to 9mm Major would probably get you there. There were some 40-50gr aluminum bullets available in the past. Can't seem to find them now though. If you wanted to step up to 9x25 Dillon you could probably exceed 2,200fps quite easily.
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Posted: 11/17/2019 12:26:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @backbencher, if all you want is 2,200fps out of a pistol you could do it with 9mm. Lehigh 65gr bullets loaded to 9mm Major would probably get you there. There were some 40-50gr aluminum bullets available in the past. Can't seem to find them now though. If you wanted to step up to 9x25 Dillon you could probably exceed 2,200fps quite easily. My short list of cartridges that would hit 2100 fps out of a concealable pistol, and run in a folding rifle from the same magazines: .22 TCM 9R - looking good out of a 5" bbl - how short can we go? .22 TCM - magazine difficulties 5.7x28mm - already there, plug & play into a Fold AR w/ the CMMG delayed blowback bolt, but service pistol size 5.7mm Johnson - on the long side, would chamber in a AutoMag 3 .224 BOZ - known difficulties .256 Win Mag - custom AutoMag 3 again, also runs from revolvers 7.5mm Czech monster 9x19mm w/ light for caliber bullets, only ones on the market at 50 grn are frangible .357 SIG, same issue as 9x19mm 9x25 Dillon - should be good to go, forces into a Fold AR & Circle 10 lower Necked down .45 GAP/10x25mm/.40 S&W/.38 Super/9x19mm to .30"/6.5mm/6mm/.22"/.17"? The biggest issue for me on that list is not getting to the minimum velocity, not finding a pistol that can be chambered for it, not finding a magazine - but the availability of magazine wells, and the expense of the magazine well & the rifle action on top. Say we neck down .38 Super to 6mm, hit 2200 fps from a 3.5" bbl - what magazine am I going to use? And once I get that into a pistol, how do I get it into a rifle? So the Liberty ammo, if the terminal ballistics are as advertised (I doubt it), would be ideal by putting me into a huge magazine infrastructure - Glock, SIG, Beretta mags. Is there a light for caliber 9mm mold I could use? Could I swage 50 grn 9mm FMJs? |
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Posted: 11/17/2019 12:32:39 PM EDT
[#24]
You could probably turn aluminum 9mm bullets. As for mag options for a 6/.38, STI. Nordic makes an STI compatible AR magwell.
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Posted: 11/17/2019 12:55:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could probably turn aluminum 9mm bullets. As for mag options for a 6/.38, STI. Nordic makes an STI compatible AR magwell. Nordic, STI, and Fold AR are the expensive option, but good to know it's there. Will the Nordic lock up a .22 TCM double stack? Buy STI, run .224 BOZ, send it in under warranty w/ the original bbl periodically?
A really neat gas operated combo might be 6mm/.357 SIG at .45 ACP/10x25mm Norma OAL. But let's see how your .22 TCM mag experiments turn out, I think y'all are doing great things here and .22 TCM has lots of potential in handguns and PDWs. |
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Posted: 11/17/2019 1:25:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we use aluminum bullets in pistols still, or does that fall afoul of the "armor piercing" ban? Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we use aluminum bullets in pistols still, or does that fall afoul of the "armor piercing" ban? The GCA defines "armor piercing ammunition" as:
"(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile." |
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Posted: 11/17/2019 1:35:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Sweet. Thanks much.
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Posted: 12/17/2019 10:37:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Bump to keep it out of the archives.
Interesting note guys I bought the gen 2 MEAN Endomags and they have extended feed lips and it feeds my wildcat like a charm (no more tip ups) Very similar to the 22 tcm just .100" longer 
Can you say companion gun
On a side note my "cheap" donor barrel was a flop. the locking lugs aren't right and you cant even cycle the slide. Going to prowell the EE to find another one day. so the .935" 22 Mamba is postponed till then. |
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Posted: 12/25/2019 2:11:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I plan to try out the 9x19mm 50 grn Liberty ammo in the SUB-2000 when I get back. Unfortunately it's frangible, so I'll need to do chronograph tests, then ballistic gel. 150s or 147s in the Poly 80-26, maybe 50s in the SUB-2000, w/ some soft of mix across spare mags. Not ideal, but if 50 grn Liberty will perform properly out of a 16" bbl, it would be better than a subsonic hollowpoint. My short list of cartridges that would hit 2100 fps out of a concealable pistol, and run in a folding rifle from the same magazines: .22 TCM 9R - looking good out of a 5" bbl - how short can we go? .22 TCM - magazine difficulties 5.7x28mm - already there, plug & play into a Fold AR w/ the CMMG delayed blowback bolt, but service pistol size 5.7mm Johnson - on the long side, would chamber in a AutoMag 3 .224 BOZ - known difficulties .256 Win Mag - custom AutoMag 3 again, also runs from revolvers 7.5mm Czech monster 9x19mm w/ light for caliber bullets, only ones on the market at 50 grn are frangible .357 SIG, same issue as 9x19mm 9x25 Dillon - should be good to go, forces into a Fold AR & Circle 10 lower Necked down .45 GAP/10x25mm/.40 S&W/.38 Super/9x19mm to .30"/6.5mm/6mm/.22"/.17"? The biggest issue for me on that list is not getting to the minimum velocity, not finding a pistol that can be chambered for it, not finding a magazine - but the availability of magazine wells, and the expense of the magazine well & the rifle action on top. Say we neck down .38 Super to 6mm, hit 2200 fps from a 3.5" bbl - what magazine am I going to use? And once I get that into a pistol, how do I get it into a rifle? So the Liberty ammo, if the terminal ballistics are as advertised (I doubt it), would be ideal by putting me into a huge magazine infrastructure - Glock, SIG, Beretta mags. Is there a light for caliber 9mm mold I could use? Could I swage 50 grn 9mm FMJs? |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 3:09:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Ok guys. I have finally acquired a barrel to go under the knife. It's not for my 26 like I had hoped for but guess it would be a better comparison to run it in the 34 as the FN 5.7 and Ruger 57 both sport 5" barrels.
Anywho I would like for you guys to decide on a case length for me. Doing .935" is the longest I can go and it leaves me to use 22 TCM/ Bee style bullets (ie. short and rounded) but not the stupid short like the 9r bullet. Now I do have that EAA 38 super mag to run longer if I chose to go that route, but I would like this to be something anyone could run without mods. My reamer cuts a .175" neck I may trim necks .025" shorter to maximize case capacity as that's the neck length that the .224 BOZ used. I was playing around with QL and case capacity seems to have less influence on velocity than case length does. For example if I went down to a .885" case I estimated a loss of ~2gr case capacity. Estimated velocity actually went up a hair but the powders for max velocity also went a touch faster (ie. from lil gun down to enforcer, 2400) Going to a .885" case would allow for some of the smaller spitzer's like FBHP bullets in the 30-45gr realm as well as hornet style bullets. I noticed that speer is about to release a 40gr GDHP which could be interesting and it looks to be along the same ogive as a hornet style bullet. So what is it? .885" for tiny spitzers which may or may not give up some speed. or .935" and have a more limited bullet selection? Thanks, George |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 3:35:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok guys. I have finally acquired a barrel to go under the knife. It's not for my 26 like I had hoped for but guess it would be a better comparison to run it in the 34 as the FN 5.7 and Ruger 57 both sport 5" barrels. Anywho I would like for you guys to decide on a case length for me. Doing .935" is the longest I can go and it leaves me to use 22 TCM/ Bee style bullets (ie. short and rounded) but not the stupid short like the 9r bullet. Now I do have that EAA 38 super mag to run longer if I chose to go that route, but I would like this to be something anyone could run without mods. My reamer cuts a .175" neck I may trim necks .025" shorter to maximize case capacity as that's the neck length that the .224 BOZ used. I was playing around with QL and case capacity seems to have less influence on velocity than case length does. For example if I went down to a .885" case I estimated a loss of ~2gr case capacity. Estimated velocity actually went up a hair but the powders for max velocity also went a touch faster (ie. from lil gun down to enforcer, 2400) Going to a .885" case would allow for some of the smaller spitzer's like FBHP bullets in the 30-45gr realm as well as hornet style bullets. I noticed that speer is about to release a 40gr GDHP which could be interesting and it looks to be along the same ogive as a hornet style bullet. So what is it? .885" for tiny spitzers which may or may not give up some speed. or .935" and have a more limited bullet selection? Thanks, George |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 5:05:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not just stick with 22TCM case dimensions if you are loading to that OAL? So by shortening it one can either get back the 22tcm style bullets (short and stubby) or one can shorten it more and gain spitzer style bullets (think FN 5.7 style bullets) and thats where i'm trying to seek advice. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 9:14:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 22 TCM was designed for a 45 acp sized magazine (so COAL of 1.275") 9mm mags are a little under .100" shorter. The 22 TCM 9r is nothing more than a super short bullet in a standard .22 TCM case. but that gives you exactly 1 bullet option to chose from. So by shortening it one can either get back the 22tcm style bullets (short and stubby) or one can shorten it more and gain spitzer style bullets (think FN 5.7 style bullets) and thats where i'm trying to seek advice. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 4:21:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So why aren't we building a 22 TCM glock out of a glock 21/41? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The 22 TCM was designed for a 45 acp sized magazine (so COAL of 1.275") 9mm mags are a little under .100" shorter. The 22 TCM 9r is nothing more than a super short bullet in a standard .22 TCM case. but that gives you exactly 1 bullet option to chose from. So by shortening it one can either get back the 22tcm style bullets (short and stubby) or one can shorten it more and gain spitzer style bullets (think FN 5.7 style bullets) and thats where i'm trying to seek advice. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 5:02:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Wouldn't it be nice to have a pistol slide with replaceable breech face?
A manufacturer could just about use the same slide all across the board. Just put in which ever breech face is needed. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 5:57:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wouldn't it be nice to have a pistol slide with replaceable breech face? A manufacturer could just about use the same slide all across the board. Just put in which ever breech face is needed. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 12:08:17 AM EDT
[#37]
So I played with my stubby forming die I made.
.865" case with a 40gr spitzer seated 1.165" Left .150" neck length as formed it came in at a whopping 11gr H2o (the .935" case with a .175" neck measured 14.5gr) Brass is super thick down here so you can see the neck shifted a touch and the bullet started swaging into the bullet seating die so I'll make another and ream the neck An interesting discovery in QL shows only a loss of 40 ft/sec but powder burn has cleaned up into the mid 90's compared to 70-80% of the 14.5gr case (5" barrel values) as mentioned earlier burn rates also shifted to faster burners with power pistol and enforcer being the front runners. QL predicts 2060 with a 34gr dogtown bullet, 1925 ft/sec with a 40gr armscor jhp and just a few ft/sec less for the 40gr sp pictured. These are 5" barrel 42.5K psi figures (equivalent to 9mm +p+) Stepping up to 45k psi boosts those number 40-60 ft/sec favoring the 34gr into the 2115 range. and 50k get the 34gr to 2200!!! now i'm not sure I feel comfortable going to 50k and like mentioned the peening may become an issue at said pressures. That being said i'm swaying towards the shorter case as it stands...any more input/suggestions? |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 12:27:55 AM EDT
[#38]
Thank you.
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Posted: 1/18/2020 12:25:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Do any of you guys happen to know if there is a purpose to the tapered machining on the barrels? between the muzzle and breach face. I know my buddies armscor 1911 barrel had the same.
If one of you who have the conversion barrel could rack the slide to see if it possibly changes the feed angle or something it would be appreciated. |
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Posted: 1/18/2020 12:35:19 PM EDT
[#40]
Weight reduction.
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Posted: 1/18/2020 6:41:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Weight reduction. |
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Posted: 1/23/2020 12:56:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I played with my stubby forming die I made. https://i.imgur.com/vrVDXrtl.jpg .865" case with a 40gr spitzer seated 1.165" Left .150" neck length as formed it came in at a whopping 11gr H2o (the .935" case with a .175" neck measured 14.5gr) Brass is super thick down here so you can see the neck shifted a touch and the bullet started swaging into the bullet seating die so I'll make another and ream the neck An interesting discovery in QL shows only a loss of 40 ft/sec but powder burn has cleaned up into the mid 90's compared to 70-80% of the 14.5gr case (5" barrel values) as mentioned earlier burn rates also shifted to faster burners with power pistol and enforcer being the front runners. QL predicts 2060 with a 34gr dogtown bullet, 1925 ft/sec with a 40gr armscor jhp and just a few ft/sec less for the 40gr sp pictured. These are 5" barrel 42.5K psi figures (equivalent to 9mm +p+) Stepping up to 45k psi boosts those number 40-60 ft/sec favoring the 34gr into the 2115 range. and 50k get the 34gr to 2200!!! now i'm not sure I feel comfortable going to 50k and like mentioned the peening may become an issue at said pressures. That being said i'm swaying towards the shorter case as it stands...any more input/suggestions? I still want to do a 20 caliber variant nothing but necking down 22 TCM and running a long projo in a fast twist barrel. Would look like:  Berger dropped the 55 though so they have stolen my dreams. 
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Posted: 1/24/2020 12:54:35 AM EDT
[#43]
@SpacemanSpiff
agreed it's extra work but not to bad with the jig I made. 
I cut off the necks and ream in 1 setup per case. the case forming is done in 2 dies. really not too bad. I assume I could do it in 1 die and trim if I used 22 tcm brass. You might get a kick out of this. 
middle is a 90 gr smk seated just like your picture (bottom of bearing surface at end of neck) in my 22 Mamba Also did a 105gr RDF (6mm) in a necked up case
Almost positive I couldn't get away with that in the 22 Mamba with the current throat, but If I used my 24 Mamba (same design philosophy as the 22M but 6mm and full 1.75" case throated for 105's) reamer to cut the neck/throat and the 22 mamba with the 6mm pilot to cut the body I could get away with the pictured length in the 6mm variant. |
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Posted: 1/24/2020 1:17:55 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@SpacemanSpiff agreed it's extra work but not to bad with the jig I made. https://i.imgur.com/oi77GVgl.jpg I cut off the necks and ream in 1 setup per case. the case forming is done in 2 dies. really not too bad. I assume I could do it in 1 die and trim if I used 22 tcm brass. You might get a kick out of this. https://i.imgur.com/sTz5rHhl.jpg middle is a 90 gr smk seated just like your picture (bottom of bearing surface at end of neck) in my 22 Mamba Also did a 105gr RDF (6mm) in a necked up case
https://i.imgur.com/JrmBMPyl.jpg Almost positive I couldn't get away with that in the 22 Mamba with the current throat, but If I used my 24 Mamba (same design philosophy as the 22M but 6mm and full 1.75" case throated for 105's) reamer to cut the neck/throat and the 22 mamba with the 6mm pilot to cut the body I could get away with the pictured length in the 6mm variant. I really wish there was a magazine option for .223 base diameter cats in the 1.5" to 1.8" OAL range. It would make a market for true PDW type semis rather than "PDW"s that use either pistol cartridges or full size 5.56 NATO. I should have a 22 TCM in a Micro Roni chassis running soon so that will hopefully fill the niche for now at least, assuming the accuracy is not horrible. |
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Posted: 1/24/2020 1:51:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very very cool stuff. I really wish there was a magazine option for .223 base diameter cats in the 1.5" to 1.8" OAL range. It would make a market for true PDW type semis rather than "PDW"s that use either pistol cartridges or full size 5.56 NATO. I should have a 22 TCM in a Micro Roni chassis running soon so that will hopefully fill the niche for now at least, assuming the accuracy is not horrible. If it does work i'd like to see if MEAN would be interested in altering their design and producing them, but who knows. If not maybe i'll look into getting a 3d printer and making my own. with revisions to accept at least 1.75" COAL. With the popularity of the MICRO pistols and even the 5.7x28 having a resurgence I don't see why there isn't an option already. my 5" wildcat outperforms a 7.5" 5.56 with less blast and fireball. Only thing it struggles is driving bullet's over ~53gr. velocity divebombs fast. even the 53gr is 300 ft/sec behind 40's @ 5". But it makes up for it in BC in my opinion. @SpacemanSpiff Out of curiosity what is your intended goal for a small capacity heavy bullet cartridge? PDW, long barrel low noise, ???? I have a similar crazy want myself. I have a 17 cal reamer of the same case dimensions that I want to try and make a swaging die for converting 32gr 20 cal hpfb's into high BC 17 caliber hpbt's. I found a 1:8 twist 17 cal barrel to experiment with if I ever get around to it. Lot's of flavors out there to try
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Posted: 1/24/2020 3:43:40 PM EDT
[#46]
@SpacemanSpiff
Forgot to mention Berger still does seasonal runs on the 55gr Berger exclusively through grafs https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/797 Currently in stock so squirrel them away if you really want them. Ps. I've heard tcm brass doesnt fair well at rifle pressures so something to consider before jumping in head first. |
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Posted: 1/25/2020 8:16:54 PM EDT
[#47]
So I decided to move forward with the .860" case.
Brass forming takes 4 steps (not including normal case prep ie. champfer/debur, running a neck mandrel to finish it) 1. I push the shoulder back 80% of the way with a die I made with the chamber reamer 2. Final size the case with the short die I made with my die reamer 3. I grab a case, drop it into the jig I made let the lathe spin it on for me then part the neck with a .060" parting tool I ground 4. I ream the necks with a .221" reamer to remove excess material (it's quite a bit!!!) Repeatability was less than .001" so very impressed with that. I made 50 cases start to finish in about an hour. 
The lathe operations take ~30 sec a case including inserting and removing. Made a video if interested. https://imgur.com/d2ZLDjp 
I got some midway dogtown 34gr fbhp's in and they fit like a dream! 
Comparison's L-R: 5.7x28, .935" case w/40gr jhp, .860" case w/34gr fbhp, .865" case w/40gr sp, 22 TCM case I plan on making a case gauge, and headspace gauge later this evening/tomorrow then maybe start on the barrel
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Posted: 1/25/2020 8:54:33 PM EDT
[#48]
34 grn will hopefully get us where we need to be. Quickload is at the house waiting.
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Posted: 1/25/2020 9:00:46 PM EDT
[#49]
Cartridge
: .22 Mamba short Bullet : .224, 34, Dogtown FBHP Useable Case Capaci: 8.807 grain H2O = 0.572 cm³ Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.165 inch = 29.59 mm Barrel Length : 5.2 inch = 132.1 mm Powder : Alliant POWER PISTOL Charge Ft/sec PSI 5.90gr 2107 43276 6.02gr 2145 45339 6.14gr 2182 47485 6.25gr 2219 49715 6.37gr 2257 52035 6.49gr 2293 54446 I don't know whats going on with the format. being stupid! and with a G26 2000 ft/sec @ 52k psi 
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Posted: 1/25/2020 9:09:53 PM EDT
[#50]
I'd totally rock an Officer's 1911 w/ a red dot and a long bbl sticking out as long as I can figger how to get it into a SUB-2000 or a Fold AR.
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