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Posted: 11/15/2003 8:16:08 AM EDT
If the print of your gun shows through your clothes, like a shirt thats draped over it, is this classed as displaying your gun. A police officer gave my friend a hard time about this last week. He said he could be arrested for displaying, even though you couldnt see the gun itself.Any one had this senario?
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 11:18:42 PM EDT
This can be one of those gray areas with a lot of hair splitting, you might want to try the 'legal issues' forum to find out if someone has a specific line on the laws of where you live.

Other than that, from what you describe, sounds like your friend was well within the law.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 5:04:12 AM EDT
Every state has its own guidlines covering this issue. Allowing your pistol to "Print" is something that can get you is some trouble in one place but be just fine in others. As Raulin said, you can try the legal forums or go to the hometown forums and check with other FL residents about the local rules.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 7:07:43 AM EDT
a good argument for this would be,
"so, if i got a hard-on, i would be arrested for indecent exposure?"
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 7:19:51 AM EDT
I found that I was printing once. Several people noticed the outline of my S&W M-19 in its Uncle Mike's Holster. Still not sure how they saw it though.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 7:27:31 AM EDT
Florida Statutes "Definitions"


2) "Concealed firearm" means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 7:50:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sig_230:
I found that I was printing once. Several people noticed the outline of my S&W M-19 in its Uncle Mike's Holster. Still not sure how they saw it though.



Now that's funny.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 1:00:44 PM EDT
Printing in Texas is the same a failure to conceal in the eyes of the law. In a nutshell, if the average Joe can tell you are packin', you are in trouble in Tex.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:32:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By simonsay:
Printing in Texas is the same a failure to conceal in the eyes of the law. In a nutshell, if the average Joe can tell you are packin', you are in trouble in Tex.



By the letter of the law. Yes. However, law enforcement in most of Texas have a "don't be stupid" attitude toward the above.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 12:57:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2003 12:59:09 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
They can "tell" you are packing, or guessing that you are packing?

How do they know it's not a cell phone or pager?

I think *most* of the "printing" issue is total BS

I'd be half tempted to pull my shirt out and switch to Open Carry and ask if they are happy now.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 9:27:11 PM EDT
If your printing is unintentual, that's where I think you enter a lot of legal grey area. I was just looking at the original post and my reply; it is my assumption that the guy wasn't printing intentially.
Is it your responsibility to be constantly mindfull of this issue? You bet your CCW arse! But then again we're all human.
The flip side is someone acting outright irresponsibly in terms of visibility and being confronted by a LEO. Of course they are going to claim that it wasn't intentional. Gotta sympathize with the police busting your balls on this one.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 9:40:55 PM EDT
Wear a tank top as an undershirt. This works really well for me as it breaks up the outline and the shirt over it is a second layer that just hangs there.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 5:25:54 PM EDT
D Professor. I think the Texas law states something like detected by a reasonable person. I don't have my "book" in front of me so don't quote me on that. I've been through three classes and 6 instructors of which 5 were former or current leo's. All of them said the same thing; dont let anyone know your packin. Don't even let them guess you're packin. If the "reasonable" joe public blows the whistle, whether it was a guess, or visions of a print, or you raised up to grab the chips off the top shelf and they thought they saw a holster, a human (leo) is going to make a decision about how responsible you are. This person/s may not be too fond of concealed carry. I prefer not to roll the dice.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 1:09:56 AM EDT
Tell them it's your wang folded up, so it won't hang out the bottom of your shorts.
A cure would be to buy a good holster rig. Another may be to tailor your clothing to adapt to concealment better. Slightly oversized button up shirts that are untucked will cover your belt line, and not cling to your sides. It would be tough for anyone to judge if you have a firearm on. If your belt is Walmart garbage, that's your problem. It's allowing the butt of the gun to hang out away form your body. Then you're doing the barney fife, and printing much more than you would normally.
Friends don't let friends buy 15 dollar holsters and belts.
Go see lightning arms for some Milt -- Got Milt?
www.lightningarms.com
Craig and his wife will be more than happy to help you out.
-Steve
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 6:10:14 AM EDT
As a general rule, dark fabrics print less than light ones; heavy twill-like fabrics less than thinner or "clingy" ones; and printed fabrics less than solid colors. Larger prints work better than small ones.

I have seen guys with what looked like a goiter on their sides...dumb, dumb, dumb...but a practiced eye can often spot things most others cannot. I suspect that either your buddy was really sloppy with his concealment, or he gave the officer some lip, or that the cop was having a bad hair day. Most cops won't spot a CCW if you are even halfway trying at concealment, but to classify "printing" as "display" unless it is very blatant, is probably not going past the lecture stage in most places.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 8:21:06 AM EDT
I live in the gun-unfriendly Northeast, am a retired LEO and have carried a concealed weapon essentially my entire adult life. I have never given a great deal of concern about concealment, and none about printing. I have had my share of unintentional displays (pant leg riding over an ankle holster, jacket blowing open, shirt rising over holster - even had my gun fall through my pant leg twice (stopped tucking it in my belt after that) even had one fall out of a fanny pack; and have never been challanged. Granted I'm a white guy, conservative dresser and sported a mustache most of my life, and have never heard any brother cop hassle a ccw holder unless it was obvious the guy was making an effort to show off. The only time I remeber us busting chops was a guy carrying two guns in cross draw with both butts very visable (walking down a very crowded street with a girl holding each arm). He was in viol of two of his restrictions (he posessed a limited carry - on duty only), and while we could have lifted his permit he only got a stern lecture - no paper.

I would be very interested to hear of people actually hassled or even more whether anyone has ever lost ccw due to printing or an unitended display.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 1:49:01 PM EDT
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. In Tennessee you can carry concealed or not. I carry my H&K USP compact 40 cal in a Kydex paddle holster on my hip in plain view. I never concleal it.

I've never had a problem with cops or the general public about it. I even wear it when I walk into my bank and nobody has ever said anything.

I did have one idiot that was a rent-a-cop try and tell me I had to wear it concealed and I was breaking the law wearing it like that. He said it even stated on my permit that it was a concealed carry permit only. He told me this in a convenience store that a friend of mine owned (he was a friend of the owner). He also said it was illegal for me to wear it into the store because they sold beer.

I've met him a few times and he's a real "knowitall" kind of guy that I just couldn't help but enjoy putting him in his place.

First I told him if I was breaking the law he should try and disarm me but I warned him he would receive a severe pistol whipping. (pistol whipping is a lost art these days, guess I'm just old school..lol)

He just stood there looking at me like I couldn't be serious. Then I told him the law was a gun couldn't be carried into a place that sold beer to be consumed on the property, a convienence store didn't count. I then showed him my permit and that it stated "Gun carry permit". It doesn't say anything about being concealed. He shut up pretty fast.

Other than that one time nobody has ever said anything. Too bad not all states believe in open carry.

Link Posted: 12/20/2003 2:35:24 PM EDT
In Orygun, which outside of the Willamette Valley, especially Portland and Eugene, is gun friendly, my CCW instructor said "don't print." He didn't want us getting into gray areas of the law, he just emphasized don't let anyone know you're carrying, and no one will hassle you.

99% of the cops I've met are pro-carry and wouldn't hassle you if you had a whoops. I just don't want to draw that 1% that thinks only LEO's should be armed.

I just felt it was better to have a good holster, dress accordingly, and don't get complacent about wearing a sidearm. That way I won't startle the horses and have to explain myself to a LEO.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 2:32:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By flinterfan:
In Orygun, which outside of the Willamette Valley, especially Portland and Eugene, is gun friendly, my CCW instructor said "don't print." He didn't want us getting into gray areas of the law, he just emphasized don't let anyone know you're carrying, and no one will hassle you.

99% of the cops I've met are pro-carry and wouldn't hassle you if you had a whoops. I just don't want to draw that 1% that thinks only LEO's should be armed.

I just felt it was better to have a good holster, dress accordingly, and don't get complacent about wearing a sidearm. That way I won't startle the horses and have to explain myself to a LEO.



Sounds like a well thought out plan!
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