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Posted: 3/21/2006 8:11:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 8:13:58 AM EDT by Combatvet]
Section 46.035(a) of the Texas Penal Code makes it a crime for a person with a handgun license to intentionally fail to conceal the handgun.

What about printing? Is that still concealed.

I carry a pretty large handgun and some printing is evident. Could I be prosecuted? I can't seem to find any way around some "printing", I've tried quite a few holsters but it's hard to conceal it 100% in jeans & T-shirt. Idea's, without changing my firearm?
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:19:05 AM EDT
The Texas cop who did my CHL class told me that basically 'concealed' is that no one can see that you are carrying the weapon. This means no printing. If you are wearing a vest or a fanny pack, lots of people will figure you are carrying, but if they can't see the weapon or it's outline, then you are OK. If you look at it from a cops perspective, they don't want hundreds of calls from hysterical soccer moms complaining about some psycho with a gun at the local Kroger. You can probably find a proper holster and the apparel to conceal it. Otherwise, find another handgun.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:20:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 8:22:48 AM EDT by hamishdhu]

Originally Posted By Combatvet: I carry a pretty large handgun and some printing is evident. Could I be prosecuted? I can't seem to find any way around some "printing", I've tried quite a few holsters but it's hard to conceal it 100% in jeans & T-shirt. Idea's, without changing my firearm?


My kneejerk response is that you need to carry something concealable. I realize your concern is to avoid changing to a concealable gun but you seem to have put yourself into a quandary by attempting to conceal a gun you have difficulty concealing. Isn't that a message in itself?


GC CH. 411. DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY OF THE STATE OF TEXAS* * * * *
Subch. H. LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN
GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:

(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of
which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable
person.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 9:07:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 9:11:17 AM EDT by Combatvet]
I completely get finding another handgun, but the next step down would be a subcompact.

Am I right assuming that everyone "prints" to a certain degree?


I don't consider my printing" excessive, but it is noticeable by my wife, but only after I ask her to look.

When I say large it is a full size 1911, but when I step down to a SIG 229 with a different holster the printing only changes slightly, albeit noticeable.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:13:52 AM EDT
Removing the weapon from "plain view" constitutes concealment in my book. Printing does not mean "not concealed" as the weapon itself is still out of sight. Now if you shove that 5" 1911 into your speedo and walk around the public swimming pool, that would be a different story, but I don't think many LEO's are going to say that "printing" equals "not concealed" since it's still "out of plain view".
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:23:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combatvet:
I completely get finding another handgun, but the next step down would be a subcompact.



While you "get" finding another handgun, question is...can you "afford" another one?
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:34:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 9:27:21 PM EDT by Combatvet]
!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:41:52 PM EDT
Well, johninaustin did say that if he saw a guys pantleg ride up and expose his snubbie in a restaurant, he would arrest him for brandishing....
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:53:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combatvet:
Section 46.035(a) of the Texas Penal Code makes it a crime for a person with a handgun license to intentionally fail to conceal the handgun.

What about printing? Is that still concealed.

I carry a pretty large handgun and some printing is evident. Could I be prosecuted? I can't seem to find any way around some "printing", I've tried quite a few holsters but it's hard to conceal it 100% in jeans & T-shirt. Idea's, without changing my firearm?




I bet that is a key word that is missed alot....
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:53:55 PM EDT
So how would this work in places that have both open and concealed carry like AZ or AK?

Here it does not matter so much if you print, I swear everyone had so much crap on their personal "Bat belts" that guns do not draw any attention. A guy could be in a Gucci suit and still have a leatherman, cell phone, knife, and flashlight holster on his belt.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:57:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:
So how would this work in places that have both open and concealed carry like AZ or AK?

Here it does not matter so much if you print, I swear everyone had so much crap on their personal "Bat belts" that guns do not draw any attention. A guy could be in a Gucci suit and still have a leatherman, cell phone, knife, and flashlight holster on his belt.



note the Texas Penal Code at the top. I was wondering if it was the same for my state as well but........
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:59:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:
So how would this work in places that have both open and concealed carry like AZ or AK?

Here it does not matter so much if you print, I swear everyone had so much crap on their personal "Bat belts" that guns do not draw any attention. A guy could be in a Gucci suit and still have a leatherman, cell phone, knife, and flashlight holster on his belt.



In states with both, you can open carry or conceal if you have a permit, but if you dont it has to be visible. Very simple.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 3:16:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By yekimak:
So how would this work in places that have both open and concealed carry like AZ or AK?

Here it does not matter so much if you print, I swear everyone had so much crap on their personal "Bat belts" that guns do not draw any attention. A guy could be in a Gucci suit and still have a leatherman, cell phone, knife, and flashlight holster on his belt.



In states with both, you can open carry or conceal if you have a permit, but if you dont it has to be visible. Very simple.



No permits needed here. There was an article on here a while back where a guy in MA(?) lost his ccw and handgun permits because someone saw his gun when the wind blew coat open. That sort of thing SUCKS.

We don't toss people in jail for nipple slips do we? A woman's skirt rides up and we all go WooHoo! We don't goto jail when there is a teepee in our pants.

The addition of "intentionally" does not help matters because it may not be up to the person carrying to define what is intentional or not.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 3:18:37 PM EDT
a looser overshirt for starts.

I guess you might be one of those skinny fellas, and a full-size sticks out too much on you.

A "just a t-shirt" wear does not convey itself to a waist CCW, unless wearing one of the thunderwear type holsters. Generally wear a t-shirt UNDER whatever gun (between you and the gun) and a loose shirt over it. I recently ordered a tuckable IWB holster that will allow me to wear my shirt tucked in the pants and still conceal the handgun. Ruger P93, not the smallest of guns.

I am about 5'9" and 240#, I can wear it at 3-4:30 and hide it fine under a denim shirt or vest. NO indication whatsoever. here's a trick for you to help hid it as well:

I wear my cell phone at 3:00, and put the IWB to the rear of it. It draws attention away from any bulge of the gun, and when I have the shirt where the phone is visible, it creates a rather large loose fold of shirt behind it that also helps hide the gun.

As I was told before I got my CCW, "It'll change how you dress."

Good luck!

No Expert
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 3:37:34 PM EDT
Concealed to me means that the average sheep can't notice it. If you aren't causing public alarm, then I wouldn't worry about it.

That being said, I have a full size Kimber on...Tell me where it is:


I do realize that my shirt is a bit loose. I had been moving boxes before the pic was taken.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 3:43:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 3:43:40 PM EDT by Cold]
Brains_45

Good point! clearly with the proper gear you can conceal a full size.

Hey Combatvet


Why dont ya post a pic of yourself and lets see if the people on here can see where your "printing at"
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 3:50:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cold:

Hey Combatvet


Why dont ya post a pic of yourself and lets see if the people on here can see where your "printing at"



I think that is an excellent idea. We can help ya out. I mean, if we can spot it that's one thing, but if the average joe can.....

Just trying to help.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 3:57:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combatvet:
Fuck you, asshole!



eh....I think Cold might have been implying that changing your attire to suit your gun would be cheaper and possibly more feasible than changing your gun to suit your attire. I don't think that any offense was intended. Buying a new gun just to lose an inch or two off the barrel is an expensive proposition no matter how you slice it, and just wearing different clothing would allow you to conceal your gun of choice.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:01:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kcobean:

Originally Posted By Combatvet:
Fuck you, asshole!



eh....I think Cold might have been implying that changing your attire to suit your gun would be cheaper and possibly more feasible than changing your gun to suit your attire. I don't think that any offense was intended. Buying a new gun just to lose an inch or two off the barrel is an expensive proposition no matter how you slice it, and just wearing different clothing would allow you to conceal your gun of choice.



There's a history here you don't know about.

I would just like to have a thread that isn't commented on by him & his friend, stirring up the pot.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:04:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 4:07:47 PM EDT by Cold]

Originally Posted By kcobean:

Originally Posted By Combatvet:
Fuck you, asshole!



eh....I think Cold might have been implying that changing your attire to suit your gun would be cheaper and possibly more feasible than changing your gun to suit your attire. I don't think that any offense was intended. Buying a new gun just to lose an inch or two off the barrel is an expensive proposition no matter how you slice it, and just wearing different clothing would allow you to conceal your gun of choice.




kcobean, your right, guns these days are not cheep by any means, sometimes, other options can help fix the situation, in this case, Combatvet's "printing issues" I was just pointing out the fact that guns these days arnt cheep and maybe other ideas could be considered. Since he did post it here, I figured he was considering all options and listening....
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:08:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combatvet:

Originally Posted By kcobean:

Originally Posted By Combatvet:
Fuck you, asshole!



eh....I think Cold might have been implying that changing your attire to suit your gun would be cheaper and possibly more feasible than changing your gun to suit your attire. I don't think that any offense was intended. Buying a new gun just to lose an inch or two off the barrel is an expensive proposition no matter how you slice it, and just wearing different clothing would allow you to conceal your gun of choice.



There's a history here you don't know about.

I would just like to have a thread that isn't commented on by him & his friend, stirring up the pot.



Oh, I gotcha. Sorry.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:17:42 PM EDT
Cold,

I'd be a hell of a lot more receptive to feedback from you if it didn't always come in the form of some sarcastic attack directed towards me. You really need to examine your responses to my posts, there's always some smart remark associated within.

I'd prefer you just to refrain and restrain yourself from even posting in threads originated by me.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:12:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:
So how would this work in places that have both open and concealed carry like AZ or AK?

Here it does not matter so much if you print, I swear everyone had so much crap on their personal "Bat belts" that guns do not draw any attention. A guy could be in a Gucci suit and still have a leatherman, cell phone, knife, and flashlight holster on his belt.



In AZ you can't be "concealed" unless you have a CCW. Concealed is not defined in the law explicitly, but case law has pretty much said that an inch of firearm or holster must be visible. If you have a CCW you can do as you like.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:30:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Brians_45:
Concealed to me means that the average sheep can't notice it. If you aren't causing public alarm, then I wouldn't worry about it.

That being said, I have a full size Kimber on...Tell me where it is:
members.cox.net/blarose1/Concealed_Front.JPG

I do realize that my shirt is a bit loose. I had been moving boxes before the pic was taken.



I'll play... I think it's at about 1-2 o'clock IWB. My wife thinks it's on the other side ~ 11 o'clock.

CV, not trying to offend. Your question certainly is regarding carry issue, but it has a very distinct local flavor. Have you tried posting this question in the TX HTF? The GA HTF is frequented by several LEOs, so we usually get a decent reply when we ask questions regarding local laws. I presume the TX HTF is the same.

I'm 5'9 170 lbs and I carry a sig 229 in a Milt Sparks VM2. When I wear it under a T-shirt, the grip and hammer definitely print a little. Dark shirts help camoflage and thicker shirts help too. As far as I know, the only time I've ever been "made" is when a store clerk backed into me when my head was turned the other way. He ran smack into my 229. He gave me a funny look, and I just pretended like he bumped into my cell phone. Personally, I think vests and fanny packs scream, "hey I'm carrying!!!"

It is interesting how different the laws are from state to state. In GA, it is legal to open carry, but many who have tried it have been charged with causing a public disturbance or some other nonsense. We don't have to worry so much about printing since the sheep don't seem to notice.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:28:25 PM EDT
I carry an XD 9 Subcompact IWB at about 4 o'clock. If I'm wearing a tshirt untucked, the grip prints a little, but I believe it looks like joe schmoe's cell phone in a belt hoster. The only time (I believe) it was noticed was when I was getting out of the car at a gas station and my shirt came up over the grip. The lady in the car next to me get giving me funny looks. I guess she thought I was gonna rob the joint while her husband was in there buying their "liquid groceries".
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:30:44 PM EDT
That's rough that you can't even have a little printing in your state. When I got my SS2 I asked a few people if they noticed anything about me when I was wearing my 1911 fullsize and none could spot it.

My standard wear is a t-shirt loose on the outside, a tucked-into-pants undershirt or longsleeve with the gun+holster positioned inbetween the two shirts. Works great for me.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:38:02 PM EDT
Why not just start wearing buttonups, unbuttoned? If the pistol is far enough to your side and the buttonup is long enough.. it doesn't matter much.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:30:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By birdbarian:

Originally Posted By Brians_45:
Concealed to me means that the average sheep can't notice it. If you aren't causing public alarm, then I wouldn't worry about it.

That being said, I have a full size Kimber on...Tell me where it is:
members.cox.net/blarose1/Concealed_Front.JPG

I do realize that my shirt is a bit loose. I had been moving boxes before the pic was taken.



I'll play... I think it's at about 1-2 o'clock IWB. My wife thinks it's on the other side ~ 11 o'clock.
CV, not trying to offend. Your question certainly is regarding carry issue, but it has a very distinct local flavor. Have you tried posting this question in the TX HTF? The GA HTF is frequented by several LEOs, so we usually get a decent reply when we ask questions regarding local laws. I presume the TX HTF is the same.

I'm 5'9 170 lbs and I carry a sig 229 in a Milt Sparks VM2. When I wear it under a T-shirt, the grip and hammer definitely print a little. Dark shirts help camoflage and thicker shirts help too. As far as I know, the only time I've ever been "made" is when a store clerk backed into me when my head was turned the other way. He ran smack into my 229. He gave me a funny look, and I just pretended like he bumped into my cell phone. Personally, I think vests and fanny packs scream, "hey I'm carrying!!!"

It is interesting how different the laws are from state to state. In GA, it is legal to open carry, but many who have tried it have been charged with causing a public disturbance or some other nonsense. We don't have to worry so much about printing since the sheep don't seem to notice.



Nope on both guesses.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:35:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By No_Expert:
a looser overshirt for starts.

I guess you might be one of those skinny fellas, and a full-size sticks out too much on you.

A "just a t-shirt" wear does not convey itself to a waist CCW, unless wearing one of the thunderwear type holsters. Generally wear a t-shirt UNDER whatever gun (between you and the gun) and a loose shirt over it. I recently ordered a tuckable IWB holster that will allow me to wear my shirt tucked in the pants and still conceal the handgun. Ruger P93, not the smallest of guns.

I am about 5'9" and 240#, I can wear it at 3-4:30 and hide it fine under a denim shirt or vest. NO indication whatsoever. here's a trick for you to help hid it as well:

I wear my cell phone at 3:00, and put the IWB to the rear of it. It draws attention away from any bulge of the gun, and when I have the shirt where the phone is visible, it creates a rather large loose fold of shirt behind it that also helps hide the gun.
As I was told before I got my CCW, "It'll change how you dress."

Good luck!

No Expert




If this method is used, practice with it and the clothing you will normally wear. I do this, and it works great, but I have a few shirts that seem to naturally hang up at the phone and make it difficult to draw smoothly.

Combatvet, I really don't know much how to help you other than encouraging a different style of clothing. In FL, "concealed" means out of sight. Beyond that, there's no distinction in the statute. Most LEO's I have spoken with about it really don't care as long as the gun isn't showing.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 1:13:21 PM EDT
Brians_45:

I want a shot (pun intended). It is roughly 3-4:00. My guess is IWB. Right where that little clip on your belt is at?
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 1:42:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tunatuk:
Brians_45:

I want a shot (pun intended). It is roughly 3-4:00. My guess is IWB. Right where that little clip on your belt is at?



Ding Ding Ding! It's about 4:00, right behind the beltloop on my side. It is in a Galco SkyOps IWB holster. I carry it 24/7 except while I am at work, then it stays in my desk. I have worn it to several "Formal" events where a dress shirt and slacks were worn, but no coat. Haven't been spotted yet. It is a very comfortable holster, just make sure that you have a good belt to go with it.

Brian
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 4:08:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Brians_45:
Concealed to me means that the average sheep can't notice it. If you aren't causing public alarm, then I wouldn't worry about it.

That being said, I have a full size Kimber on...Tell me where it is:


I do realize that my shirt is a bit loose. I had been moving boxes before the pic was taken.




How do you like your Galco holster? I'm on their website and it looks good, but I just want to make sure it's worth 80 bucks.

I mean, have you just been really amazed with it? Are there any little things that bug you about it at all?

Thanks for the feedback
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 4:17:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 4:18:13 PM EDT by CLand72]
oops
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:02:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CLand72:

Originally Posted By Brians_45:
Concealed to me means that the average sheep can't notice it. If you aren't causing public alarm, then I wouldn't worry about it.

That being said, I have a full size Kimber on...Tell me where it is:


I do realize that my shirt is a bit loose. I had been moving boxes before the pic was taken.




How do you like your Galco holster? I'm on their website and it looks good, but I just want to make sure it's worth 80 bucks.

I mean, have you just been really amazed with it? Are there any little things that bug you about it at all?

Thanks for the feedback



I love it. I have absolutely zero complaints, but bear in mind that I have not tried the Versa Max II, which many people like as well. As I stated, I wear this thing a lot, and it has never given me any reason to complain. No quirks/little things that bother me. Well worth the $80 IMO.

Brian
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:40:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By No_Expert:
a looser overshirt for starts.

I guess you might be one of those skinny fellas, and a full-size sticks out too much on you.

A "just a t-shirt" wear does not convey itself to a waist CCW, unless wearing one of the thunderwear type holsters. Generally wear a t-shirt UNDER whatever gun (between you and the gun) and a loose shirt over it. I recently ordered a tuckable IWB holster that will allow me to wear my shirt tucked in the pants and still conceal the handgun. Ruger P93, not the smallest of guns.

I am about 5'9" and 240#, I can wear it at 3-4:30 and hide it fine under a denim shirt or vest. NO indication whatsoever. here's a trick for you to help hid it as well:

I wear my cell phone at 3:00, and put the IWB to the rear of it. It draws attention away from any bulge of the gun, and when I have the shirt where the phone is visible, it creates a rather large loose fold of shirt behind it that also helps hide the gun.
As I was told before I got my CCW, "It'll change how you dress."

Good luck!

No Expert




If this method is used, practice with it and the clothing you will normally wear. I do this, and it works great, but I have a few shirts that seem to naturally hang up at the phone and make it difficult to draw smoothly.

Combatvet, I really don't know much how to help you other than encouraging a different style of clothing. In FL, "concealed" means out of sight. Beyond that, there's no distinction in the statute. Most LEO's I have spoken with about it really don't care as long as the gun isn't showing.



I have been, and I know that the better the concealment, the slower the draw. I am not figuring on winning in a street "draw down" at noon, but the element of surprise is still mine. (I hope)

No Expert
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