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Posted: 3/16/2006 11:03:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 5:43:32 AM EDT by rtech]
I saw the thread a while back about post pix of you at your job (I guess to flush out the people who work at McD's and play Ranger Joe at home) and if you pack your firearm at work.

I was a computer engineer for the last 10 years or so. I took a break to care for my ailing grandfather. I'm back in AZ now but can't find work as an engineer. I am painting houses as a sideline. It's okay work, I stay to myself and I get to pack my P220 everyday.

Which brought me to the issue at hand. I have packed a firearm most of my adult life, in uniform and out. Sometimes I was unable to pack at a workplace due to policies and such.

For those who don't carry daily or carry on and off, please train. This is why:

I was at a home doing prep work before painting. Owners are usually not home and I am all around the outside of the house doing my thing.

I was caulking some cracks in the stucco and some kids were walking by with a rather large dog. It broke free of the grip of the teenager and started to charge me. I was packing my 220, but in that instant, I was thinking at lightspeed about what to do. They say that diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggy" while finding a large rock. I was looking all over for a weapon to stave off the aggressive pooch, all the while thinking that I am going to be mauled pretty bad by this horse-like beast.

Well, the angry doggy decided that about 5 feet from me to break off the attack and listen to his child/owner. Tragedy averted. The type of dog was - umm,,, big, black and vicious. All I remember.

The thing is that I pack everyday - even while caring for grandpa when I left the house, as rare as that was. I practiced IDPA religiously until 2 years ago. Have been an armed guard and was in training for a PD before I left to help grandpa. I reload, have worked in a gunshop and even pack around the house.

It didn't even hit me that I had my sidearm on until after the incident. I guess it was such a surprise and I wasn't thinking about a dog attack at all. Keep in mind that I usually carry an ASP baton, pepper spray, a Kubaton and some kind of high-end folding knife at all times (Emerson CQC7 usually) - but not while I paint houses.

I was running in my mind what I had accessible to me to fight off puppy and everything was missing that I mentally inventoried. The 220 never even came to my list. I didn't think it was a lethal incident, so the firearm never made the list.

My point is that I was weak in the mindset dept that day and if you carry part time, train yourself to instinctively determine the threat and use the force you need to if you have options. Don't forget the final option.

The argument could be that I have too many tools/options, but I have used less lethal force before where I would have had to withdrawl from the threat (may or may not have worked) or kill them outright.

I'll keep the options open as I really don't want to be mauled to death by Fluffy the Poodle, if I don't have to kill poor Fluffy outright.


Besides, I doubt I could kill off the family pet in front of kids unless I had no other options.


Godspeed to everyone.


ADDED:

Found a bottle of pepper spray I got for bears a while back. I think I'll add that to my tool bag since I won't be packing my other stuff during the day. I think it will be a good solution to dog attacks if I wouldn't have to shoot them. I really don't need that.

I'm thinking about borrowing a Tazer from my roommate. He has a bunch for his squad with the sheriff's dept.

Train, train, train. The lest you bleed in combat.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 4:21:07 AM EDT
Hmm interesting story. In that situation I think a shot to the ground would probably scare the dog off--but the kids probably would've went berserk and called the cops "This crazy guy shot at my dog!" etc etc.

In any case, glad you DID NOT get mauled!
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 4:27:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 4:53:38 AM EDT
+1 for the people in the area calling the cops on you and reporting discharging a weapon in public if you are lucky, if not shooting at children and their cute puppy
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 5:33:58 AM EDT

I usually carry an ASP baton, pepper spray, a Kubaton and some kind of high-end folding knife beef jerky at all times


There ya go. Why do you think they have so much of it at gun shows?
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 10:18:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 10:19:35 AM EDT by WSmac]
Do you think your reaction could have been because you haven't trained to shoot dogs?

The 'threat' you have been training for walks upon two legs and looks alot like yourself, communicates like you do, and you probably have unconciously trained all your life how to size up the two-legged animal and what to respond with when threatened by it.

Thinking back all my years (really not that many ), all dog threats I have encountered never resulted in actual contact except maybe for my foot to their head a couple of times.
My reaction to dogs has always been to find a rock, stick or something similar to beat it with... never to shoot it.

LEO's are trained and conditioned to respond to a physical threat with a few items, one being the firearm.
When an LEO is at an incident, they are probably psychologically ready to draw their firearm upon any perceived physical threat, including a dog. They are less likely to differentiate between the type of animal threatening them, than civilians are.

Since you are not in that place mentally, you did what you have always been ready to do all your life... beat the dog off you!
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 12:47:13 PM EDT
Funny, the first thing I think of when I see a stray dog in the neighborhood IS my sidearm. Luckily they haven't been aggressive just getting a taste of freedom.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 12:56:40 PM EDT
A dog is an animal.
If it attacks you, kill it.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 3:08:23 PM EDT
If it would have been ripping your arm off you would have remembered you have it.



Link Posted: 3/17/2006 5:32:05 PM EDT
Unless you are a serious dog person, most people couldn't tell if a dog was actually going to attack them or just run at them. My money says that dog was not in attack mode. The child owner never trained that dog to stop on command. Dogs, unless they are trained, are a lot like people who aren't trained in that if they go beyond the point of control to all out attack, senses shut down, & reason doesn't enter into the equasion. If the dog was going to attack you, you would have had to stop the attack. I'm glad everything worked out for you. Good idea with the pepper spray.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 7:02:20 PM EDT
WSmac and 1000yds are fairly correct. I wasn't looking at a 4 legged attacker/threat and have trained for the two legged variety for a long time. Wasn't in the proper frame of mind in the short time it happened.

I am a dog person and I would agree that the dog wasn't set on mauling me or it would have. I have also been trained while in the Army on countering a dog attack, but it always involved a lethal solution.

I'm not above shooting a dog, but it will be my last option, if needed. I would rather give it pause to live another day. But I do usually keep my eye out for all threats, 2 legged, 4 legged and motorized. I would say that I was in condition clear and totally unprepared at that moment. I also am not used to working in the outside, in an open area. Since being out of the Army 20 years, I have had a desk job. Now I don't. But I also get to pack my gun everyday.

Just food for thought on your everyday preperations and training.

Take care.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 7:16:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 8:20:55 PM EDT
Only thing I have ever killed with my defensive/play guns have been a snakebit dog and an armordilla tearing up my yard. Not high stress situations

I once drew down on an oppossum. Just got home, got out, and heard a huge crash 20ft away in the woods. I drew faster than I could in practice and stepped backwards a few steps before I saw its beady little eyes and just went inside. I didnt go for my knife, light, or cell phone...just the glock. I did drop my keys though in the draw.

I was expecting a person, but had seen nothing. If it woulda been a dog i would have been ready anyway...Im not sure how I would act if I had seen a dog first instead of hearing an unidentified sound first, but im just as scared of dogs as people
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 6:53:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 6:54:36 PM EDT by birdbarian]

Originally Posted By meltdown:
the only time I've had to use my CCW in 15 years was for a dog.



+1

Only been carrying for a few years, but I got charged in my front yard by two dogs that had been attacking a lady pushing a baby stroller on my street. I started screaming at the dogs, and they broke off their assault on her and came after me. Oh boy. I drew down on 'em, but didn't shoot. They both stopped at about 10 - 20 feet. I advanced on them while yelling at 'em. They backed down.

I still need to get some pepper spray.

The main reason I carry in my own yard is because of dogs. There's a black pit bull that gets loose once in a while. It won't get close to my kids.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 7:05:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 7:06:58 PM EDT by Graziani]

Originally Posted By birdbarian:
I still need to get some pepper spray.



Fox Lab 5.3, but for dogs I think baseball bat may work better.

I was told by one of the Afghanis that they used to kill Soviet army dogs by using an arm draped with heavy clothing as a bait and when they bit, use the other arm, place it behind the dog's neck, and do a windmill with both arms. Nice clean method.

Edit: Oh oh, even a better way. Dog for a dog. Get a mean dog that will remain loyal and friendly only to your family.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:45:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Graziani:

Originally Posted By birdbarian:
I still need to get some pepper spray.



Fox Lab 5.3, but for dogs I think baseball bat may work better.

I was told by one of the Afghanis that they used to kill Soviet army dogs by using an arm draped with heavy clothing as a bait and when they bit, use the other arm, place it behind the dog's neck, and do a windmill with both arms. Nice clean method.

Edit: Oh oh, even a better way. Dog for a dog. Get a mean dog that will remain loyal and friendly only to your family.



Ha,

Next time, I'll shoot 'em and bury 'em in YOUR back yard.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:28:02 PM EDT
Why not incinerate? Dust to dust


Originally Posted By birdbarian:
Ha,

Next time, I'll shoot 'em and bury 'em in YOUR back yard.

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