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Posted: 3/9/2006 1:59:19 AM EDT
In some states there are no laws prohibiting the carrying of a firearm in a location where alcohol is sold or served. Therefore, there is no reason why one shouldn't carry in such places.

That said, do you think it's morally wrong to have a drink or two if you're packing? I am not talking about when you go out partying; I am talking about when you go out to dinner with family or friends.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:01:05 AM EDT
Not a Chance.

You booze, you lose.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:02:39 AM EDT
I would post a reply to this, but I'm not in the mood to get flamed for the next eight pages.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:07:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
Not a Chance.

You booze, you lose.



Then why are you allowed to have a certain amount of alcohol to drive? After all, driving is a privilege and carrying a firearm is a right.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:07:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 2:08:18 AM EDT by bblake00]
"A" drink I would say it's O.K. but you better know what you're getting into if something happens.


It's no different than having 1 drink with dinner and then driving but I draw the limit at 1. Beyond that forget it.

If you're sensative to booze then you should not drink any.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:08:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 53vortec:
I would post a reply to this, but I'm not in the mood to get flamed for the next eight pages.



It's just a discussion, bro.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:10:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By abnk:

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
Not a Chance.

You booze, you lose.



Then why are you allowed to have a certain amount of alcohol to drive? After all, driving is a privilege and carrying a firearm is a right.



Exactly.


You are responsible for your actions drunk or sober.

But I do like the act that I could go out and shot gutter licking slime ball and get life. But if I kill a bunch of pregnant nuns while DUI I'll get 5 years or there abouts. Go figure
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:42:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bblake00:
"A" drink I would say it's O.K. but you better know what you're getting into if something happens.


It's no different than having 1 drink with dinner and then driving but I draw the limit at 1. Beyond that forget it.

If you're sensative to booze then you should not drink any.



That's pretty much the way I see it. I can't carry (MI) in a bar (place that "primarily" serves alcohol) but can carry in a restaurant that happens to serve alcohol.... I never have yet, but I have had a drink at my sister's house...usually with food, and not close to when driving home, while carrying.

No Expert
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:55:38 AM EDT
I do it. It's not illegal.

I drive home after having a couple drinks with dinner, too. That's not illegal either.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:12:42 AM EDT
IN Texas now, if the police officer that has stopped you (for whatever reason) states that he smelled alcohol on your breath, you can lose your CHL License.

Even if ya don't blow over the limit.

This is one of the main reasons I no longer meet w/ the local crew on Tuesday nights.

Not worth it, IMO.

Mike
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:17:48 AM EDT
I always thought this question was a no brainer, but then I guess common sense is not common!
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:36:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VLODPG:
I always thought this question was a no brainer, but then I guess common sense is not common!



Amen brother !

I treat it the same way I treat driving. I take my carrying very serious.

LB
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:54:47 AM EDT
No drinking while carrying. If I want a drink, I'll have it at home.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:58:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 4:00:10 AM EDT by Hokie]
I do whenever I go north of Greenville, Maine. Granted, when I'm driving, I put the gun on the seat because it's uncomfortable in the holster.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:59:06 AM EDT
key words....A DRINK.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:13:32 AM EDT
Here's the way I see it. If you have a drink with dinner and get in a wreck the lawyer will nail your ass to the outhouse wall. If you have a drink with dinner and God forbid have to shoot someone the lawyer will nail your ass to the outhouse wall.
Personally I don't drink at all when carrying but I might have one with an order of hot wings. As previously stated your choice.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:16:12 AM EDT
I don't drink, so the question is moot for me.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:28:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 6:29:59 AM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
Not a Chance.

You booze, you lose.



No, it's not morally wrong.
It might not always be the best idea, but you are not going to be impaired just because you had a beer with dinner.
If you can't control your actions after a drink or two, you need to not drink at all.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:30:34 AM EDT
Morally? No.

However, you are carrying a gun for a reason. If you are drinking and carrying you have given the "reasons" you are carrying a tactical advantage.

I don't drink and carry. You may do whatever you like.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:42:36 AM EDT
I only have one or two drinks with a meal when I go out so its not a problem. I don't go out drinking to get drunk.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:06:27 AM EDT
In NV it is legal as long as you do not exceed the .08 BAC or are under the influence of a controlled subastance.

The sad part is the legislature made the law similar to our DUI law. Our DUI law allows us to use force for a blood sample if you aren't cooperative. This law WILL be challenged and tossed out because the reasoning for conducting a forced blood draw for a DUI is not the same as the way they have written this law.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:09:18 AM EDT
Not me, when carrying no drinky.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:54:17 AM EDT
Texas has "ZERO" level of tolerance while carrying. Any detectable level of alcohol will result in a minimum of loss of license and they could push it further.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:58:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hamishdhu:
Texas has "ZERO" level of tolerance while carrying. Any detectable level of alcohol will result in a minimum of loss of license and they could push it further.



Every state should be like that.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:17:24 AM EDT
In NY you can carry in a bar or restaurant that serves.

Look at it this way. If you need to shoot someone because your life is in danger I really don't think it is going to matter if you are falling over drunk or stone sober. All else is moot and it is just survival at that point. You had better have some damn good evidence that you had to shoot the person though.

I would prefer to carry when I am drinking but I also know that I have good control. Flame away.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:36:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hamishdhu:
Texas has "ZERO" level of tolerance while carrying. Any detectable level of alcohol will result in a minimum of loss of license and they could push it further.



Wasn't too long ago that both gun racks* and open containers were legal in our vehicles. How the mighty have fallen.


*gun racks still are
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:39:58 AM EDT
just be prudent, can you live with a mistake, if it occurs?
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:40:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 10:42:51 AM EDT by u-baddog]
Morally?
I dont see it as a moral type of question. Its more common sense to me. I dont mix handling firearms and drinking as a rule.
All rules have exceptions, my morals dont have exceptions its right or wrong.

eta :I have in the past enjoyed a couple of beers will carrying.

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:44:07 AM EDT
One drink with dinner, no big deal. Packing while partying would, obviously, be a bad idea.

My personal limit is one drink, with dinner; anything more and I either don't carry, or I don't drink. For me, a drink, even with dinner, is rare.

In my state, the rule is the same as DUI (If you are at .08, you are drunk and should not be driving or in possesion of a loaded firearm), and there are no restrictions on carrying in a bar, or place that serves alchohol.

I think a "zero tolerance" law, such as what they have in Texas might be a little too restrictive... but there are good reasons to have such a law. It'd make things pretty much black and white.

Every person reacts to alchohol differently. For one person, even one drink may be too much for them to handle, for others a sixpack wouldn't effect them the same way. I think its a matter of personal responsibility more than some moral line in the sand.

Bottom line, you are responsible for your actions, wether intoxicated or not. You make your own decisions and bear the responsibility for the results of those decisions.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:52:06 AM EDT
I agree with WES. The most I have ever had while carrying is a glass of wine, and no more.

I think more appropriate question is, is it 'morally' wrong to carry inside an establishment that serves alcohol, even if you plan on not drinking?

I found myself 2 nights ago in a situation that aggrevated me. I love to eat out at chipolte, good, healthy, fast, and relatively cheap. I eat there ALL the time. And I am embarrased to admit, I just saw that they serve alochol! holy shit.

I was carrying at the time, and i was angry. At myself mostly, but also at the fact that my fav. rest. is compromised because they serve beer.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:27:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MGHenry:
just be prudent, can you live with a mistake, if it occurs?



Can you live with yourself if you needed your firearm and a loved one was seriously hurt or injured because you were having a glass of wine with dinner??

Why are people afraid of having any alcohol and having a gun, yet will hop behind the wheel of a 5,000 pound speeding bullet and drive it down the street? Which sounds more dangerous to you?
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:31:16 PM EDT
True...be prudent..understand your limits and abide by them. The fear is the anti gun individuals who would desire to make a circus out of a law abiding patriotic gun owner
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:34:22 PM EDT
I don't think that it is morally wrong, just irresponsible.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:41:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 3:41:35 PM EDT by tjg]


But I do like the act that I could go out and shot gutter licking slime ball and get life. But if I kill a bunch of pregnant nuns while DUI I'll get 5 years or there abouts. Go figurehinking.gif



Pregnant nuns? Now THERE is a questions of morals!

A drink while packing? Illegal in NY... and poor judgement no matter if it is legal or not... the better debate, IMHO, is why it is illegal for me to carry in a bar if I am not drinking... (which it is, in NY)

-tj
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:35:26 PM EDT
*Disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer, so this post is "my humble opinion". And we all know that opinions and assholes have alot in common. Take it for what it's worth..


In this age of frivolous lawsuits and the apparent absence of common sense in court rooms (based on the outcomes of civil lawsuits like Mrs. Snatchburned vs. McDonalds coffee), IMO it would be very unwise to drink alcohol while carrying. Even if it gets ruled a justified shooting, a civil lawyer is going to do the "You had a drink or two, you were feeling a little bold....Isn't it possible that if you were sober, you might have refrained from unleashing your messenger of death on my clients husband and he would still be alive to provide for his family?" thing. If he can get a judge to believe that, you may be screwed (read financially done for) for a very long time.

A beer personally isn't that important to me.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:38:29 PM EDT
God gave us grapes so that we can drink wine....

It is not wrong as long as you do not get a big buzz going. But if you have to use your gun, you can be sure that they prosicution will bring up the fact that you were drinking.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:44:38 PM EDT
Realistically, how would a prosecutor know that you had a drink that night? If you had ONE drink, and the shooting happened within minutes of finishing that drink, the police would have to make you blow or draw blood within an hour or so get a reliable test.

And since you were not operating a motor vehicle at that time, you can deny each and lawyer up after you explain the situation?

devil's advocate..
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:54:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hamishdhu:
Texas has "ZERO" level of tolerance while carrying. Any detectable level of alcohol will result in a minimum of loss of license and they could push it further.



Really? I thought the law said you can't carry while intoxicated. They didn't bother to define "intoxicated", but I don't remember it reading that any amount of booze at all is automatically illegal.

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:03:24 PM EDT
"A man has got to know his limitations!"

With that said in Minnesota the max BAL is .04 while carring which is 1/2 what it is for driving. So yes I do but I do know my limitations and if I want to go for more than @2 drinks I unload and lock the gun in the trunk and the wife drives home.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:38:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cfbigdaddy:
No drinking while carrying. If I want a drink, I'll have it at home.



What if threat comes to your home when you are drinking? Do you not shoot because you had a drink?

The way I see it, shooting in self-defense is the same whether you happen to be in a restaurant parking lot or at home.

I get the feeling that some think it is a right to have it at home, but a privilege to carry it outside. I blame our legislature for that. It's sad that carrying has become a privilege in some states.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:38:27 PM EDT
I am sure Billy the Kid or Wild Bill Hockok did it.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:37:11 AM EDT
I would say no just because of the consequences. If you had to shoot someone, the plaintiff's lawyer and perhaps even a prosecuter or grand jury might be negatively influenced by the revelation that you had been drinking.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:40:34 AM EDT
Not that this applies exactly.... "drink before eight, seal your fate" but like with flying, alcohol and guns don't mix. If you keep a clear head you will not only have better situational awareness, but improved mental and physical abilities.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:49:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tjg:
A drink while packing? Illegal in NY... and poor judgement no matter if it is legal or not... the better debate, IMHO, is why it is illegal for me to carry in a bar if I am not drinking... (which it is, in NY)

-tj



It is NOT illegal to CCW in bars and restaurants that serve in NY. Please do not put out bad information.

www.packing.org/state/new_york/#stateoff_limits
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:50:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tjg:

A drink while packing? Illegal in NY... and poor judgement no matter if it is legal or not... the better debate, IMHO, is why it is illegal for me to carry in a bar if I am not drinking... (which it is, in NY)

-tj



Would you be kind enough to provide a reference to the Penal Law section that prohibits carrying in establishments that serve alchohol. I have not run across this restriction before. Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 12:04:51 PM EDT
I don't find it morally wrong. I find it tactically unsound.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 12:12:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rob_H:
I would say no just because of the consequences. If you had to shoot someone, the plaintiff's lawyer and perhaps even a prosecuter or grand jury might be negatively influenced by the revelation that you had been drinking.



Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 1:16:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nomadicwookie:
I don't find it morally wrong. I find it tactically unsound.




I find NOT HAVING A GUN to be more "tactically unsound". YMMV.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 3:26:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 3:27:26 PM EDT by OrionSix]

Originally Posted By kcobean:
*Disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer,



Clearly.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:51:33 PM EDT
I gave up drinking twenty years ago. That was no big deal. I will never give up my guns!
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 8:47:57 PM EDT
Morally wrong, no.

I think it is irresponsible.

I do not want there to be any suspicion that my judgement could be somehow impaired if I have to pull the trigger.
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