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Posted: 9/11/2005 8:21:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 8:49:46 AM EDT by jackal2001]
Personally I carry a Glock 27 loaded with Magsafe Ammo.

www.impactsites2000.com/site3/magsafe.htm
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:34:54 AM EDT
Lets see!

My Kel-tec P32 gets FMJ Magtech 71 grain.
My S&W 39-2 gets JHP Remington 115 grain.
My SW40VE gets JHP Winchester 180 grain.

That covers most of the needs for me...
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:36:40 AM EDT
Glock 19 is carried with 115 grain Silvertips, P-32 is carried with 60 grain silvertips. Because in addition to people, they will also kill werewolves!
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:11:55 AM EDT
All glock 9mm's loaded with Winchester Ranger 147gr
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:37:19 AM EDT
There's a thread here that everyone needs to read before they get killed by using poor-performing self-defense loads in their pistols.

Condensed version:


Speer 135-grain gold dots in .38
Speer 124 or 147-grain gold dots in 9mm (or winchester ranger-T in the same weights)
180-grain gold dots or ranger-T in the .40 S&W
230-grain gold dots or ranger-T in the .45 ACP

There are a few others, but you can't go wrong with those.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:39:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
Personally I carry a Glock 27 loaded with Magsafe Ammo.

www.impactsites2000.com/site3/magsafe.htm




I would not trust my life with magsafe ammo if it was the only ammo left to shoot -- I've read too much online about poor performance, not to mention their advertisments really make me think they are advertising twards mall ninja's.



I cary either Gold dots or Fedreal HST's



Link Posted: 9/11/2005 11:42:53 AM EDT
Black Hills HP, Spear HP, Corbon HP, Winchester HP

I like all HP.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 11:54:36 AM EDT
Used to carry Hydroshocks but after reading the tacked info changed to Gold Dots.

I am ordering some Ranger T to see how that shoots, but so far am very happy with the Speer.

Seydou
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 12:08:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 12:23:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 12:24:35 PM EDT by fizassist]
Glock 19 or 26 with 124 gr +P gold dots.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 12:30:31 PM EDT
LSWCHP +p in .38 spl.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:05:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 1:13:04 PM EDT by jackal2001]
RobM,
They say in order to test ammo would be to shoot at cans of corn beef. The best cheapest alternative to a human body. Now I haven't gone that route but I have shot at 2L soda bottles filled with water that were lined up in a row. Ya I know it isn't ballistic gel either but I wanted to see what it would do to it.

I shot some varous hollow point .40 ammo at about 5' and they all penatrated through about 4 or 5 and went into the wood backstop. Nothing impressive about the holes they left coming out either.

I shot a .40 magsafe round into one then and it completely destroyed the first bottle and wrapped it inside out around itself. The round did penatrate into the second bottle and the pellets did come out the back of the second but that was about it.

You have read too much online about poor performance? Show me an article where someone got shot with magsafe and didn't do any damage. These rounds are for living targets only, not going through glass or walls, or cars. They shoot live goats with this stuff to test it. the only time you will be able to use your CCW is if your life depended on it, so don't plan on shooting through walls or cars.

I also have corbon, but don't carry that. Magsafe will do what it is intended to do and for its intended target.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:12:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
RobM,
They say in order to test ammo would be to shoot at cans of corn beef. The best cheapest alternative to a human body. Now I haven't gone that route but I have shot at 2L soda bottles filled with water that were lined up in a row.

I shot some varous hollow point .40 ammo at about 5' and they all penatrated through about 4 or 5 and went into the wood backstop. Nothing impressive about the holes they left coming out either.

I shot a .40 magsafe round into one then and it completely destroyed the first bottle and wrapped it inside out around itself. The round did penatrate into the second bottle and the pellets did come out the back of the second but that was about it.

You have read too much online about poor performance? Show me an article where someone got shot with magsafe and didn't do any damage. These rounds are for living targets only, not going through glass or walls, or cars. They shoot live goats with this stuff to test it. the only time you will be able to use your CCW is if your life depended on it, so don't plan on shooting through walls or cars.

I also have corbon, but don't carry that. Magsafe will do what it is intended to do and for its intended target.



'They say' will get you killed.


You really, really need to go read this and spend some time reading (but not posting) here before you blow someone's arm off with a magsafe - only to have them pick it up and beat you to death with it because you chose a poor load to defend yourself with. Handguns aren't rifles - there is NO room for error in ammo selection. Dramatic expansion is useless without sufficient penetration.

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:18:12 PM EDT
How much penatration do you need on a human body? An average persons chest is only about 12" thick.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:26:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
How much penatration do you need on a human body? An average persons chest is only about 12" thick.



What if the guy who attacks you isn't average?

What if he's wearing a heavy leather jacket? What if he holds his arm in front of him and your first shot blows his arm off without touching his chest?

This has only been discussed here eleventybillion times or so.


Carry magsafes if you like - but don't kid yourself; if you put aside the marketing hype, magsafes/glasers/other light hollowpoints can NOT be relied upon to give sufficient penetration.


You have to understand that the human torso - whichever part you happen to hit - is probably not comparable to a can of corned beef or a jug of water.

If you want to impress yourself, or your friends, light/fast/frangible bullets will suit you well.

If you want to maximize your chances of incapacitating your attacker, through tissue damage and the resultant blood loss, choose something heavier, slower, and that can be relied upon to expand under a wide variety of conditions after penetrating deeply enough to reach something important to normal bodily function.

It really is that simple.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:30:37 PM EDT
Ahh yes, I see now.
Here is a good article that proves your point. By the way I am not bashing anything here, just trying to get the facts!

www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number3/article432.htm
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:36:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 1:40:43 PM EDT by arowneragain]

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
Ahh yes, I see now.
Here is a good article that proves your point. By the way I am not bashing anything here, just trying to get the facts!

www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number3/article432.htm



It's sad how many people buy what the magazines advertise instead of what bears itself out in repeatable testing.

I used to do it myself.

Truth be known, nobody wants to be shot with ANYTHING - but if I have to shoot someone, I want all the advantage I can get.



edit:


and FWIW, the hydrashock load that the guys used in your linked artcile....is outdated. Newer loads perform even better.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:40:37 PM EDT
And what about the famous black talons?

Oh ya another thing I heard is some people alternate different kinds of ammo in mags. for the purpose of having the best of both worlds. hummmmmmmmm
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:45:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
And what about the famous black talons?

Oh ya another thing I heard is some people alternate different kinds of ammo in mags. for the purpose of having the best of both worlds. hummmmmmmmm



Black talons were good stuff.......a decade ago.

Current-production Winchester Ranger-T or Speer Gold-Dot (there are others, but these are the most common, easiest to find, and have the longest track records of the latest-generation defense bullets) have jackets that are bonded to the cores - producting more consistent, reliable penetration - and the hollowpoints are designed to more reliably expand if they get plugged with cloth/leather/whatever.

As for alternating ammo in magazines, I don't see the point, to be honest - gunfights are notoriously FLUID situations - you'll never get the same shooting scenario twice, so alternating loads to account for different target circumstances is a hit-or-miss proposition, not to mention that different amounts of recoil/flash/whatever from shot to shot aren't conducive to consistent shooting performance under stress.



(I really wish one of the resident experts here would chime in - I'm NOT an expert on this stuff - I just take the time to read/listen when the experts talk...)


Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:51:54 PM EDT
Just trying to get more info.

Anyway, remember watching all those 911 shows where people get shot. They all wind up in the hospital anyway. I think if you shoot someone still holding the weapon directly at them, they won't come for any more. that is just my take on it.

And you are right, I wouldn't want to get shot with a with anything either.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:56:41 PM EDT
Speer gold dot .40S&W 165gr
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 2:00:34 PM EDT
I am going to get a box of those Ranger -Ts
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 2:08:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
I am going to get a box of those Ranger -Ts



www.northwestloading.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=748
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 2:21:31 PM EDT
I have to get .40 but they make it in 165 or 180g. Does it honestly make a difference? Muzzle energy and vel is higher on the 165.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 2:44:33 PM EDT
Speer Gold Dot +P 185 grain in Glock 22, Federal 135-grain Hydra Shocks in Glock 27. I figure the lighter bullet will perform better from the shorter barrel.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 2:48:01 PM EDT
I like Speer Gold Dots.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:56:42 PM EDT
Primary: GLOCK 19 w/16 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +p and 19 more in the spare mag
BUG: Kel-Tec P-32 w/8 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 60 grain and 7 more in the spare mag
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:07:27 PM EDT
HORNADY TACTICAL AMMUNITION POLICE
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:13:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
I have to get .40 but they make it in 165 or 180g. Does it honestly make a difference? Muzzle energy and vel is higher on the 165.



180's are generally more reliable pentrators.


Read this thread:

www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000964#000000

But, honestly, once you get away from the magsafe/glaser/extreme-shok mentality and start using mid-to heavy-weight gold dots or ranger-t's, the difference between bullets becomes less important.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:17:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 10:18:55 PM EDT by clubsoda22]

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
I am going to get a box of those Ranger -Ts



www.northwestloading.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=748



Those guys are expensive. e-mail jwkpatrick@yahoo.com for your rangers.

147's in 9mm 180 in 40 and 230's in 45 are the way to go.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 7:09:36 PM EDT
Speer gold dots or Corbin hp's in a SA v10 31/2 in. ported .45
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 7:19:23 PM EDT
GLOCK 29 10mm with Winchester 175 grain Silvertips
Also carry a S&W 340 .38 with 125 grain Hornady XTP handloads
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:48:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 2:55:07 PM EDT by WMHM4]
right now I have Pow'r'ball 100gr 9mm in a G19 but I plan on getting rid of them and switching either to Gold dots or Corbon DPX

I just got rid of the Pow r ball and bought Hornady TAP 147gr 9mm
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 3:20:49 PM EDT
I just switched from 124 +P+ Hydrashoks to 124 +P GoldDots. I kept the Hydrashoks, of course, they are in the backup mags

I've Never read anything negative about Speer GoldDots or Winchester Rangers. And being on the net for a while, you can find negativity about anything.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 9:28:39 PM EDT
45APC Hydra Shock, Les Bear Concept VI.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 10:23:49 PM EDT
I carried .45 Hydra-Shoks for years. Like 10 years. I then started carrying Gold Dots. I carried Golden Sabers for a time in my G27 backup. I'm back to Gold Dots for the G27 and Corbon 45 +P 200gr in the P220. I also pack a mag of 230gr hardball. You never know.

I have also carried Gold Dots in my Mod 29 44 mag for a time.

I've heard that you should carry what your local PD does for liability reasons. I've never heard of anyone getting slammed in court for liability on ammo.

It all depends on what you carry for a gun and what you want to do. I feel Mag Safe ammo is like snake oil. I used to sell them at the gun shop. I wouldn't carry them. That's me. You are different.

I've heard that Golden Sabers have lower flash at night compared to Federal H-S. Corbon has more nightime flash, but have a hotter load, usually and hit harder. Gold Dots are pretty good and have supplied many police depts over the years. Same with Win Silver Tips.

Hey guys! That's why they make so many different firearms and ammo choices. We all have different opinions and needs. Opinions change over time. Do your research, don't listen to a paid magazine article/advertisement because your life will depend on your choice. Choose wisely. Your life might just depend on it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 10:51:37 PM EDT
124gr Federal Hydrashok in the 9mms

230gr Federal Hydrashok in the .45s
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 11:25:11 PM EDT
Winchester Ranger 230 +P .45ACP in a Glock 30
Winchester Ranger 127 +P 9mm in a Glock 19
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:23:14 PM EDT
Speer Gold Dots. Thats all i carry in my defense weapons.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:44:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist:
Glock 19 or 26 with 124 gr +P gold dots.



Same here in my G19
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:17:30 PM EDT
black hills 124 grain +p jhp (gold dot bullets) in a p226 or a keltec p-11.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:19:35 PM EDT
230 gr golden sabers
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:28:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
I have to get .40 but they make it in 165 or 180g. Does it honestly make a difference? Muzzle energy and vel is higher on the 165.

I shoot 155 gr Ranger in my Glock 22. To me it's a trade off. I shoot USPSA so I shoot pretty fast anyway, and with 155's I can get 3 shots into someone PDQ. The heavier the bullet the more muzzle flip. It's down to milliseconds traded for ft lbs but everything we do is about compromise in terms of CC. It's my choice. Glock 22 with 2 extra mags and (literally) weekly practice shooting fast and reloading fast. Choose a good performing round, get a good reliable, concealable gun, and then practice your ass off. Practice, Practice, Practice.


I'm a big guy (6ft, 290, 38 inch waist) so except for the middle of the summer I can conceal a G22. Most people can't. Another thing to that I hear a lot from the 1911 guys, "If I need more than 7 rounds I'm probably dead anyway" And they are right, because they are out of ammo. It is true that the vast majority of people that actually get into a gun fight fire less than 3 rounds at ranges far shorter than you'd think, It's also true that the vast majority of people will NEVER get into a gun fight. Prepare for everything, and again, practice your ass off. Hype is not for CC. Reliability is.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:31:03 PM EDT
9mm Ranger in +P+
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:16:25 PM EDT
I use either 230 Gr. Speer Gold Dots or 230 Grain Win Lawman Ranger SXT or whatever they call it these days.

I'm curious. Nobody carries a 200 gr. in .45 and I'm not entirely sure why. I'd really like to see some empirical evidence of the difference between 200 and 230 gr. in .45 ACP - anyone have a good link?

Link Posted: 9/27/2005 4:12:02 AM EDT
180gr Speer Dold Dots in my SA XD40 and 230gr Speer Gold Dots in my SA 1911-A1 loaded.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 3:22:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 3:26:38 PM EDT by Alien]
Winchester Ranger SXTs in .45 and 230 gr. (model RA45T). If I couldn’t find those, I’d use Speer Gold Dots in 230 gr. Some people call them Ranger T series, but the box says SXT. I know they're the same because they're the same model.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 3:19:54 AM EDT
Sig P239 .357 Sig with Speer Gold Dot 125 gr JHP.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 8:54:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2005 8:56:01 AM EDT by GrimCreaper]
I spent a lot of time reading this post and all that responded. Interestingly enough I saw no one comment on the Aguila IQ ammo. I know it is no longer available, but I thought it was a good choice and I still use it. I am most impressed with the 45ACP round. Am I crazy? probably....
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 9:34:42 AM EDT
Aguila IQ ammo is same along the line of Extreme shock/Magsafe. It's super light, frag quick but no penetration. One of the guy I know get into an incident and shoot the other person with his Glock 22, hit the other guy 6 times with Aguila IQ, and the guy that's being shot survived this incident. Not saying that you want to shoot someone dead, but most of time when a round do it's duty to stop the bad guy means he is either dead or going to be on wheel chair for the rest of his life. Heavier, reliable expansion ammo like Gold Dot or Ranger-T is the way to go.

My carry ammo is 127gr +P+ for my SIG pistol, and 124gr +P for my Kahr.
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 6:31:01 AM EDT
I carry a Kahr K40 40 S&W with Federal Hydrashock 135 (I think) grain rounds. I love this gun for CCW. Slim profile, very accurate, lots of knockdown power.
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