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Posted: 2/3/2022 7:57:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: For most of us, we spend a great deal of time around vehicles. There are a metric shitton of situations where you have light in one place and not another around vehicles. https://phillyslipandfallguys.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Dark_parking_lot.jpg |
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Posted: 2/3/2022 8:25:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bradd_D: Are you saying you'll be chasing the bad guy around the parking lot? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bradd_D: Originally Posted By bcauz3y: For most of us, we spend a great deal of time around vehicles. There are a metric shitton of situations where you have light in one place and not another around vehicles. https://phillyslipandfallguys.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Dark_parking_lot.jpg I would be if he had grabbed my kid. Or if I was trying to reassess the threat after moving to cover. Or to assess the surrounding area after shooting (he could have friends). |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 2/3/2022 9:49:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Sometimes I do.
Sometimes I don't. Risk assessment and all that. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 2/3/2022 9:51:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Also, everyone eats up Cowan's video, but not too many even know the Ballistic Radio podcast with Chuck Haggard even exists.
http://ballisticradio.com/2021/06/01/handgun-wmls-are-not-necessary-season-8-episode-344/ |
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Posted: 2/3/2022 9:56:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bcauz3y]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bradd_D: Are you saying you'll be chasing the bad guy around the parking lot? Go do some FoF. I earned my experience and knowledge. Earn your own. |
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Posted: 2/3/2022 10:05:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bcauz3y]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M: Also, everyone eats up Cowan's video, but not too many even know the Ballistic Radio podcast with Chuck Haggard even exists. http://ballisticradio.com/2021/06/01/handgun-wmls-are-not-necessary-season-8-episode-344/ Pocket EDC-style handheld light is actually more important, but a WML is a few hundred bucks and doesn't add much size or weight. Why wouldn't you want one? There is zero drawback. |
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Posted: 2/3/2022 10:33:21 PM EDT
[#7]
I used to EDC a light, havent since switching to a 43x. Might have to find a kydex guy and mirror this rig for my current setup.
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Posted: 2/3/2022 11:11:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bradd_D: If you need a light, how did you know you needed to draw your gun? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bradd_D: Originally Posted By fox2008: Statistically you could likely apply that same logic to a carry gun....assuming you don't live in the hood. Personally I put a light on any pistol I carry or might use for serious use outside of the range. It's dark 50% of the time, more in the winter and I can't always predict when the quick trip to the store with the wife in the afternoon turns into a 3 hour ordeal and it's dark by the time we get out.  I carry a small flash light too but prefer the idea of being able to use my gun & light at the same time and still have a free hand available if needed.I don't disagree with your concept on training, if your going to carry a gun with a light you should train with the light....and I do regularly. I’m sure there are countless scenarios where it might be done. You seemed to miss the larger point….as a group people who carry are trying to stack the deck in their favor in the unlikely event it’s needed. Some people want to stack even more by using commonly available technology such as WML and MRDS. I still carry a small flashlight but recognize a WML has advantages in some situations….such as gun drawn at night while using your offhand to control a child in a chaotic situation. Plus shooting at night is fun.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 2/4/2022 9:57:04 AM EDT
[#9]
I do, but the TLR-7A and TLR7-SUB make it so easy to do so on the pistols that I carry in the rotation. If these did not exist, I likely wouldn't as I carry a handheld as well which I would likely use first before the weapon light. I had X300Us and they are great lights, but I personally could not get around with carrying one concealed. For me, a reliable handheld is where it is at though, one that does not get in the way of a two handed grip and can still be held easily when reloading or clearing malfunctions. In my case, its a HSP D3FT. Basically a stubby surefire that only has one mode of operation. I also am a huge fan of the SL 2L-X as an EDC light and have bought many for friends and family who carry or do not carry a gun.
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Posted: 2/5/2022 3:41:21 PM EDT
[#10]
I don't think it's critical, especially if you also have a hand-held light, but it's probably not a bad idea either.
Depending on what gun I'm carrying, I may or may not have a light on it. Glock or clones, CZ P-01 : most likely it'll have a light on it. Not a Glock, none of my other handguns have a Pic or accessory rail, so no. Regardless, if I'm dressed, I have a flashlight on me. |
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Posted: 2/5/2022 3:53:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bmw20]
[#11]
Get both.
99.999999% of the time when I need to see something in the dark, I don’t want to be pointing a gun at it, so I carry a ZL. That other .0000001% of the time when I may have to point a gun at something, WML are now small enough that it’s a no brainer to at least have as an option. Anyone that has been in a situation where you have a gun pointed at someone with a light in your other hand and you need to call dispatch on your prep will tell you how nice it would be to have a WML. I no longer have a job where I have to do that....but if I ever find myself in a situation where I have to use my weapon now or in the future....I can think of several situations where I would also want to be on the phone with 911 while still having my weapon out, actively scanning for threats |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/5/2022 12:00:35 PM EDT
[#12]
No. Hand speed and instinctive aiming with a pistol have saved me on more than one occasion. It's hard enough getting a pistol out quickly; adding a light only makes things that much slower and more difficult to accomplish. I do, however, carry a high intensity tac light on my belt, though. Sometimes it can be useful, but not for gunfighting.
One of the first lessons I ever learned about CQB pistol gunfighting is to NEVER wait to verify. You will know when you're in such a situation; and, when something like this happens, anything you might do to slow down the shot can get you very quickly taken out of the fight, or maybe even killed. Remember: action/reaction time in a CQB pistol gunfight is measured in 10ths or 100ths of a second. Time to dawdle on the draw is something you will only very rarely have available. What is more, waving a gun around with an attached light on it serves to make you, the shooter, all the more visible too! The frequently unstated reality is that: Attached weapon lights should be used by SUPPORTED, and not by UNSUPPORTED shooters. In other words, if you are working by yourself then, ideally, your light should NOT be attached to your gun. (None of the above comments should be misconstrued into justifiable excuses for 'opening up' and suddenly blasting away at a dark target like your teenage daughter's boyfriend, or a philandering spouse moving around, late at night, inside of a darkened house. For newbies to the world of firearm self-defense I would recommend one of the NRA's excellent home self-defense courses—Like the courses that teach you to call out a warning BEFORE taking any further action.) |
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Posted: 3/6/2022 1:44:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Parthian: No. Hand speed and instinctive aiming with a pistol have saved me on more than one occasion. It's hard enough getting a pistol out quickly; adding a light only makes things that much slower and more difficult to accomplish. I do, however, carry a high intensity tac light on my belt, though. Sometimes it can be useful, but not for gunfighting. One of the first lessons I ever learned about CQB pistol gunfighting is to NEVER wait to verify. You will know when you're in such a situation; and, when something like this happens, anything you might do to slow down the shot can get you very quickly taken out of the fight, or maybe even killed. Remember: action/reaction time in a CQB pistol gunfight is measured in 10ths or 100ths of a second. Time to dawdle on the draw is something you will only very rarely have available. What is more, waving a gun around with an attached light on it serves to make you, the shooter, all the more visible too! The frequently unstated reality is that: Attached weapon lights should be used by SUPPORTED, and not by UNSUPPORTED shooters. In other words, if you are working by yourself then, ideally, your light should NOT be attached to your gun. (None of the above comments should be misconstrued into justifiable excuses for 'opening up' and suddenly blasting away at a dark target like your teenage daughter's boyfriend, or a philandering spouse moving around, late at night, inside of a darkened house. For newbies to the world of firearm self-defense I would recommend one of the NRA's excellent home self-defense courses—Like the courses that teach you to call out a warning BEFORE taking any further action.) How is a tlr7 going to slow down my draw? How is a handheld not going to make me more visible but a wml will? Don't wait to verify? I'm sorry. Your entire post makes no sense |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2022 10:45:32 AM EDT
[#14]
I know; I can tell! (I just got a better sense of with whom I am communicating.) Sorry, I promise not to do it again.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 10:48:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Yes and no. Two have lights. Deep carry does not.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 1:27:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Yes.
I used to have an XC1 on my G19 but a few years ago I took the plunge to an X300U. I've been rocking the U-boat ever since. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2022 8:28:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Parthian: No. Hand speed and instinctive aiming with a pistol have saved me on more than one occasion. It's hard enough getting a pistol out quickly; adding a light only makes things that much slower and more difficult to accomplish. I do, however, carry a high intensity tac light on my belt, though. Sometimes it can be useful, but not for gunfighting. Spoken like a true 21'er.  Care to share details about your "occasions". I'm betting the answer will be... NO. Gecko45... is that you?!  |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 8:31:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OG1: 2 is 1.... I have both :) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OG1: Originally Posted By 03RN: Not for nothing but a handheld can do all that plus you can use it to assess possible threats without drawing your gun. +1 And I don't shoot nearly as well while trying to illuminate the target with a handheld as I do when holding the gun with both hands |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 8:38:30 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: That's not the point. I quoted a statement saying he wants to PID before taking a shot which is why he wants a wml. I always carry a handheld as well. Even when I have a wml. I want to PID a threat before I draw. that was mostly directed toward an "in the home/Bump in the night" encounter I'm not going to search my home with a handheld But it's also a sliding scale, somewhat. Is there an unknown person 25' away addressing me in an aggressive manner-Handheld Is there an unknown person 10' adressing me in an aggressive manner-I want to have the option to go to the pistol first and still get PID |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 2:32:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SMC527: that was mostly directed toward an "in the home/Bump in the night" encounter I'm not going to search my home with a handheld But it's also a sliding scale, somewhat. Is there an unknown person 25' away addressing me in an aggressive manner-Handheld Is there an unknown person 10' adressing me in an aggressive manner-I want to have the option to go to the pistol first and still get PID Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SMC527: Originally Posted By 03RN: That's not the point. I quoted a statement saying he wants to PID before taking a shot which is why he wants a wml. I always carry a handheld as well. Even when I have a wml. I want to PID a threat before I draw. that was mostly directed toward an "in the home/Bump in the night" encounter I'm not going to search my home with a handheld But it's also a sliding scale, somewhat. Is there an unknown person 25' away addressing me in an aggressive manner-Handheld Is there an unknown person 10' adressing me in an aggressive manner-I want to have the option to go to the pistol first and still get PID True. I can definitely see times that you'd bypass a handheld. |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 4:31:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArizonaRifleman]
[#21]
Handhelds are great for when leaving the house for whatever if it's dark out. Or for your gear belts because of the unknown. But since I'm not a cop and can legally brandish if warranted and I can't, sometimes a handheld is great for the unknown. if the threat becomes real it can be easily dropped and the EDC drawn. But if somebody breaks into my home and my EDC with a light is on me, well ya shouldn't be there to begin with and there's going to be a lot more than brandishing after getting PID properly.
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Posted: 3/16/2022 10:03:46 PM EDT
[#22]
I don't. My bedside RailGun has a Surefire, but I don't carry one.
I have thought about it a lot, I just haven't tried it. I have SureFire Furys in both trucks, and on my Harley, hopefully I can get to one if I need it. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2022 12:16:36 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alaska511: I don't. My bedside RailGun has a Surefire, but I don't carry one. I have thought about it a lot, I just haven't tried it. I have SureFire Furys in both trucks, and on my Harley, hopefully I can get to one if I need it. Hope isn't a strategy. I strongly suggest either have a WML mounted on your carry gun or have a handheld somewhere on your person. |
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Posted: 4/17/2022 2:54:18 PM EDT
[#24]
WML and a handheld here.
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Posted: 4/25/2022 4:35:21 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creature: No light. No MRD. I'm dead but don't know it yet. Same here,but I usually have a hand held light |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2022 10:10:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M: Also, everyone eats up Cowan's video, but not too many even know the Ballistic Radio podcast with Chuck Haggard even exists. http://ballisticradio.com/2021/06/01/handgun-wmls-are-not-necessary-season-8-episode-344/ That was great, thank you. I carry a light separate from my gun, it’s more suitable for my lifestyle. Plus when it’s a practice endorsed by Chuck Haggard, Cecil Burch, and Darryl Bolke…
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Posted: 4/25/2022 1:20:29 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 4/26/2022 3:06:04 PM EDT
[#28]
So much derpy derp in here… if you are comfortable with a WML great at least carry a small flashlight. If you do get a WML unload your pistol and LARP around your house to get comfortable activating it using momentary activation. Figure out what works best for your activation, work out the bugs of activation under stress by use a shot time at the range, and just put in some effort of using it. A drill I do and it can be done in the day is to draw, activate the light on your target using momentary with the pistol aimed at the theoretical feet of your target and with the light on your target, and the press a shot or string of shots off then repeat. Also do some runs where you just draw and not fire but activate the light you do not want to train yourself every single time you draw and activate you fire.
To those who are against it that is ok but the reason you carry a handgun is that slim very off chance risk you might need it. Same goes for the light the chance you will need it is very low but it comes back to it is better to need it and have it than it is need it and not have it. Lights are relatively cheap and small/lightweight now days. They are kind of like dash cams probably will not need it but it could save you the cost of your deductible if you actually need it. Not going to name call or say someone’s decision is wrong but you should at least consider it and if at the end of it you think it is unnecessary then roll with that… maybe your mind will change mine has changed over the year around what gear I use. |
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Posted: 4/26/2022 4:53:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EdgecrusherXES: So much derpy derp in here… if you are comfortable with a WML great at least carry a small flashlight. If you do get a WML unload your pistol and LARP around your house to get comfortable activating it using momentary activation. Figure out what works best for your activation, work out the bugs of activation under stress by use a shot time at the range, and just put in some effort of using it. A drill I do and it can be done in the day is to draw, activate the light on your target using momentary with the pistol aimed at the theoretical feet of your target and with the light on your target, and the press a shot or string of shots off then repeat. Also do some runs where you just draw and not fire but activate the light you do not want to train yourself every single time you draw and activate you fire. To those who are against it that is ok but the reason you carry a handgun is that slim very off chance risk you might need it. Same goes for the light the chance you will need it is very low but it comes back to it is better to need it and have it than it is need it and not have it. Lights are relatively cheap and small/lightweight now days. They are kind of like dash cams probably will not need it but it could save you the cost of your deductible if you actually need it. Not going to name call or say someone’s decision is wrong but you should at least consider it and if at the end of it you think it is unnecessary then roll with that… maybe your mind will change mine has changed over the year around what gear I use. I always carry a handheld light as well the the WML. Sometimes I carry a single cell or 2 cell Surefire but I always have at least the Sidekick on my keys. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/23/2022 10:07:50 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Anthony94: I do, a tlr7 sub on a G48 or G19 with a tlr7A. I carry a little streamlight micro stream everyday as well. Same. My pocket light is a little AA zebralight. Only time I don’t carry a light is my g48 in a phlster enigma in gym shorts. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/23/2022 10:28:16 AM EDT
[#31]
G 19 with TLR7
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Posted: 6/6/2022 10:38:19 PM EDT
[#32]
I carry a hand held. Have considered adding a TLR7A to my Glock 19 though. For those carrying a Glock 19 and TLR7 does it increase the profile much when carried OWB? I carry mine in a Raven Perrun would probably get the same for the TLR7A.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2022 5:06:23 PM EDT
[#33]
No.
Not everything that needs light needs felonious assault. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 6:40:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack19: No. Not everything that needs light needs felonious assault. Having a light on your gun doesn't mean you cannot have other lights. In fact, it's encouraged. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 8:44:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: Having a light on your gun doesn't mean you cannot have other lights. In fact, it's encouraged. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: Originally Posted By Jack19: No. Not everything that needs light needs felonious assault. Having a light on your gun doesn't mean you cannot have other lights. In fact, it's encouraged. Nor is using a wml a felony if it's not trying to intimidate (brandishing) |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 8:50:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Nor is using a wml a felony if it's not trying to intimidate (brandishing) A fair point. You can even illuminate stuff without muzzling it with a WML. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 9:00:01 PM EDT
[#37]
People have had the cops called on them for even legally carrying in a holster or some of their CCW was seen by accident. Pretty sure those same karens will lie call it brandishing trying to use spill to illuminate.
It's why in the evening I add a handheld and even practice with it using the FBI technique once in awhile. I'm not going to give an anti gun karen or cuck of karen the satisfaction of a gotcha moment to swat me. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 9:08:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bcauz3y]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: People have had the cops called on them for even legally carrying in a holster or some of their CCW was seen by accident. Pretty sure those same karens will lie call it brandishing trying to use spill to illuminate. It's why in the evening I add a handheld and even practice with it using the FBI technique once in awhile. I'm not going to give an anti gun karen or cuck of karen the satisfaction of a gotcha moment to swat me. I'm not following your logic at all. 1. People can and will lie - regardless of how you equip your weapon. 2. If you're drawing a gun, you are very likely going to use it or at the least are in fear of your life - this is legal and no amount of Karen-ing changes that. 3. You aren't searching for your dropped keys with a wml. Again, you illuminate the thing that is threatening your safety. Should you need to illuminate other things with spill, you can. 4. If you're involved in a UoF incident, SWAT isn't even in play - local LE will be there because you will call them. 5. The idea that drawing a "regular" gun without a WML will NOT incite karenistic rage, but a gun equipped with a WML will do so is just baffling. You should really study light discipline and low light tactics. Rather, you guys should go take actual training instead of listening to us goofs on a gun forum. People often misunderstand the purpose of WMLs and various techniques such as the "FBI Technique". I don't have time to go into current dogma of white light usage, but suffice it to say you should always carry a handheld light and you should always have a WML. If you must sacrifice one, sacrifice the WML in favor of the handheld. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 9:19:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: I'm not following your logic at all. 1. People can and will lie - regardless of how you equip your weapon. 2. If you're drawing a gun, you are very likely going to use it or at the least are in fear of your life - this is legal and no amount of Karen-ing changes that. 3. You aren't searching for your dropped keys with a wml. Again, you illuminate the thing that is threatening your safety. Should you need to illuminate other things with spill, you can. 4. If you're involved in a UoF incident, SWAT isn't even in play - local LE will be there because you will call them. 5. The idea that drawing a "regular" gun without a WML will NOT incite karenistic rage, but a gun equipped with a WML will do so is just baffling. You should really study light discipline and low light tactics. Rather, you guys should go take actual training instead of listening to us goofs on a gun forum. People often misunderstand the purpose of WMLs and various techniques such as the "FBI Technique". I don't have time to go into current dogma of white light usage, but suffice it to say you should always carry a handheld light and you should always have a WML. If you must sacrifice one, sacrifice the WML in favor of the handheld.  Giant swing and a miss. You assumed too much of what I had said and added things that were not even spoken by me, and people that do this I have zero interest anymore in discussing with because it's their way or no other way at all, hard pass. Take care. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 9:21:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bcauz3y]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: Giant swing and a miss. You assumed too much of what I had said and added things that were not even spoken by me, and people that do this I have zero interest anymore in discussing with because it's their way or no other way at all, hard pass. Take care. Fascinating. Great conversation friend. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 9:21:40 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 7/5/2022 9:23:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DukeFan23: Current EDC https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/280357/A21D065F-D902-48B8-BFC5-E76D0EEEDA39_jpe-2442969.JPG How do you like the switchology of that light? |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 9:28:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DukeFan23]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: How do you like the switchology of that light? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: Originally Posted By DukeFan23: Current EDC https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/280357/A21D065F-D902-48B8-BFC5-E76D0EEEDA39_jpe-2442969.JPG How do you like the switchology of that light? I like it. Was already familiar with it as I have a TLRa on my G19. Can activate it with strong hand but mainly off hand thumb while using two handed grip. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 9:30:42 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DukeFan23: I like it. Was already familiar with it as I have a TLRa on my G19. Can activate it with strong hand but mainly off hand thumb while using two handed grip. Good to hear. I have two 48s as well with them, more for a lack of options than a love for the light. I'm a surefire guy, so this is a learning experience. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 6:24:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: Good to hear. I have two 48s as well with them, more for a lack of options than a love for the light. I'm a surefire guy, so this is a learning experience. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: Originally Posted By DukeFan23: I like it. Was already familiar with it as I have a TLRa on my G19. Can activate it with strong hand but mainly off hand thumb while using two handed grip. Good to hear. I have two 48s as well with them, more for a lack of options than a love for the light. I'm a surefire guy, so this is a learning experience. I struggled with buying a -7 because I'm a surefire guy too but I really like them. Even if you revert to swiping down like a surefire you'll still click it on. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 7:17:20 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: I struggled with buying a -7 because I'm a surefire guy too but I really like them. Even if you revert to swiping down like a surefire you'll still click it on. For sure, that's been my experience and I don't mind it too much. I do miss momentary on. |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 7/7/2022 12:29:17 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: For sure, that's been my experience and I don't mind it too much. I do miss momentary on. Assuming you're talking about the TLR-7, it does have momentary on. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 12:32:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Mfinaustin]
[#48]
No carry lights. I use muzzle flash to light my way.
Boomer Wilson Combat Vickers Elite in .45 mit der stendo. No rails and anything carried extra is going to be mags and ammo. Flashlight on my phone for post op review or the coroner will have one. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 6:54:24 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tt350z: Assuming you're talking about the TLR-7, it does have momentary on. Well, I'm an actual retard. It sure does. That'll take some getting used to. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 7:10:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TXJarhead]
[#50]
Tlr-1HL on my 17, 19, 20, 21, 23, and my suppressed P80 zev .22. I used it 2 nights ago when my wife went outside and saw a rodent scurrying on my back patio. I'm of the mindset that I'd rather have it and not need it, but that doesn't mean I have a pocket full of shit. I carry a small olight s1r baton II that's only 3" tall and provides several different levels of light up to 1000 lumens. I am often out after dark and see no reason whatsoever to not have one on my guns, but that's just me. You do you. Whatever that is.
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