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Posted: 9/6/2010 10:48:41 AM EDT
So I have been thinking a lot lately about how I arrived at my current setup for carry. I must say it has been an evolution and learning experience. I am writing this so those who read can move on in their evolution to what works best for them.

Mine began before I ever got my CHL when I carried in Iraq and Afghan. The holsters just never really cut it and left a lot to be desired I thought.... granted they worked just I always saw room for improvement but never had the time to work on developing something that worked better. So when I got back to the states and was physically able to I went and took my CHL because I wanted to be able to carry for the situation I always hope never happens to me or anyone.

So I started out carrying switching between 1911 Govt and Glock 32/27/30SF. Also during this time buying different types of holsters trying to find that perfect holster that just works for me 100% of the time. Balancing comfort, concealability, and not compromising accessibility in any way. For awhile I used crappy holsters, nylon, kydex, and leather finding that the leather is what works best for me. During this time I attempted many time to go IWB which for me is not always comfortable due to injuries I had sustained in Iraq. For me the easiest part has been the extra magazine it is the one part of my setup that has not changed because it works and is comfortable while being very accessible.

Currently I am working with two Galco holster style a OWB concealment holster which is my primary way of carry. When clothing does not permit going OWB and I have to carry IWB I switch to my Galco IWB Summer comfort which so far works well for me but I have to carry it in 430 to 5 or it is just painful when it is on my hip or carried at the appendix. I have found myself carrying my G32 most of all during the summer and my G30SF/1911 in the winter because I am skinny and the 30SF is so wide and the 1911 is large and prints very badly on me in light clothing. My G27 is my running carry piece I have a custom made belly holster that the pistol is carry at 430 on my lower back. It works very well and keeps accessibility exactly where it needs to be while staying well concealed.

So I would like to hear how others have progressed and evolved their carry rigs how did you arrive at your current setup. What worked and why ... what did not work and why. If you have pic of your old setup and your new setups post them. I think this can help others in their evolution because I hear so many starting with the really crappy holster setups and just eventually finding out the hard way like some of us did when we started out. I will sit here and say I learned all the hard way buying cheap holsters finding out they do not work and wasting money. So I hope others will chime in and share for others to learn from out mistakes.

Here is what I have been carrying for the summer, spring and fall months.



Link Posted: 9/6/2010 12:09:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 12:10:01 PM EDT by TexasRifleman]
My first carry holster was a POS Blackhawk leather IWB. SUCKED balls. Absolute POS.

Then I got an El Paso Saddlery Summer Cruiser (MS SSII clone) for my 1911, then a Leather Arsenal custom IWB along the same lines. Was using Fobus paddle mag carriers and Rocket Man Holsters mag carriers.

Now I'm using an El Paso Saddlery Summer Cruiser for my Glock 17. With a Fobus belt mag carrier.

Started out with a Kramer pocket holster for my 442, swapped my dad years ago for his El Paso Saddlery Pocket Max holster. Still using that.

Don't have a holster for my Kahr PM9, yet.

ETA:

I carry IWB 4:00 all year round, whenever I'm dressed.


Link Posted: 9/6/2010 7:00:00 PM EDT
I made the mistake of getting a cheap blackhawk and talk about having problems keeping it in position, comfort sucked, and just really did not work.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 7:50:35 PM EDT
Started off with a Comp-Tac 2 o clock holster for appendix carry. I quickly found out two things. Appendix carry is not for me and kydex is not for me... at least IWB anyways.

I went with a standard Galco summer comfort holster (Glock 27) and haven't looked back. Leather is comfortable against my body. I don't wear a lot of clothes per say since I am in hot Florida. Under Armour boxers, no undershirt. The holster rides against my skin and sees a lot of sweat. It's still going strong.

Mag carrier story here
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 4:41:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 4:44:59 AM EDT by Baldmonk]
I keep changing stuff all the time, but seem to always go back to the P7 PSP or Les Baer TRS both in a VM2 holster as that seems to be the most comfortable and easy to conceal, but I'm always trying new stuff.

Currently playing with a Sig P228 in a Comp-Tac infidel, because it is so easy to take the holster on and off and hides fairly well at 5 o'clock...... we will see if I stick to it.

I could never get any Glocks or HK USPs to work for me (not for the like of trying though), they are just so "FREAKING WIDE" that they are impossible to sucessfully hide. You might as well wear a sign that says "I AM CARRYING A GUN".
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:31:50 AM EDT
I haven't had much of an evolution just yet. I haven't been carrying for long enough I guess. I started out with an MTAC and I haven't deviated. I suppose the addition of nice belts was an evolution. A good gun belt makes all of the difference in the world in terms of comfort and concealability.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:16:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 8:19:58 AM EDT by all4freedom]
Great thread!

I knew as soon as I was old enough for my permit I was going to start carrying, so I wanted to get used to carrying beforehand.

First was a carry gun. I knew I wanted something that was large enough that I could train with it and shoot it all day, but compact enough that I could conceal it relatively easily. I wanted something that was affordable (as much as possible) to shoot and had decent magazine capacity. Enter, the Glock 19. I found unfired NYPD overstock guns at an online dealer who swapped the trigger back to a standard 5.5# for me. 3 mags and Trijicon nigh sights in the $450 range. I jumped on it. It was actually a joint Christmas present from my whole family which was very cool. If I could start over buying carry guns I would buy the exact same gun.

Next was a holster. I wanted something IWB but didn’t have $100 to spend on one since I was in college. Bladetech had their Glock Fits All holster (open bottom fits 26,19 and 17, etc.) on sale for $35 around Christmas so I bought that to try first. I also bought an Aker B21 leather belt with the polymer stiffener. The Bladetech worked fine for over a year, then I found a good deal on a Sidearmor and switched to it for a bit. Both had the same issues, I didn’t find them overly comfortable. After about 16 months of carry I tried this new “MTAC” holster and have never looked back. The Aker belt is going on 5 years old and except for scuffs in finish is still as sound as the day I bought it. Excellent belt for $40.

Somewhere along the line I tried the beloved VM2 and actually had it for the shortest amount of time out of any holster I’ve had. For the majority of people that carry at 4:00 with quite a bit of cant it may be good, but it sure didn’t work for me.

I have added some guns that make it in to the carry rotation on a limited basis. A Glock 30, Glock 26 and S&W 642. The 26 can be handy on warmer days and the 642 rides in a pocket some days on quick trips to the store, etc. I use a trimmed to fit Desantis Nemesis pocket holster or sometimes ankle carry in a Renegade. Best ankle holster on the market in my opinion.

For the newer carriers out there, do your research, buy the best you can afford, but buy once and cry once. I can’t believe I ever used those solid kydex IWB holsters because I just don’t find them comfortable compared to a hybrid design. Don’t be afraid of “the holster drawer”. Once you find what works best for you, the shopping spree will be over!

The first rig:



Current gear:



I think the monster sweatguard on the BT is going to get the band saw treatment.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:00:32 AM EDT
Maybe I'll evolve later.. got good advice on this forum at the very outset to get a MTAC and a good belt.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:11:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 1:15:34 PM EDT by AEnemaBay]

Originally Posted By all4freedom:
Great thread!

I knew as soon as I was old enough for my permit I was going to start carrying, so I wanted to get used to carrying beforehand.

First was a carry gun. I knew I wanted something that was large enough that I could train with it and shoot it all day, but compact enough that I could conceal it relatively easily. I wanted something that was affordable (as much as possible) to shoot and had decent magazine capacity. Enter, the Glock 19. I found unfired NYPD overstock guns at an online dealer who swapped the trigger back to a standard 5.5# for me. 3 mags and Trijicon nigh sights in the $450 range. I jumped on it. It was actually a joint Christmas present from my whole family which was very cool. If I could start over buying carry guns I would buy the exact same gun.

Next was a holster. I wanted something IWB but didn’t have $100 to spend on one since I was in college. Bladetech had their Glock Fits All holster (open bottom fits 26,19 and 17, etc.) on sale for $35 around Christmas so I bought that to try first. I also bought an Aker B21 leather belt with the polymer stiffener. The Bladetech worked fine for over a year, then I found a good deal on a Sidearmor and switched to it for a bit. Both had the same issues, I didn’t find them overly comfortable. After about 16 months of carry I tried this new "MTAC” holster and have never looked back. The Aker belt is going on 5 years old and except for scuffs in finish is still as sound as the day I bought it. Excellent belt for $40.

Somewhere along the line I tried the beloved VM2 and actually had it for the shortest amount of time out of any holster I’ve had. For the majority of people that carry at 4:00 with quite a bit of cant it may be good, but it sure didn’t work for me.

I have added some guns that make it in to the carry rotation on a limited basis. A Glock 30, Glock 26 and S&W 642. The 26 can be handy on warmer days and the 642 rides in a pocket some days on quick trips to the store, etc. I use a trimmed to fit Desantis Nemesis pocket holster or sometimes ankle carry in a Renegade. Best ankle holster on the market in my opinion.

For the newer carriers out there, do your research, buy the best you can afford, but buy once and cry once. I can’t believe I ever used those solid kydex IWB holsters because I just don’t find them comfortable compared to a hybrid design. Don’t be afraid of "the holster drawer”. Once you find what works best for you, the shopping spree will be over!

The first rig:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/adaman04/G19cropped2.jpg

Current gear:

http://i45.tinypic.com/bjc1gk.jpg

I think the monster sweatguard on the BT is going to get the band saw treatment.
Nice Rat's. I've been thinking of getting one for fixed blade carry but my Buck paklite skinner is doing pretty well.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:43:09 PM EDT
Went from a Galco FLETCH toand Uncle Mikes Kydex paddle to a Rocket Man Lowrider which is far and away the best holster I have used.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:05:38 PM EDT
I think this thread is really going to help others avoid buying those crap holsters that we all bought and move straight to a quality one that will serve them well.

I think the biggest mistake most and myself make on holsters in the beginning is we go for the cheap holster instead of the one that cost a little more and is made 110% better.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 5:31:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 6:09:27 PM EDT by 3rdpig]
My first half dozen carry rigs were all shoulder holsters, I lived in a much cooler climate than I do now and could easily wear a cover garment all year round. And black leather vests were as common in my crowd in those days as assholes at the DNC convention. My first few were Bianchi vertical shoulder holsters, and while they were great for revolvers, they sucked bigtime for auto loaders which were my preferred carry gun. The open front held together by a spring gripped a revolver around the cylinder really well, but had nothing to wrap around on the auto. My next shoulder holsters held the gun horizontally (oh teh noes!), I designed and made the holster part myself and used the strap system off the old Bianchi holsters. These were ugly, but worked incredibly well and I used them till I came to Arizona, where cover garments don't cut it for most of the year.

I went to IWB but at first hated it, uncomfortable, wobbly and too heavy. I finally gave up on full size steel pistols for IWB and went to a S&W 3913, then to a Glock 26. My first quality, two clip IWB holster (can't even remember who made it now) for the 3913 worked good, it was comfortable and held the gun solid. I've tried several holsters for the G26 and settled on a DeSantis Scorpion as it offers me a very good compromise between the retention I need for work days and the comfort I have to have for all day carry.

I've tried other holsters for other guns, what's worked well has been the Crossbreed Supertuck for my Glock 29 and an AKJ Concealco holster for my S&W 4553 TSW. But no matter what I go to, I keep coming back to the G26 and the Scorpion. Of all the requirements I have and need for a carry gun and holster, that combination keeps coming out on top.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:03:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 6:24:32 PM EDT by Cleatus-V]
My first experience back in the mid 90's was a Glock 22 that I attempted to carry OWB in a mediocre quality paddle holster (can't even remember the brand). It didn't take me long to figure out that didn't work worth crap and would only work for CCW if I was wearing a parka.

I then did a lot of horse trading (not much cash in those days) and got a 1911. I combined it with one of the old Blade Tech IWB holsters. A bit on the heavy side, but really a pretty deccent carry rig and carried it for several years. Eventually I looked to fix that which was not broken and wanted to start carrying something more "convenient" for warm weather carry. The convenience factor was a huge step down in firepower as that rig was a J-Frame 442 with either a belly band or a leather IWB holster.

I soon wanted something a little more robust than the 442, so I ended up with a SIG 239 9mm and paired it with a Kramer IWB. This was a fine little rig and I loved the SIG so I still regularly kick myself in the butt that I sold eventually sold it to fund other projects.

Then, I happened to get a Glock 19 as a counterpart to my Glock 17 (never did attempt to carry the G17). I decided the G19 suited the CCW bill just as well as any pistol in my locker, so why not carry it. I ended up going through 3 holsters of lesser quality/design before I finally decided to cut the bullshit and stop wasting time and money and get a horsehide Supertuck.

On days the G19 isn't appropriate for whatever reason, I'll front pocket carry a LCP with CT Laserguard.

The G19 is still my EDC, with no plans to make any changes in the immediate future. Sometimes I get the bug for a new pistol, but then realize the cost of spare mags, holster, mag carrier, etc adds up and the feeling goes away. I've got a CCW rig that works great, and I've learned my lessons in the past on making changes just for the heck of it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:13:51 PM EDT
I bought my carry gun before my permit so I had plenty of time to think and research the holster issue. Have to admit I didn't put much thought into my carry gun, went to look for a Glock, saw a Kimber and came home with it never having considered a 1911 before. Not much evolving first and only IWB was a Cross Breed Super Tuck. Later on I picked up a new G23 at a good price and bought another ST for it.

Carry the Kimber most days. When wife and I go on trips I take the G23, she has one as well and I figure KISS applies in this situation.
Still looking for an OWB holster to carry in this winter, I hate to think how long it would take to drag an IWB gun out from under all the clothes my cold natured ass wears in cold weather
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:25:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 7:26:22 PM EDT by EdgecrusherXES_45]
Originally Posted By PKRobbins:
I bought my carry gun before my permit so I had plenty of time to think and research the holster issue. Have to admit I didn't put much thought into my carry gun, went to look for a Glock, saw a Kimber and came home with it never having considered a 1911 before. Not much evolving first and only IWB was a Cross Breed Super Tuck. Later on I picked up a new G23 at a good price and bought another ST for it.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/bjfergpls/shooting/064.jpg
Carry the Kimber most days. When wife and I go on trips I take the G23, she has one as well and I figure KISS applies in this situation.
Still looking for an OWB holster to carry in this winter, I hate to think how long it would take to drag an IWB gun out from under all the clothes my cold natured ass wears in cold weather


You might try the Galco Concealment holster that I had my G32 in up ^ there it is comfortable and easy to access under heavy cloths. I have one for my G32 and one for my 1911 at first it will suck till you get it broke in then you will love it. The first two weeks I only carried it around the house "unloaded" periodically practicing drawing and breaking it in. I learned ways to and not to draw with that holster and got extremely good with it. Me and that holster have been through hell and it had to get replaced after I had to change a tire for this really hot girl in the rain who is not my ex g/f because she wanted to get married (Do not worry I replaced the holster). Note to self when they start talking about marriage it is time to cut them loose and when the holster gets drenched and you let it dry out wrong it is time to cut it loose also.

ETA I was more disappointed about the holster than when we broke up later on.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 3:42:03 AM EDT
My carry rig started off to a bad start. I was sold into a blackhawk pancake style leather holster with snaps that was OWB. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Than realized that it was a waste of money. After getting more into handguns taking classes and the like I picked up a MTAC which I still have and use for that same 1911. Well I than added into a flash light. It seemed like a smart idea and it really has probably been the best money I have spent. I use it more than anything else. I than got tired of having to carry so many spare mags of the 1911, plus it is heavy to carry in the summer in Vegas. So I switched to my XDm in .40 and that seemed to work well. I was carrying more rounds with 2 mags than I was before with 3. I would switch between the two depending on what I was wearing. The .40 round doesn't bother me and all modern age rounds as long as it higher quality will get the job done. Finally after that I broke down and bought a SOG blade for a EDC piece. And while its not that big it gets the job done for now. Sadly NV is limited on the size blade you can carry like that. And 3" or less sucks.

Lastly I ended up getting away from the .40 and switching to a 9. Really I switched to the .40 for more rounds and a lighter load. But after picking up my M&P9 I knew I was going to switch again. I can fire great groups, the gun isnt super heavy, I am very comfortable with it. One other big thing is that after reading a lot of stories of guys that have been in fire fights there were things I wanted on my carry piece. The external safety to me seemed like something I could do without. I understand the differences of having it and not. I also wanted a high cap. Having the loaded chamber indicator wasnt really something I needed, but its nice to have just cause.I am looking into which IWB holster for the M&P and it will probably be my new EDC gun. I am still looking into good OWB holsters as well. All in all I have changed things up quite a bit since I started.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:55:13 AM EDT
Went from this:


To this:


To this:

Glock 19. 124g+p gold dots

I still carry the Colt Detective Special in my pocket when its warm out and a Keltec P3AT in the gym.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:14:17 PM EDT
Wilson Summer Companion for a 1911 is where I started and ended. Perfect.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:45:06 PM EDT
I started with a 1911 because that's all I knew. I quickly discovered that I prefer IWB because it keeps the pistol tucked in, and every time I carried OWB I would catch the butt end of the gun on whatever I was trying to squeeze by. I also liked the fact that IWB meant I didn't need an all new wardrobe to hide the heat. I also experimented with some double stack pistols. The Para P-14, G30, P99, P226, and P229 all came and went as carry pieces. Some I still have as range toys, some I don't. Then I got a J frame. That 340PD completley ruined my life as far as ease of carry. There is absoutly nothing that my J frame won't drop in to, and stay completly concealed in. Suddenly everything else was too big, too heavy, and just too much to dress around. I got a screaming deal on my HK45 so I figured why not. I ended up trading it for the HK45c because it's just a tad too big for me to conceal easily. The 45c is the right size, weight, balance, caliber, etc, for me. In the meantime, I discovered that I can carry OWB, it just needs to be a high rise holster. The moral of the story is I didn't make any of my carry decisions based on 'hive logic', or other internet advice. I found what worked for me, not what worked for someone else. I still carry my J frame about 70% of the time because it's just too dam convienent, and I'm not looking for trouble. Whatever it is you carry, ALWAYS carry a reload.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:22:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:
I started with a 1911 because that's all I knew. I quickly discovered that I prefer IWB because it keeps the pistol tucked in, and every time I carried OWB I would catch the butt end of the gun on whatever I was trying to squeeze by. I also liked the fact that IWB meant I didn't need an all new wardrobe to hide the heat. I also experimented with some double stack pistols. The Para P-14, G30, P99, P226, and P229 all came and went as carry pieces. Some I still have as range toys, some I don't. Then I got a J frame. That 340PD completley ruined my life as far as ease of carry. There is absoutly nothing that my J frame won't drop in to, and stay completly concealed in. Suddenly everything else was too big, too heavy, and just too much to dress around. I got a screaming deal on my HK45 so I figured why not. I ended up trading it for the HK45c because it's just a tad too big for me to conceal easily. The 45c is the right size, weight, balance, caliber, etc, for me. In the meantime, I discovered that I can carry OWB, it just needs to be a high rise holster. The moral of the story is I didn't make any of my carry decisions based on 'hive logic', or other internet advice. I found what worked for me, not what worked for someone else. I still carry my J frame about 70% of the time because it's just too dam convienent, and I'm not looking for trouble. Whatever it is you carry, ALWAYS carry a reload.


Good advice but also I think a lot of people start in the wrong place and if someone gives them advice to start in a better place they will arrive at the setup that works for them faster and save tons of money.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:35:55 PM EDT
For the most part I agree with looking at what others have had success with (or not). Where I got sidetracked was with the whole high cap thing. I finally figured out that what I like is a 1911ish type psitol. This includes the P220, HK45, M&P45, and other single stack S&W's. The HK's are stack and a half, but they feel and carry like a single stack. I prefer to pocket carry my magazines in the summer (cargo shorts), and have found some good horrizontal mag carriers from Safriland. As always YMMV, anthough high caps are sure fun at the range.

Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES_45:
Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:
I started with a 1911 because that's all I knew. I quickly discovered that I prefer IWB because it keeps the pistol tucked in, and every time I carried OWB I would catch the butt end of the gun on whatever I was trying to squeeze by. I also liked the fact that IWB meant I didn't need an all new wardrobe to hide the heat. I also experimented with some double stack pistols. The Para P-14, G30, P99, P226, and P229 all came and went as carry pieces. Some I still have as range toys, some I don't. Then I got a J frame. That 340PD completley ruined my life as far as ease of carry. There is absoutly nothing that my J frame won't drop in to, and stay completly concealed in. Suddenly everything else was too big, too heavy, and just too much to dress around. I got a screaming deal on my HK45 so I figured why not. I ended up trading it for the HK45c because it's just a tad too big for me to conceal easily. The 45c is the right size, weight, balance, caliber, etc, for me. In the meantime, I discovered that I can carry OWB, it just needs to be a high rise holster. The moral of the story is I didn't make any of my carry decisions based on 'hive logic', or other internet advice. I found what worked for me, not what worked for someone else. I still carry my J frame about 70% of the time because it's just too dam convienent, and I'm not looking for trouble. Whatever it is you carry, ALWAYS carry a reload.


Good advice but also I think a lot of people start in the wrong place and if someone gives them advice to start in a better place they will arrive at the setup that works for them faster and save tons of money.


Link Posted: 9/8/2010 8:47:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 8:48:20 PM EDT by Rocksarge]
my current favorite kit is:

Kimber Covert Custom II w/ a spare wilson 47d or two in a Crossbreed Supertuck Delexe (made for HK45) have a Milt Sparks VMII on order.
Sog Flash II knife or Izula
Surefire 6P LED Defender
Fox Labs Pepper Spray

I have a PF9 on order for when I want a lighter rig in hot weather.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:21:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 5:23:03 AM EDT by kaneroy]
I started off with a Black Hawk Serpa and a G23, no reload. moved to a MTAC with a 4" 1911 at 4:30 and one reload. then I took my first class and moved the rig to 3:00 and got a commander length gun, added a light(surefire backup) in my support side pocket. took a active shooter class and moved to a Raven Phantom OWB. currently saving my penny's for a railed gun so I can have a weapon light attached.
edit: added a Wilderness belt before my first class and a CompTac belt shortly after.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 6:26:11 PM EDT
Got my first CCW permit in 1994
Started off with a Glock 21 in a cheap IWB nylon holster.

Changed to a Glock 23 in a Kramer horse hide belt holster for a few years.

Changed to a Sig P239 40SW in a bladetech belt holster for a couple years.

Changed to a Glock 26 in a Kramer horsehide holster. Several years back i started using a Fobus paddle holster instead for ease of donning and doffing. I know people hate on Fobus, and i would never open carry in one. But for a a CCW holster i love the Fobus paddle holster and a Glock 26 with 12+1 Fed 147Gn HST is enough gun for most situations.

Also have a Glock 19, SW442 and LCP on my CCW permit.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:07:35 PM EDT
I started out running the tuck-this holster for my full size .45ACP and have been using it since, I use the concealed carry underarmor for my sub compact .45ACP and a standard no name ankle rig for my .38. Donno just kept to what I liked in the beginning. I have switched to running my primary in a blackhawk thigh rig though.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 9:06:58 PM EDT
I started with a cheap, uncomfortable as hell kydex IWB holster. Moved to a smart carry, and eventually started using a Crossbreed supertuck. I have stuck with the supertuck ever since and I love it for my G19.

Recently (I need to post photos) I did a custom 'combat cut' on my crossbreed and its nearly perfect it now. Before I had issues getting a good grip on the G19 when drawing (only was able to get my 4th and 5th digit around the grip) since doing some cutting with a razor it still looks great but I can draw directly to a firing grip.
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