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Page AK-47 » Russian
Posted: 3/29/2006 9:30:20 PM EDT
Hey everyone, first post here and im very excited that i am gettinga vepr in a few months (once they are available in the usa). I have a few questions.

I am interested in the 7.62x39mm chamber
folding stock
slotted foregrip
ability to thread a suppressor onto the barrel
16.5 inch barrel

I am thinking this will cost about 700, not including barrel threading work.

Also, is there any merit to having someobe like krebscustoms modify the gun to make it more accurate or better in some way?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 3:56:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 3:58:31 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By oldunion:
Hey everyone, first post here and im very excited that i am gettinga vepr in a few months (once they are available in the usa). I have a few questions.

I am interested in the 7.62x39mm chamber
folding stock
slotted foregrip
ability to thread a suppressor onto the barrel
16.5 inch barrel

I am thinking this will cost about 700, not including barrel threading work.

Also, is there any merit to having someobe like krebscustoms modify the gun to make it more accurate or better in some way?



Check your local laws to make SURE you can own a rifle with a 16" or longer barrel that has an overall length of under 30". A Vepr K with a folding stock will measure between 26" and 30" OAL and that is considered a pistol in MI. Your local state laws will vary of course but most states allow anything over 26" as long as you have a 16" barrel.

Robinson will not thread your muzzle. Krebs will do it, but the Krebs won't be significantly more accurate than whatever you get from Robinson. Krebs does some great stuff to the Vepr / Saiga (rear aperture sight, front sight moved onto gas block, etc...) but if you want better precision you can just pick up a scope and a solid scope mount for the Vepr.

Molot was recently seized by Izmash, so I would not expect many Veprs to be shipped over to the US. I was not too impressed with the accuracy of the Vepr K in 7.62x39 (was only getting a minimum of about 2" groups at 100 yd using good ammo) but it is a fairly solid AK variant, but not for $700.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:47:19 AM EDT
I don't think you are going to get all of that and be anywhere near $700.

I've sold a lot of Veprs. In 2005 we were Robarms 2nd largest dealer. Towards the end, before Robarms ran out of them, Alex raised the price on the new guns by $100 each, which put them into the $600 range.

The slotted handguards were a $50 option. (if I recall correctly).

The folding stock was approximately a $200 option. No that isn't a typo. I belive it was $180. And even then, I don't know if Robarm had actually sold any of them yet.

A good smith with the right tools will usually charge around $80 or so to thread a barrel. If you're going to suppress, make sure whoever threads your barrel knows what they're doing. The threads have to be exact, because if it is off in the slightest, you will get baffle strikes.

When the new guns come in, I'm not betting on them being nearly the price they were before. Which sucks, because my customized 7.62 Vepr is my favorite rifle. And in the $500 range I could sell Veprs all day, but in the $700+ range, that ain't gonna happen.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:00:17 AM EDT
I've been trying to think up ways of cutting slots into my handguard in a manner that looks professional. The stock furniture is very hefty if you remove them and put them in your hand. I didn't weigh them, but the front handguard weighs almost as much or more than the collapsible stocks on the AR15.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:32:07 PM EDT
Well thats bad news about the new shipment of vepr's, which im taking it may not happen at all now....?

Is their a make of ak47 that is comparable to the vepr k? it really has everything i was looking for.

I would probably have krebs do all the work to the gun, so it was done right. Thread, accurize, etc.

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:32:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 4:32:22 PM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By oldunion:
Well thats bad news about the new shipment of vepr's, which im taking it may not happen at all now....?

Is their a make of ak47 that is comparable to the vepr k? it really has everything i was looking for.

I would probably have krebs do all the work to the gun, so it was done right. Thread, accurize, etc.




I never understood why the Veprs were known as "the most accurate AK". There's nothing there to make them more accurate. A magazine did a test on the Vepr K in 7.62x39 and was getting groups at 100 yd similar to a $300 WASR.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:53:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By oldunion:
Well thats bad news about the new shipment of vepr's, which im taking it may not happen at all now....?

Is their a make of ak47 that is comparable to the vepr k? it really has everything i was looking for.

I would probably have krebs do all the work to the gun, so it was done right. Thread, accurize, etc.




I never understood why the Veprs were known as "the most accurate AK". There's nothing there to make them more accurate. A magazine did a test on the Vepr K in 7.62x39 and was getting groups at 100 yd similar to a $300 WASR.



Don't believe everything you read.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:45:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 2:44:49 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By MST2:

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By oldunion:
Well thats bad news about the new shipment of vepr's, which im taking it may not happen at all now....?

Is their a make of ak47 that is comparable to the vepr k? it really has everything i was looking for.

I would probably have krebs do all the work to the gun, so it was done right. Thread, accurize, etc.




I never understood why the Veprs were known as "the most accurate AK". There's nothing there to make them more accurate. A magazine did a test on the Vepr K in 7.62x39 and was getting groups at 100 yd similar to a $300 WASR.



Don't believe everything you read.



I have the Vepr K in 7.62x39 and see nothing there that would "accurize" it nor do I see anything you can really do to "accurize" it.
All they did was use a RPK heavy barrel and cut it short at 16.5" (or 20" for the Vepr II).
I am not sure what Krebs does to "accurize" the Vepr, but I have heard positive things about his KTR-03S/V rifles. He installs a rear A2-style aperture sight near the eye at the dust cover, and moves the front post to the gas block. He threads the barrel and installs a flash suppressor.

Even if he free floats the barrel, there will be off-axis forces acting on the barrel through the gas tube.

I shot all kinds of 7.62x39 (good brass cased ammo to the Russian ammo) and the best groups were about 0.5"-1" at 50 yd using ammo that you can no longer buy.

The biggest things you can do to improve accuracy on an AK rifle:
1). Sights / optics
2). Trigger
3). Practice
4). Recrown muzzle and don't use the steel cleaning rod
5). Don't shoot for groups using Wolf

I can't justify spending more than $600 on any AK-variant.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:24:31 AM EDT
Vepr's are worth every penny, and so are Arsenal's IMO. Except the SAS M7 is overpriced, I guess becuase of the milled reciever and underfolder.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:27:34 AM EDT
I've seen parts-kit AKs and WASRs out shoot Veprs at the range.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:57:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By oldunion:
Well thats bad news about the new shipment of vepr's, which im taking it may not happen at all now....?

Is their a make of ak47 that is comparable to the vepr k? it really has everything i was looking for.

I would probably have krebs do all the work to the gun, so it was done right. Thread, accurize, etc.




I never understood why the Veprs were known as "the most accurate AK". There's nothing there to make them more accurate. A magazine did a test on the Vepr K in 7.62x39 and was getting groups at 100 yd similar to a $300 WASR.




I do not believe they tried to say that. I have two Veprs and a Global trades 1.6mm reciever and the WASR is lucky to hit a pie plate at 100yrds 9mine any way) and I get about 2" with Wolf when it was still available and my .223K is better than my 7.62 20".


oldunion,

Because of the availability of the Vepr now (I sure hope that changes) I would recomend the Global trades with a 1.6mm reciever, Arsenal, or Vector rifles or get a Saiga and convert it. I hope that the companie in Russia that took them over is going to make the Vepr since it is better than anything they were making even though I like the Saigas the Veprs are much nicer rifles.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 11:01:48 AM EDT
Izmash is like THE source for Russian AKs now... IIRC they manufacture the AK-100 series of rifles along with the Abakan AN-94:


The question becomes, will Izmash start exporting sporter rifles to the US, and who will convert the sporter rifles into evil configurations with the proper US parts count?

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:48:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 5:52:10 AM EDT by PvtPyle]
Izmash already is. The Saigas. And Tromix is leading the pack in the conversions to pistol grip and either solid or folding stocks.

The Tromix conversions with the folder can be had for around $730 right now.

As for the AN-94, chances are that you will never see one in the US, or even parts kits
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:32:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 6:38:48 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By PvtPyle:
Izmash already is. The Saigas. And Tromix is leading the pack in the conversions to pistol grip and either solid or folding stocks.

The Tromix conversions with the folder can be had for around $730 right now.

As for the AN-94, chances are that you will never see one in the US, or even parts kits



I am well aware of the AN-94 never hitting the US civilian market due to several reasons. I merely used the AN-94 as an example of what the latest rifles are that are coming out of Izmash (for the Russian military at least).

It looks like the first batch of Tromix Saigas are the .308s:

At least they take 20rd mags.

If Tromix keeps/adds evil features to the imported sporters and keeps the price below $600 USD, I predict good sales. They should thread the muzzles for the no-ban states and it looks like the 308 Saiga has the rear aperture sight on the dust cover (ala Krebs) with a thread muzzle and a folding stock. The fact it also takes 20rd mags puts it in the same category as a Krebs Custom KTR-03S but at half the price.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:32:58 AM EDT
The 20rd mag is a proto type, it is not ready for sale yet. Tromix is working thru the guns we have in the shop now and will then begin working on a reliable conversion. He has G3, FAL and M14 mags to work with to see which ones work the best.

As for what is ready, all rifle calibers are ready and we have them in hand right now. We also have the 12ga conversions being done now. The prices range from $625 to $725 depending on rifle caliber and features added. And sales have been EXCELLENT at those prices.

The AN-94 is not in widespread production or issue. It has had a lot of problems in the field trials. At this point our factory rep says that they doubt it will go into full production.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:36:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:37:14 AM EDT by metroplex]
What about some of the AK-100 series clones? Are they going to hit the states? I've seen some of the furniture sets and a few conversions but they're not as widespread.

I'm looking mainly for:
fixed stock (shorter LOP like M4 stock fully collapsed) - a folder + 16" = pistol in MI (registration)
threaded muzzles - set-screws and press/weld/pinned will not do.
rear aperture sight
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:21:25 AM EDT
The shortest stock you can get for them that I have seen is the issued length. That is what is going on all the guns now. We have discussed threading the muzzles, with the current guns there is a cap over the muzzle that is part of the front sight base. We would have to pull the FSB and cut that part off, and then thread the barrel. It can be done, that is not a problem. The rear drum sight is a standard option for the Tromix conversions, nothing unusual there.
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