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Page AK-47 » Russian
Posted: 2/6/2006 11:26:24 AM EDT
I just ordered a 19" 12ga. KOOOOL!!!!! It should be here tomorrow!!!!

They told me they have .410's, 12ga's and 308's IN STOCK NOW. Yeah baby!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 2:16:13 PM EDT
How much?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:55:17 PM EDT
Well, I'm a dealer and other dealers may not like me posting exactly but let's just say that with shipping and my CC 2% fee it was well under $400.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 8:02:49 PM EDT
Threaded?

Bolt Hold Open?


Link Posted: 2/7/2006 9:20:40 AM EDT
I have no friggin' clue! All I know is that thye are 19" so I bought one! All the ones they had were the same, whatever that is. I keep trying to find out what "variants" are available and I can't. Do you know? What versions of 12ga Saiga's exist?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:26:57 PM EDT
The Gun Source just called me and is shipping today too. Can't wait for the next 3-Gun match!!!
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 3:16:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 762hurts:
Threaded?

Bolt Hold Open?


hinking.gif



I dont think any in this first shippment have a BHO. Ive been told later this year thier will be some imported if you want to wait. I belive they are threaded. Retail prices look to be around $400 + shipping and ffl transfer if needed.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:20:01 PM EDT
That sounds about fair on the retail pricing. Any higher might be considered "unfair".

HEY.........question...........so if mine is 19" does that mean it will have the externally threaded barrel w/ choke attachment or WHAT??? What should I expect to receive??

Thanks!!!!
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 9:47:20 AM EDT
I just received the Saiga 12 and put three rds of #4 BK and two Brenneke slugs through it and it is SWEET.

19" bbl and it IS threaded on the end. Cool!!!!!! The funny thing?? It's dated 2000 on the receiver.

This is going to make a great conversion.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 2:22:27 PM EDT
You better remeasure that 19" barrel my friend.

You will find that it is actually 17.2".

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 2:39:51 PM EDT
Sounds about .8 too short.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 3:23:09 PM EDT
Yes, there is a very large goat rope in the making.

It's gonna be a mess unfucking this deal.



Link Posted: 2/10/2006 3:54:43 PM EDT
Goodluck everybody!
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:01:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 6:15:03 PM EDT by KogaShuko]
Got mine coming in monday guess I better go get it before they wont xfer it to me. Gona fix it but will see if the offer a solution or resolution first. Either that or I will just file a form 1.

ROFL leave it to the russians.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:20:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
Got mine coming in monday guess I better go get it before they wont xfer it to me. Gona fix it but will see if the offer a solution or resolution first. Either that or I will just file a form 1.

ROFL leave it to the russians.



I would hold off on a fix till there is a ruling...you may have to send it back regaurdless of what you do. Damn Russians and RAA are a bunch of asshats
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:52:27 PM EDT
I know............I posted about this on the Saiga-12 forum. But if you measure from the back of the barrel "extensions" it's the right length. I'll bet that's EXACTLY what the Russians did. From the in-battery bolt face...........it's too short. Going to be interesting.

Asshats..........that's a good word.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:56:52 PM EDT
Ruh roh.

Guess I'm still waiting then.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 10:21:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomovich:
I know............I posted about this on the Saiga-12 forum. But if you measure from the back of the barrel "extensions" it's the right length. I'll bet that's EXACTLY what the Russians did. From the in-battery bolt face...........it's too short. Going to be interesting.

Asshats..........that's a good word.



I would blame the importer first, not the Russians.

Importers tell the factory what they want, not vise versa. Importers inspect the samples to ensure they meet the standards. Importers check them before they ship them to make sure they are correct.

Link Posted: 2/11/2006 2:19:43 AM EDT
MAybe for some odd reason the ATF let them count the receiver extention. Dont they normally have to check the stuff too when it is imported?
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:49:19 AM EDT
Here's the legal definitions that the BATFE goes by:

27CFR479-- PART 479--MACHINE GUNS, DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AND CERTAIN OTHER FIREARMS
Firearm. (a) A shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18
inches in length; (b) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as
modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or
barrels of less than 18 inches in length; © a rifle having a barrel or
barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (d) a weapon made from a rifle
if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches
or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (e) any other
weapon, as defined in this subpart; (f) a machine gun; (g) a muffler or
a silencer for any firearm whether or not such firearm is included
within this definition; and (h) a destructive device. The term shall not
include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machine gun or
destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Director
finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other
characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be
used as a weapon. For purposes of this definition, the length of the
barrel having an integral chamber(s) on a shotgun or rifle shall be
determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of
the bolt, breech, or breech block when closed and when the shotgun or
rifle is cocked.
The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or
rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured
along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.

Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:28:25 AM EDT
Everyone needs to calm down. This is NOT the first time this has happened, and the ATF did not decide that the others were NFA weapons and had them recalled or destroyed. There were a boat load of HK-53's that were brought in that had 15" bbls on them and the ATF said, you have 60 days to weld the flash hider on. It was as simple as that.

I am going to meet with RAAC in about 20 minutes, and we are going over to the ATF booth and explain the problem and ask for them to render a position letter on it and we will get it fixed.

For those that are wondering how this happened to some guns, but not others, part of the shipment is left overs from the EAA days. The others are newer manufacture, and these have the problem. It is simply a matter of the Russians not understanding our laws and the way things work over here. It is not an issue of them trying to screw over their new market and cost everyone money, and it is not an issue of RAAC just sending them out knowing that there was a problem. Sure, lets just send them out and screw over all our customers, while we open ourselves up to all kinds of legal issues and additional expenses that could bankrupt the company Yeah, that makes lots of sense.

As I said, everyone needs to calm down, and let the ATF and Importers work it out. I will post a new thread from the ATF booth and let everyone kn ow what their response is, and how the situation is going to be fixed.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:50:09 PM EDT
OK, Here it is.

We just spoke with ATF, we are actually using their table to write this.... This is an easy fix to the problem according to Rick Vasquez from Tech Branch. If you have a saiga of any kind, from any importer, you need to measure the barrel and fix it.

Measure the barrel from the bolt face closed to the end of the barrel with the choke off.

IF you have a gun that is out of spec, call your local plumber and have him silver solder it on, or weld it in place. Do not call the ATF and freak out about it. Do not call your local PD and freak out about it. Just fix it. The ATF is not as concerned about the violations on the holders end, they just want them fixed. We are dealing with the import and sales violations now. That is what they are concerned about.

IF you have a gun that is out of spec, regardless of who you got it from or when you got it, please email it to us ( sales@fbmginc.com) or call it in to us so we can compile it for the Russian plant and address the quality control issue. Please do not waste your time or ours by posting the number here

IF you have a gun that is out of spec and got it from us we will make it right. We do not yet know how, we are working with RAAC on that. If you have a gun in question and want the removeable choke, we will exchange the gun for you. Please contact us directly for this.

We all have seen how the ATF operates, and how things can change in the agency. This is what they are saying today, so take advantage of it and do what you need to do and we can address things on our end once everyone is clear of any issues. The ATF will be addressing this in writing very shortly, so again, do what you have to do RIGHT NOW. If you choose to wait for any other kind of resolution, more than likely it will become YOUR problem. Again, if you fix it now we will do what we can to fix your problem once everyone is clear.

Thanks,
FBMG
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:59:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 4:00:40 PM EDT by Tomovich]
That IS excellent news. So that means I can silver solder on my original choke and then swap to an Izhmash made attachment after doing a 922 compliant conversion. Cool!

Excellent news.........thanks for working on this for and from all of us PvtPyle............
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 2:10:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 2:11:04 PM EDT by KogaShuko]
Can you ask them if we have the option to register it as an SBS?

Thanks a lot for the help.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 4:30:15 PM EDT
Koga, you can, but you need to get it into the hands of an SOT RIGHT AWAY! If you want us to, we can do it for you. Contact me offline.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:03:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 5:13:05 PM EDT by KogaShuko]
Thanks, I will have to see if mine is out of spec when I get it. With any luck it will not be.

Better yet. I will fix it first thing and then figure out about registering it as an SBS
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 2:13:18 PM EDT
They had a bunch of Saigas at a local gunshow in a neighboring town today. The rifles in 7.62 were selling for $290, and in .308 for $360. The guy said he was a Vepr dealer, but since none had arrived in the country yet, he picked up a bunch of Saigas instead.
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