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Posted: 4/10/2006 11:42:13 AM EDT
Hey all!

Looking for feedback on a few different handguard options:

TDI polymer upper/lower HG. These appear to be semi-hard plastic with no heat shield or metal reinforcements. How stable is the upper HG with the optics rail? Does the optic keep its zero, and does the rail sit low enough to allow co-witnessing with the iron sights? Does either the upper or lower piece suffer any flex, softening or other damage from barrel heating?

Veriforce Tactical aluminum railed lower HG. Saw one of these mounted to a rifle on MattSKS' table at Knob Creek, and it was angled down relative to the receiver & bore. Looked really bad. Is this normal, or was it just installed incorrectly (wrong receiver adapter maybe)?

Krebs Custom quad picatinny mount. Any feedback on these?

Pics of rifles wearing the above options would also be appreciated.

Thanks!

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 3:52:08 PM EDT
its an AK dude
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:34:25 PM EDT
i second that, IF you dare put a rail on it, the only option in my opinion is the Ultimak as it is the most solid mount, short of the siderail on the reciever
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:30:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
i second that, IF you dare put a rail on it, the only option in my opinion is the Ultimak as it is the most solid mount, short of the siderail on the reciever



If I "dare"? I'm not afraid of the AK fashion police.

I've owned an Ultimak scout mount before; it was solid enough, but heating was an issue. I'd consider it again, but I thought I'd solicit feedback on some of the newer offerings as well. I don't care much for the Ultimak lower HG (the way it fits, or the price), but would like something on which to mount a VFG.

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:15:40 PM EDT
Im not too sure about a VFG on an AK, if you go to change a magazine the mag will bump the VFG when attempting to remove it. The only solution to this problem is to mount the VFG uncomfortably far forward to clear the mag change. Or i belive Krebbs makes a VFG that mounts to one of the 2 side rails on the Handguard so that the mag can clear the VFG. Either way, i still think the system just isnt ideal for the AK platform. Its not an AR, and i really dont see the point of screwing and glueing all that stuff onto it only to have it still shoot 4 inch groups. But hey, ur rifle, ur decision.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 11:44:32 PM EDT
I have some of the TDI ones but havent had a chance to test them
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:44:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
Im not too sure about a VFG on an AK, if you go to change a magazine the mag will bump the VFG when attempting to remove it.



Gun in question is a -74. I don't think this would be an issue with the straighter 5.45 mag profile.


Its not an AR, and i really dont see the point of screwing and glueing all that stuff onto it only to have it still shoot 4 inch groups.


I didn't put a VFG on my AR to make it shoot tighter groups...
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:48:32 AM EDT
"...it's not an AR." (heard that one alot before)
BUT, what it is is a proven platform with a reliable operating system that fires an effective 5.45x39mm cartridge. what's wrong with the guy making it user-friendly then?

the Krebs appears to be tank-like in build, and with that much aluminum, will draw agoodly deal of heat from the barrel. the upper rail doesnt mount on the gas tube, but would still have to be removed in order to remove the gas tube, so rezero capability would be hampered.

http://www.krebscustom.com/MainPhoto-800.jpg

the veriforce rail you mentioned even looks to have a forward cant in the imges on their own website......

the TDI polymer has only one position to mount accessories at 3, 9 o'clock, so you are limited in your placement of grips, etc. and perhaps your shooting comfort.



TDI also makes a 5 rail aluminum system.
http://www.tdi-arms.com/images/large.php?id=250&num=2


IMO, the best set-up would be a tri-rail forearm, such as the Krebs, coupled with a receiver-side-mounted optic, like a Kobra. that way, you can strip the weapon, even the gas tube to clean, without removing the optic. your irons will still be useful as back-ups



Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:21:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:47:57 AM EDT


the TDI polymer has only one position to mount accessories at 3, 9 o'clock, so you are limited in your placement of grips, etc. and perhaps your shooting comfort.



Wouldn't be an issue for me; I don't plan to use side rails.


IMO, the best set-up would be a tri-rail forearm, such as the Krebs, coupled with a receiver-side-mounted optic, like a Kobra. that way, you can strip the weapon, even the gas tube to clean, without removing the optic. your irons will still be useful as back-ups


I considered this. I have an OKO on a "made in Belarus" side mount that I use with my Saiga-12 and a 4x scope in a Russian side mount that I use with my Romy -74, but I'm not entirely happy with them. The low mount obscures the iron sights, and the high mount makes getting a decent cheekweld impossible. Neither side rail setup allows co-witnessing of the irons with the dot sight, like a forward mounted system does. Plus, the gun I'm shopping for has a left-side folder, and I'd rather not have to dismount the optic every time I want to fold the stock. So that pretty much rules those out.

I might just go with a tried-and-true Ultimak scout mount, and either screw a 6:00 rail onto the stock HG (Bulgy polymer w/ heatshield) or buy one of the TDI lower HGs and file to fit so it works with the Ultimak.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:49:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RS39:
I have one the the TDI uppers, nice part, has 'legs' to trim against the lower so it can not rock.



Does the rail sit low enough to allow co-witnessing of the iron sights through something like an Aimpoint in a low ring?

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:54:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:34:54 AM EDT
I dont know how many times I have read how we don't need rails. I for one am glad I invested in an AK and the automatic superhuman eye improvements that go with it, like the ability to see in the dark and pick out hand sized targets past a couple hundred yards with open sights. I am glad I never wasted the money on lasik for my eyes or rails to mount things to mitigate those short comings.

BTW, just when does this mutancy kick in, I have had an AK for a couple years now, and I still can't see in the dark.


I am not a big fan of polymer rails, the short aluminaum ones , like veriforce and Krebs look short if you want to use the hand guard as a hand guard and mount something too. That is one thing I liked about the Ultimak is the length.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:13:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Onepoint:
I dont know how many times I have read how we don't need rails. I for one am glad I invested in an AK and the automatic superhuman eye improvements that go with it, like the ability to see in the dark and pick out hand sized targets past a couple hundred yards with open sights. I am glad I never wasted the money on lasik for my eyes or rails to mount things to mitigate those short comings.



Does this mean you like rails and optics, or not?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:03:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RS39:
but you can see thru the lower part just like an Ultimak.



That's what I meant by "cowitness"; guess I should've been more specific. My AR irons are in the lower 1/3 of my Aimpoint window, too, and I prefer 'em there as opposed to dead center.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:48:19 AM EDT

Does this mean you like rails and optics, or not?

Until the AK mutant eye abilities start to work, I think maybe rails would benefit the mounting of a light or scope. count me as pro-rails.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:14:37 PM EDT
MMmmmm....ultimak....


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