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Posted: 4/7/2006 2:19:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 2:22:28 PM EDT by JudgeX]
Hey guys, just got an AK-47 a couple weeks ago, WASR-10 with the tapco trigger that I researched on these boards :-P. It fires nicely and works... no misfires after about 400 rounds through it, and, with no proper training whatsoever, was able to hit a sheet of notebook paper at 100 yards after a few shots (go me, AK noob).

So yeah, I gotta say I love it, but, the standard wooden "terrorist" garb wasn't really doin it for me, so, I swapped out the "furniture" for the fiberforce... (which, I have to say was easy except for removing the wood from the gas tube... o m g)...

Before:
http://www.judgex.com/ak47.jpg

After:
http://www.judgex.com/ak47mod.jpg

Fiberforce comments:
I love the look and feel of the weapon now... the lengthier stock makes it feel more solid in my arms... I felt like I was having to bring it too close to me, and generally uncomfortable when holding the shorter WASR stock... I even added the 1" buttpad to the fiberforce stock to get that extra bit of configurability... and, because I noticed that the unmodified stock really put a bruisin' on my arm after many, many rounds.

Gotta say the cheek rest is perfectly positioned, too.

I do have a couple complaints with it though... the front upper cover comes up just a touch too high and conceals the very bottom portion of the front sight... you can still aim properly, but, I wish it was like 1/4" lower... and of course, there's no longer holding places for the cleaning kit and such... I would say I definitely recommend this modification to your weapon if you want it to look newer... non-gun enthusiasts tend to say "it looks a lot meaner now" etc... so, I like that... and I think the ultimate reason for the upgrade is that it SHOULD cut down on the heat transfer, for those of you who like to go all rock and roll.


Now, on to my questions... I need shooting tips... I'm an internet geek shut-in type and the few friends that I DO have are not expert marksmen... so, any of you guys out there who actually KNOW how to calculate an MOA... if you could give me some tips on how to shoulder a rifle and put some holes in something, I'd love it. Is there a particular stance? How do you aim more effectively? Any cool mnemonic devices to help you remember how to own up on something? I need tips for seated, kneeling, prone, and standing... but I'm usually standing...


Also, being a technology geek, I am looking into artificially boosting my accuracy by use of a red dot scope and maybe a laser... I've looked into the kobra, but the price has me a little scared off (I could almost buy a second AK for that!)... are there any solutions that you guys know of that are cost effective and cool? (I do have the standard russian style mounting bracket on this one)... pics of anything would be awesome, too...

Anyway, thanks in advance for the comments and tips!

-JudgeX


Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:45:57 PM EDT
Oh man, you got rid of the "terrorists garb"? That's like buying a new car, then taking it to get a $200 paint job. Seriously, do what you want with your own rifle.

As far as proper shooting style goes, I need to learn that myself. So I will be checking this thread tomorrow.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:23:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 6:26:21 PM EDT by HUNGARYAN]

Originally Posted By JudgeX:
Hey guys, just got an AK-47 a couple weeks ago, WASR-10 with the tapco trigger that I researched on these boards :-P. It fires nicely and works... no misfires after about 400 rounds through it, and, with no proper training whatsoever, was able to hit a sheet of notebook paper at 100 yards after a few shots (go me, AK noob).

So yeah, I gotta say I love it, but, the standard wooden "terrorist" garb wasn't really doin it for me, so, I swapped out the "furniture" for the fiberforce... (which, I have to say was easy except for removing the wood from the gas tube... o m g)...

Before:
www.judgex.com/ak47.jpg

After:
www.judgex.com/ak47mod.jpg

Fiberforce comments:
I love the look and feel of the weapon now... the lengthier stock makes it feel more solid in my arms... I felt like I was having to bring it too close to me, and generally uncomfortable when holding the shorter WASR stock... I even added the 1" buttpad to the fiberforce stock to get that extra bit of configurability... and, because I noticed that the unmodified stock really put a bruisin' on my arm after many, many rounds.

Gotta say the cheek rest is perfectly positioned, too.

I do have a couple complaints with it though... the front upper cover comes up just a touch too high and conceals the very bottom portion of the front sight... you can still aim properly, but, I wish it was like 1/4" lower... and of course, there's no longer holding places for the cleaning kit and such... I would say I definitely recommend this modification to your weapon if you want it to look newer... non-gun enthusiasts tend to say "it looks a lot meaner now" etc... so, I like that... and I think the ultimate reason for the upgrade is that it SHOULD cut down on the heat transfer, for those of you who like to go all rock and roll.


Now, on to my questions... I need shooting tips... I'm an internet geek shut-in type and the few friends that I DO have are not expert marksmen... so, any of you guys out there who actually KNOW how to calculate an MOA... if you could give me some tips on how to shoulder a rifle and put some holes in something, I'd love it. Is there a particular stance? How do you aim more effectively? Any cool mnemonic devices to help you remember how to own up on something? I need tips for seated, kneeling, prone, and standing... but I'm usually standing...


Also, being a technology geek, I am looking into artificially boosting my accuracy by use of a red dot scope and maybe a laser... I've looked into the kobra, but the price has me a little scared off (I could almost buy a second AK for that!)... are there any solutions that you guys know of that are cost effective and cool? (I do have the standard russian style mounting bracket on this one)... pics of anything would be awesome, too...

Anyway, thanks in advance for the comments and tips!

-JudgeX





First off, welcome to the board!

Secondly, refering to the wooden stock of the AK as "terrorist garb" makes me wanna hurl. It is a stock dude, the original stock from which the rifle came it has nothing to do with terrorists.

The Fiberforce, glad it works for you, seems like one of the reasons these stocks came out was for post ban rifles, you could replace the crappy thumbhole stock of your MAK-90 with a polymer "dragu" wannabe type stock. Don't get me wrong I put one on my MAK-90 several years ago, it was/is Ergo but lacks the aesthetics that so endear me to the AK culture.

Ok, now down to the shooting, be advised that the AK is a fairly close quarters carbine, capable of proper man target engagement at 300m or better with alleged decent probablity of hits, as for MOA calculations? come on dude we are talking AK's here, if you are wanting to shoot 1 MOA at even 75 meters, you may wish to switch to the AR (by the way I am thinking of selling mine if you are interested). Ok, ok seriously, the AK is a great fun tool, within it's limitations. For the most part you should be able to keep the AK within 4" @100 yards. That is not unreasonable. Some Kalish's can do better, much better.

Az for shooting positions, hey whatever floats your barge, I shoot in many different positions, If I am running an RPK type, I like to go prone, a regular AK off the bench, standing,kneeling it's all good, I use the sling as much as possible, try adjusting your sling and wrapping it around your left forearm (assuming you are right handed) and pulling the rifle into you.

DISCLAIMER

Anyway, I have never been in the military, I am not a police officer/swat team member/Zombie buster or crazy assed militant, I am just an average shooter. So bottom line is get to the range, burn some ammo, and get used to the wonderful AK.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:28:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:29:35 PM EDT by jjniven]
Fiberforce is made by Chinese terrorist

Get a REAL stockset
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:37:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:38:36 PM EDT by GuitarGuy]
Definately go for the K-Var stockset shown above. It has a metal heat sheild in the handguard. Your fiberforce will melt pretty quick since it doesnt have that. Plus the K-Var Stockset is a copy of actual russian military issue stocks. Its an exact replica, just made in the US.
Oh and grab a Kobra sight like the one u see atop my AK, it will mount to the siderail on your WASR, awesome sight, and its not blurry or off center as it appears in the pic, my camera just sucks. And again, its actual russian military equipment, the sight i mean.





Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:44:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 4:44:46 AM EDT by Burninammo]
Here is the link to the US Army marksmanship manual. It has all the info you need for stances, trigger control, sighting etc.
Sorry could not fix link but found it by Googleing "US Army Field Manuals"
Welcom to the board. If you don't mind, drop the "terrorist garb" comments.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:38:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 9:42:01 PM EDT by N3rday]
That GlobalSecurity.org is a dead link =(.

Which sucks, because I'm dying to get to know some good shooting positions...

edit:

did some messing around with the hyperlink, and came up with this:

www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/c07.htm
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:58:13 PM EDT
JudgeX,

Would you like to sell that "standard wooden terrorist garb?"

email me: instante@msn.com
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 5:39:46 AM EDT
yuck. Your gun your business but yuck.

Have you considered green?

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 6:56:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 7:09:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
Definately go for the K-Var stockset shown above. It has a metal heat sheild in the handguard. Your fiberforce will melt pretty quick since it doesnt have that. Plus the K-Var Stockset is a copy of actual russian military issue stocks. Its an exact replica, just made in the US.
Oh and grab a Kobra sight like the one u see atop my AK, it will mount to the siderail on your WASR, awesome sight, and its not blurry or off center as it appears in the pic, my camera just sucks. And again, its actual russian military equipment, the sight i mean.

i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/MDKalashnikovGuy/IMG_0828.jpg

i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/MDKalashnikovGuy/IMG_0829.jpg

i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/MDKalashnikovGuy/IMG_0832.jpg


like the use of big toes for a reference of scale.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 12:03:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 12:07:30 PM EDT by JudgeX]
thanks for the replies and stuff :).

I appreciate the comments... I did consider the stocks you guys have shown before ordering... I ultimately chose fiberforce because I prefer the look and feel of the skeletonized stock with the integrated handle...

I didn't mean offense by saying "terrorist garb"... I don't see it that way myself so much as a couple of the AR-interested people I know... I responded by telling them that if an AK-47 is a terrorist weapon, AR stands for "Another Retard". Not the most clever of retorts, but, I have always been more fond of the AK-47 style than the AR-15 style.... I know the AR-15 is more accurate, etc etc, but I am a medium-big caliber kind of guy from handguns to rifles.

I do have to say though, that I do prefer any all-black furniture to the wooden look, and I probably will pick up another set like the ones you've posted so i can swap in and out and get a feel for them.

The link to the shooting guide was ... AWESOME. I had to save it to my comp for future referencing and for printout to take to the range with me...

Another quick question... anyone tried steel targets at the range? The self resetting ones? Are they a waste of money?



Oh, also failed to mention that I really like the look of those waffle mags... looks very very cool on an all black gun... i had kind of dismissed them because I had only seen them locally on a "standard wooden terrorist garb" gun and didn't like them too well... may have to get some... (and then as soon as I get them someone will post a picture of even cooler mags)

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 12:18:53 PM EDT
If you purchase waffle mags be sure to get Bulgarian ones not the cheap pro mags. K-Var sells the Bulgarian waffles. They have steel inserts in the mag lips.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 2:06:16 PM EDT
+1, get only bulgarian waffle mags, avoid the promags like the plague
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 2:53:57 PM EDT
seriously ditch that ATI stock, any stock that needs screws to hold the forearm together on an AK is trash(not to mention being so fat that you can hardly grip the stupid thing.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 3:17:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Instante:
JudgeX,

Would you like to sell that "standard wooden terrorist garb?"

email me: instante@msn.com




Gun Whore, I was gonna make the same offer ...
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 3:32:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 3:36:09 PM EDT by JudgeX]
ahha, nah, not interested in selling the original parts... I like having the option of reverting back to terrorist mode in the event that another republican gets elected.... JUST KIDDING.

and as for the stock being trash, it's actually not so bad... It's not too big to hold, and I find the smooth plastic to be more comfortable against my hands than wood... for the same reason your computer's mouse is made out of plastic instead of wood ;)

considering I have everything I need to break it down and clean it and such with me at all times in the magazine pouch, the screws don't bother me, though, if I were in a situation where I had to grab either my magazine pouch or my rifle, the original wood would in fact be much better, since it held cleaning rod/kit, and requires zero tools to completely strip...

(I don't think I really need to strip it down that far very often anyway, honestly tho)... the gas tube is cleanable without having to remove the grip... I dunno... I'll let it wear its fiberforce clothes for 5 or 6 more outings to shoot (2 months or so), and then I'll see about installing some new plastic.

Anyone have range reports or information about where to get a kobra for the best possible price? The picture posted above really kinda makes me ... want one really bad... I think it looks badass sitting on top of the gun like that... mean looking... is it more accurate than the iron sights? to what range? How fast can it be removed in the event that an enemy swordsman breaks the lens before I can dispatch him with my bayonet and brass knuckles, so that I can grab it up and find the next target with iron sights?

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 10:04:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 10:10:04 PM EDT by GuitarGuy]
Your gun, your decision, but i say before you do anything ditch that stock and get the K-Var military one, if only for the reason that it was designed for this rifle and will hold your cleaning kit and cleaning rod. O yea and no screws. METAL HEAT SHEILD IN HANDGUARD!!!

Now for the Kobra. Get one from Tantal, hes the man, good service and he even stocks spare parts. Accurate?....more acruate than most red dot collimators. This has more to do with dot size than anything else. The dot on a kobra is roughly 1.8 MOA at 100 yards. This means that at 100 yards the dot will only cover about 2 inches on the target. So you can use it for moderate distance shots. But the strength of a red dot is not so much accuracy as it is speed. Because there is no time reqired to aquire a sight picture and they are much easier to train to use with both eyes open, you will have a complete field of view and can place shots quickly and accurately. Simple idea really, wherever the dot is when you squeeze the trigger is where the round will go. The perk to the kobra is that it has 4 different reticles that you can select from, A dot and chevron under it, chevron only, dot only, and crosshair. So you can choose which works best for you. Just know, that when properly sighted in, only the dot portion of the reticle will be where the shot actually goes, so your point of aim will change if you were to switch to the chevron reticle. For this reason i prefer the Dot and chevron reticle. I find that i can use the dot for precice shots, yet the chevron is big enough for me to easily pick up when moving and shooting fast for snap shots. The Kobra also features 16 levels of brightness adjustment and in particular the EKP-1S-03M model features a removable sunshade that ensures that even on the brightest of days, you will easily see the dot with no glare. The glass has a slight blue tint also to help with this.

They are powered by either double A or coin cell type batteries depending on the particular model, both easily available. The sight attaches to your siderail optic mount. It takes a bit of instruction in order to learn to adjust the rail clamp for a tight fit. It is critical that the fit be tight in order to keep its zero when you remove it and put it back on again. As for installation and removal, its as simple as fliping a locking lever. You wouldnt believe how user friendly it is.

As for zeroing it, i would recomend zeroing it for 50 yards, meters, if this is done, because of the trajectory of the round, you will have a near zero at 50 meters, and a far zero for 150 meters, all it takes to be dead on at 100 is a simple turn of the elevation dial one click clockwise from zero.

One of these sights can be had from Tantal for $185. A steal compared to American optics of the same caliber. These sights are used by russian counterterrorist units such as Spetsnaz Alpha.

Any information that I have not provided can be found at Tantals Kobra resource page:

tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/bstkobra.html
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 1:34:03 AM EDT
Three years and $4000 from now you'll wind up with the original wood furniture back on it.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 2:06:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
Your fiberforce will melt pretty quick since it doesnt have that.



I'd have to question the sanity of converting a rifle from no-ban/pre-ban configuration to ban-friendly configuration.

That aside, the Fiberforce ATI crapstock will NOT melt "pretty quick" due to a lack of heat shield.

Unlike a normal AK forearm, the Fiberforce forearm is held on with screws, and doesn't contact the barrel/gas tube, nor is it as close to the barrel/gas tube.

My MAK-90, now owned by a buddy, is still clad in that horrendous ATI furniture (fortunately, not for long). Multiple bumpfires, mag dumps, and over 600rds down the pipe in about 15-20 minutes (bumpfiring drums), and zero melt problems.

Truth be told, while ugly and a pain in the ass to remove (the whole screw deal annoys the piss out of me), they do stay quite a bit cooler than normal AK handguards (both wood or plastic).
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:27:24 AM EDT
I have purchased my AKs for the original wood furniture ... I dont even like the Russian ones that dont come with the wood furniture.

IMHO, anything other than the wood stocks takes away from the original design of the K man. I like original.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 7:00:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jjniven:
Fiberforce is made by Chinese terrorist

Get a REAL stockset www.k-var.com/shop/images/AK-001BX.jpg



WTF? What is your definition of terrorist?
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 10:39:14 AM EDT
Wow, didn't realize every AK owner on the planet hated the fiberforce :)...

No biggie... I still prefer the looks of it to the KVAR stuff... especially the stock... there are like a billion stock replacements out there, but only a few skeletonized, and of those, even fewer in polymer/glass/black... I wonder what it would look like with a kvar front and a fiberforce stock? :)

Link Posted: 4/9/2006 11:49:45 AM EDT

ahha, nah, not interested in selling the original parts... I like having the option of reverting back to terrorist mode in the event that another republican gets elected.... JUST KIDDING


Link Posted: 4/9/2006 3:38:56 PM EDT

Wow, didn't realize every AK owner on the planet hated the fiberforce :)


Not all AK owners, but a good deal of the ones that are online all the time. I think that mindset gets picked up and groupthink takes over.

If the stock set feels good and functions well, then you have a winner. A lot of original stock sets are butt ugly, even after refinishing. Don't get me wrong, there are some beautiful stocks on some AKs, but a lot of the ones people brag about having just look crappy. Also, the typical AK original buttstocks feel way too short for some of us.

Unless you're keeping it as a safe queen collectible, then get what feels good and functions right. Everything else is just snobbery.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:26:39 PM EDT
Maybe I'll paint my fiberforce pink and label my gun "Love Popper" or something... everyone at the range would be so enchanted...

Nah, just kidding. I already named the weapon "Longinus"
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