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Posted: 3/31/2006 3:41:07 PM EDT
just wondering if anyone knows the truth about this ?

LINK
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:57:02 PM EDT
IIRC, it is a ban on "dragon skin" body armor.
The Army doesn't want guys bringing ineffective, unknown body armor to the fight.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:18:16 PM EDT
yea but wouldnt that be better than nothan ?
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:22:26 PM EDT

'You Little Scumbag , you will only wear the armor that the Government issues you'
'Now get on your face and give me 25'
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:43:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By socandyman:
yea but wouldnt that be better than nothan ?



Everyone that deploys to the middle east now has an interceptor vest. There is no need to have soldiers in "questionable" body armor they bought on their own.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 8:44:27 AM EDT
made by the lowest bidder, government equipment is.

Need level 4 LAPD swat gear, they do.

www.chiefsupply.com/ba-tactical.phtml
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:48:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By santanatwo:
made by the lowest bidder, government equipment is. .............




Not always. Sometimes contracts are give to those who can meet a target date delivery schedule with quantity needed. That does not always mean lowest bidder.

The lowest bidder phrase is thrown around with many not understanding how govt. contracts work. The Govt. has a seperate agency called the Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA) that has onsite Govt. reps to ensure any product produce under contract, meets contract spec. "Mil-Spec" is not always the best spec for an item and if the Mil-Spec that is written into any item the govt. sources is crap, then crap is produced and delivered.

Hootbro
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:22:22 PM EDT
.gov equipment is usually made by the company that can afford to buy off the most commissars politicians.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:58:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By santanatwo:
made by the lowest bidder, government equipment is.

Need level 4 LAPD swat gear, they do.

www.chiefsupply.com/ba-tactical.phtml



Yeah I think I'll pass on wearing all that crap.

The interceptor vest is tried and true. It just plain works.

Unlike a SWAT team, soldiers need to be VERY mobile. There is a fine line where too much armor just exposes the soliders to more risk due to the inability to move quickly.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:41:49 AM EDT
HAHAHA the highest level listed is IIIA...

Pieces of crap.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:50:02 AM EDT
I think Ceradyne has the solution to the weight problem. But the .mil is too cheap to buy it.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:28:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hootbro:

Originally Posted By santanatwo:
made by the lowest bidder, government equipment is. .............




Not always. Sometimes contracts are give to those who can meet a target date delivery schedule with quantity needed. That does not always mean lowest bidder.

The lowest bidder phrase is thrown around with many not understanding how govt. contracts work. The Govt. has a seperate agency called the Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA) that has onsite Govt. reps to ensure any product produce under contract, meets contract spec. "Mil-Spec" is not always the best spec for an item and if the Mil-Spec that is written into any item the govt. sources is crap, then crap is produced and delivered.

Hootbro


There are other things considered, such as:
My aunt is a Gov. contracter, she is also an Anerican Indian, she was just telling me the other day how she WILL get the contract because she is an Indian AND a woman, so she gives them a high-ish bid, gets it, then gos and buys parts from her competitor and sells it to the government.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 10:56:38 AM EDT
I love how some of our members buy into the CNN bullshit of trying to make our military look as evil and imcompetent as they possibly can.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 11:31:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
I love how some of our members buy into the CNN bullshit of trying to make our military look as evil and imcompetent as they possibly can.



+1

CNN = Communist News Network
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 11:48:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By archer2:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
I love how some of our members buy into the CNN bullshit of trying to make our military look as evil and imcompetent as they possibly can.



+1

CNN = Communist News Network



I love it how some people throw around the word "communist" whenever they disagree with an news story. This is such an insult to anyone who has ever lived under communism and experienced it's repression.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:36:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tapeo1:

Originally Posted By archer2:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
I love how some of our members buy into the CNN bullshit of trying to make our military look as evil and imcompetent as they possibly can.



+1

CNN = Communist News Network



I love it how some people throw around the word "communist" whenever they disagree with an news story. This is such an insult to anyone who has ever lived under communism and experienced it's repression.



I love how some people don't know what they are talking about. If the dems and CNN had their way, that is exactly how we would be living.

I know a Russian emigrant who has been here for 20 years or so and HE calls it the Communist News Network. He is in his '50s and he damn well knows EXACTLY what it is like.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:38:21 PM EDT
Why did this get moved to the AK forum from GD? I don't believe it is a discussion on AKs.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:01:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 2:02:51 PM EDT by Stottman]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I think Ceradyne has the solution to the weight problem. But the .mil is too cheap to buy it.



Military is not always too cheap, but it has to be a better option. Ceradyne already provides the SPEARS/BALCS (SOF Issue) body armor.

As great as the USGI Interceptor is, if the velcro starts to clog up or get worn out, then the user will not be able to wear the plate correctly as it will sag.. Its also a pain to properly adjust to fit. The SOF issued BALCS/RBAV is a bit more comfortable as it goes on over the head like a Police vest, rather then Interceptor which goes on like a normal flak jacket.

ETA-

USSOCOM/USASOC has had a policy letter on this for quite awhile. Only authorized body armor is stuff they have put out..

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:25:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 2:26:22 PM EDT by Homeka45]
Defensereview.com has some info. on the snakeskin bodyarmor vs. interceptor issue as well as articles on carbon nanotube armor and cloaking devices. Interesting reading.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:43:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I think Ceradyne has the solution to the weight problem. But the .mil is too cheap to buy it.



Military is not always too cheap, but it has to be a better option. Ceradyne already provides the SPEARS/BALCS (SOF Issue) body armor.

As great as the USGI Interceptor is, if the velcro starts to clog up or get worn out, then the user will not be able to wear the plate correctly as it will sag.. Its also a pain to properly adjust to fit. The SOF issued BALCS/RBAV is a bit more comfortable as it goes on over the head like a Police vest, rather then Interceptor which goes on like a normal flak jacket.

ETA-

USSOCOM/USASOC has had a policy letter on this for quite awhile. Only authorized body armor is stuff they have put out..




Are they providing ceramic plates? The ones I saw were lightweight, but cost 3 times what a steel plate runs.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:03:28 PM EDT
The issue with the Dragon Skin armor is that it has not been tested by DOD. It has been tested in plenty of other venues and appears to be exactly what is advertised. However, the army will not honor SGLI benefit claims if a soldier dies in combat wearing body armor that is not tested by DOD. They also wont pay SGLI benefits if a soldier isnt wearing his seat belt during a car crash, not wearing kevlar while driving military vehicle, etc.... It is dotting i's and crossing t's, is all. Nothing more.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:43:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I think Ceradyne has the solution to the weight problem. But the .mil is too cheap to buy it.



Military is not always too cheap, but it has to be a better option. Ceradyne already provides the SPEARS/BALCS (SOF Issue) body armor.

As great as the USGI Interceptor is, if the velcro starts to clog up or get worn out, then the user will not be able to wear the plate correctly as it will sag.. Its also a pain to properly adjust to fit. The SOF issued BALCS/RBAV is a bit more comfortable as it goes on over the head like a Police vest, rather then Interceptor which goes on like a normal flak jacket.

ETA-

USSOCOM/USASOC has had a policy letter on this for quite awhile. Only authorized body armor is stuff they have put out..




Are they providing ceramic plates? The ones I saw were lightweight, but cost 3 times what a steel plate runs.



Yes, all the USGI plates I have ever seen have been ceramic, or a steel/ceramic mix. Steel plates are allot thinner, but thats about the only advantage.

There are two different type of plates for the BALCS and Interceptor (Plates are interchangable). The ones made by Ceradyne (from the BALCS) are rated to 7.62AP, versus the other ones (from the Interceptor) which are only 7.62... Of course, thats only what it says on the label.

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:16:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 8:17:13 PM EDT by cruzie27]
fuck CNN,.. i have no love for the US media,..ask anyone who was overthere and most will tell you that the news is full of crap.

i USGI vest are not exactly comfortable,.. but it is alot better than the crap we use to have,.. and that SAPI plate will stop alot more than you think.

maybe these dragon skin vests are as good as the ones issued,.. but i agree with what was said about dotting the i's and crossing the t's,....everthing for the reg army troops has to be dress right dress,..thats the way it is.

funny how they find this obscure little story and spin it into a very negative piece, but you never hear of any of the good things we do overthere,..FUCK CNN,. and there pansy ass reporters that stay huddled up in the green zone.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 10:14:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cruzie27:
fuck CNN,.. i have no love for the US media,..ask anyone who was overthere and most will tell you that the news is full of crap.

i USGI vest are not exactly comfortable,.. but it is alot better than the crap we use to have,.. and that SAPI plate will stop alot more than you think.

maybe these dragon skin vests are as good as the ones issued,.. but i agree with what was said about dotting the i's and crossing the t's,....everthing for the reg army troops has to be dress right dress,..thats the way it is.

funny how they find this obscure little story and spin it into a very negative piece, but you never hear of any of the good things we do overthere,..FUCK CNN,. and there pansy ass reporters that stay huddled up in the green zone.



Thats the news media period.. Even the "Stars and Lies" is guilty of it...Propaganda runs both ways. If you want real news, you have to see things for yourself.

For every school that get built, clinic opened, there are civilians getting killed accidently, Iraqi Police planting IEDs on their day off, etc...

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