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Posted: 3/30/2006 8:25:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 6:36:36 PM EDT by XGunBunny]
I am looking to buy my first AK and have a chance at a Norinco Type 56S-1 for $900.00. The current owner is going to throw in 2 - 30 round mags that came with the rifle, a 20 round mag, a sling and a case. The current owner bought the rifle in the late 90's and he has never shot it since he has owned it. I looked the rifle over a couple days ago and it is in pristine condition.

So, my first question for the folks that know the AK and all the clones, is this a good buy for a first AK?
My second question, is the price reasonable??



Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:42:00 AM EDT
I would think that's a little high, but not ridiculous. I paid $750 for what sounds like a very similar Polytech about six months ago. What kind of case?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:56:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 9:02:22 AM EDT by Mak]
It's a choice you are going to have to make whether you want a Chinese rifle that is more or less a collectors item that will depreciate if you shoot it too much for your first rifle or do you want a rifle that is a great gun and you have no problems shooting it as much as you want and will even likely have it increase in value?

I would go with a US built rifle from Atlantic Firearms with the discount you may get as being a member here.

I would go with a rifle from Arsenal of Las Vegas

I would do some research on your own and search for threads asking the same thing and answered repeatedly over the years and recent weeks (you are a team member and have access to the archive). After researching, check the AK rifle part of the equipment exchange to see what used rifles of varying types go for.

Check out various vendors of AK parts kits, get a Global Trades receiver and go to one of the threads asking about good builders and have the rifle you desire custom built with all foreign receiver markings for a nice looking rifle.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:12:53 AM EDT
First for NovaHokie9, it is just a soft case that he carries his AK's in. Nothing special. Thanks for the reply as well.

Now to Mak's reply, what makes the rifle in question a "more or less collectors item"? I didn't know this model was that rare. Anyway, if I do buy it, it is going to get shot, just not allot. Hell, I have had my AR for close to 2 years, and I have only put 500 or so rounds thru it so far. So the Ak will get shot, but not allot. Unless the SHTF or zombies start raoming the streets, it will a range queen.

I did a few days of research already. I have seen prices on the Type 56, all models, range from $600 to $1,500. I have also found other AK's or variants that range from $300 to $2000 for a custom build. I have looked thru the Atlantic Firearms site, the Arsenal Inc site, the Krebs site, Vector Arms site, Robinson Arms site for info on the VEPR, the AK-47.net site, plus here for info. There is allot of info out in space to digest over a short period of time, so to save time, which is in short supply these days, I thought I would just ask for some opinions.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:41:15 AM EDT
they arnt rare
they just cant ever import anymore of them

i think 7-8 would be fair
9 isnt out of line but its alittle overpriced

BTW those prices are for a nice rifle
if its beat has rust or looks like it was tided to the back of a truck for few miles the price gos way way down
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:56:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 11:06:43 AM EDT by Mak]
I'm not an expert on Chinese rifles. I own one post-ban Chinese AK rifle, the rest I currently own are from European countries.

1.Whether it is a collectable is based on two things the way I see it. No more Chinese AK rifles will ever be imported thanks to Bill Clinton.

2. Some people collect Chinese rifles because of number 1 above. Overall, Chinese rifles are not the best quality out there, IMO. There is also the question whether the rifle is a pre-1989 import or a post-1989 import that was caught in customs. If it is pre-1989 it is worth more to a collector. If it is a post-1989 import being represented as a pre-1989 import and is illegally configured without US parts then its value is much less then $900.00. I would rather get a post-ban MAK-90 type rifle and convert it to pistol grip configuration for a shooter. Cost no more than $450.00-$500.00 tops.

Is this a Sile import that was a 56S-1 that was imported as a preban rifle and then caught up in customs? Would be a 1 56S 1 .
Post ban rifles were imported by Sile in New York, New York. They were pre ban 56S rifles modified to post ban configuration by the bayonet lug being ground down, some not all had muzzle nuts tack welded on, and thumbhole stocks attached. The fixed stock model had the number 7 stamped on each side of the model number 56S.

This could be the difference between a rifle worth $500.00 tops in my opinion and one worth considerably more. Now I could be totally talking out my ass as I said I was not an expert on Chinese rifles, but I still think you need to really research the rifle before spending that much. If it is a pre-1989 rifle, do you want a collector piece as that is what it will be.

Here is a site from RotDorn/JeepCreep I believe: www.chicom47.com/ All about the Chinese AK's. After checking out that site and reading the link I posted for the site above you should go take a look at the rifle and take pictures and write down every bit of info on the receiver.

After doing that go to The AK Forum and post a question to RotDorn and JOHNO on the Chinese section of that forum..Both of those guys are members here and staff over on that site. It just might save you from over paying a couple hundred dollars to as much as $400.00 on that rifle.

Like I said, I maybe wrong, but then again who knows without totally researching that particular rifle.

As for what kind of rifle should you get if not that one? A US/Bulgarian built rifle from ARSENAL of Las Vegas is a very high quality rifle. Depending on the caliber and model you can pay from $450.00 up to $1400.00 but every one of those rifles will usually be very high quality.

For a cheaper price you can get a stamped 1.6mm Bulgarian rifle from Armory USA/Global Trades in 7.62x39 for about $550.00 or less. Maybe Bachelor_of_Science can give you an insight into one of these rifles.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:44:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 11:12:08 AM EDT by Mak]
Guess it's not the one on the EE. It isn't NIB and like I said before, is this going to just sit in a safe. It is your first AK and I think you would be happier with a fixed stock rifle when it finally comes down to it.

If you just got to have an underfolder buy one of the ones from Atlantic Firearms and you will save yourself $300.00 which would buy you alot of ammo and if you decide to sell it you will be able to get all or most of your money out of it. You want a shooter not a collector piece to set in a safe and be handled a couple of times.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 3:25:25 PM EDT
I would get it for the Make definitely, Chinese. If it's Norinco or Polytech, you are purchasing a "Military" rifle. It has true Collectiblity and History. Do not get stuck-on its needs to be an US made Receiver. Remember this is all Original (should have 4 matching Serial No.s).

It's PREBAN, very Antique


Everthing else was made for Target Practice.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 11:02:50 AM EDT
I did some more info checking with the surrent owner, he is a friend of mine that is a licensed dealer.
I have bought some other guns thru/from hiim before so I know he is not going to screw me over to bad. All the serial numbers match and he verified it is a preban rifle. I am going to pick it up today and keep it for a few days before I officially buy it from him. I will get some pics tonight and try to post them here.

Thanks for all the help.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 11:16:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Functional:
I would get it for the Make definitely, Chinese. If it's Norinco or Polytech, you are purchasing a "Military" rifle. It has true Collectiblity and History. Do not get stuck-on its needs to be an US made Receiver. Remember this is all Original (should have 4 matching Serial No.s).

It's PREBAN, very Antique


Everthing else was made for Target Practice.



The "Military" uses semi-auto? The post ban Sile rifles were actually the same rifles as the preban, they had to "ban" them after release from customs and add a 1 before the serial number. They are not an antique, either. The only thing collectable about them is they are not imported anymore as socandyman and I stated above.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 11:47:18 AM EDT
If it's a "56s-1" then it's PREBAN. Or manufactured pe-1985.

What does the Ser. # start with. Also, is the Bolt Blued.

Great Shooters. Refer to the Chinese forum, Photo pics Topics. There are Soldiers in Camo with 56s-1 semi-auto Chinese. Also refer to Chicom47.com, Norinco Exporters.

If you do not want. I am unterested.

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:33:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 2:35:25 PM EDT by Bullitt3401]
I sold my $450.00 Vector "Classic" AK-V47 and bought a NIB/unfired Norinco 56S (the fixed stock version) with all mags/accessories out of the EE for just a little over $900.00...and there are no regrets!

My Vector was a very good AK, but I didn't like the flat finish. I like the blued finish used on the old Polytechs & Norincos. I've seen Arsenal AK rifles at the local gun store and the finish isn't much better than Vector's.

If you hired a GOOD AK builder to build up you want, it'll cost more than $900.00. I would know.

I think you'll be happy with the Norinco.

Scott



Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:37:12 PM EDT
Norinco 56s-1 are rare. You don't see them eveyday. However, here in North Texas, North Dallas/Las Colinas I see tons of Wasr, Roms & Arsenal Look-a-Likes.

Chinese Norinco & Polytech are rare!! And We definitely like our Quality semi's here!
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:58:48 PM EDT
Mak, what makes you say that a Chinese rifle is not the best quality out there? Secondly, arent' some of the Romanian military AKs semi-auto?

Here are my Chinese rifles.

This Type 56S-2 may not be full auto but it's more "military authentic" than any other post '89 AKs. 100% foreign parts.
















XGunBunny, Chinese rifles are my favorit. The quality on the Poly Techs are excellent!
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:11:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mak:
1.Whether it is a collectable is based on two things the way I see it. No more Chinese AK rifles will ever be imported thanks to Bill Clinton.




Just so you know who your friends are...We can thank George Bush for this, not Clinton.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:26:34 PM EDT
XGB,
The price is too high.

IF you lived in NY 900 would be a deal. Cross the state line to OH or shop around PA, you can find those easily for $700 in pristine shape. The soft case and the mags can be had for $10ea. (no big deal). If this guy is a "good" friend and a dealer at that, he could probably cut you a break. If not, buy an Arsenal SAM-7 with a milled receiver 1000rds if ammo and 5 mag for the same price.

IMHO, these are not that rare esp. in OH and PA.

Just my .02

vato
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:52:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 4:56:06 PM EDT by Mak]
The comment has a ? mark on the end of it. I was asking a question. I had to go back and see that I put a question mark on my comment to see if I did or not. I posted in other threads this week about B-West importing Chinese rifles and having them stopped in customs due to Norinco/Polytech rifles being imported into the US in the early 90's which were full auto. This is how the B-West US made receivers came about.


Mak, what makes you say that a Chinese rifle is not the best quality out there?


Neutrino45 Are you of the opinion that the Chinese rifles are the best quality out there?

I don't think we are talking about the side folder here are we? Isn't this an underfolder?

If so, you are definately in a minority with most members here over the years. The wood on Chinese rifles is of very poor quality. Easily cracks and chips. I have actually ordered brand new wood from polytechparts.com the original importers of many Chinese rifles and they had to replace it due to it being split without ever being mounted on a rifle.

I often hear people talk about the high blued quality finish on Chinese rifles. Come on, give me a break. The bluing on Chinese rifle is some of the worst blueing I have ever seen. It is very poor. Chinese rifles need to be well oiled and cleaned or they will rust even sitting in a safe with dessicant bags. The Polytech Legend may be a very high quality rifle but some of the others are worth less then I see them for.

Of course, I and thousands of others here may be wrong though just about every thread listing the quality of AK's here on this site has put the Chinese AK's in the middle of the pack.

If you ever read any of the threads I have posted in here on the site, I have called bullshit on people saying a MAK-90 is a rifle not worth buying when they go for $350.00 to $400.00. That is bullshit. A Chinese MAK-90 or other postban Chinese rifles are great first AK's much better than a Romanian rifle (which I have owned about 5 of) but I don't think a $900.00 preban Chinese underfolder is a good rifle for a first time purchaser. It is twice the cost of a MAK-90 even with compliance parts. Alot of people find the underfolder uncomfortable to shoot for a first AK but WTF if the guy wants to spend $900.00 dollars for a rifle he may shoot a couple of times a year for a "wow" factor go for it.

I would spend less for a Polish build if I am just going to fire the rifle a couple times a year.

I don't think the underfolders are all that rare, I have seen them at just about every large Phoenix AZ SAR/Crossroads of the West show I have attended for prices ranging $700-$800 since the ban ended. I haven't purchased one. Passed one by and went back after buying a Makarov and it was gone, I was close to buying one that day but would not ever consider one for the price of the one mentioned here.

There is one on the EE right now for $850.00, the price has been dropped a couple of times since it was listed at the beginning of the month. If $900.00 is such a great price why isn't this one selling now at $850.00? ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=122&t=334074

Here is a thread all about the quality of the different AK types ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=93&t=70455

I believe the Bulgarian rifles are a level above the Chinese stamped rifles and I have owned a couple. Yes, the paint on the SLR-105's suck, but it is parked underneath and can be repainted easily by a gunowner. The stamped Bulgarians are available for half the price as I noted before.

The milled Bulgarian rifles are even higher quality.

The Russian VEPR's are even better in many owners opinion. You will almost never hear a VEPR member complain about his rifle. Cost 2/3rds of the rifle mentioned here.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:58:41 PM EDT
Neutrino45,

Now this is what I am talking about!

These are Ak47s!

Economics, Laws of Supply and Demand Dictates Value!!
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:15:39 PM EDT
Mak,

Your Quality Perception is Very Off!

Chinese Manchurian Chu Wood is the Best! For sure the Best Loooking!!.

I have a little Quize for you!

Which one is Better, BMW or Ford!

Remember It's Quality, Not Quantity!!
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:18:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By robpiat:

Originally Posted By Mak:
1.Whether it is a collectable is based on two things the way I see it. No more Chinese AK rifles will ever be imported thanks to Bill Clinton.




Just so you know who your friends are...We can thank George Bush for this, not Clinton.



Bush did nothing to stop Chinese or Russian rifles from coming into the United States per se. It was Bush that caused rifles to come into the country under the sporting purposes regulations which meant you had to convert them back while adding US parts.

Clinton is the person who banned the importation of Chinese and Russian rifles of certain types. I posted this the other day in another thread. It involved suits filed by B-West imports taking the case into federal court over the Chinese importations and after B-West lost, the Clinton Administration banned Russian imports also that B-West was bringing in (i.e. Russian Tiger rifle?)

www.usdoj.gov/olc/arms02.htm

www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/bwest_v_us.txt
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:21:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Functional:
Mak,

Your Quality Perception is Very Off!

Chinese Manchurian Chu Wood is the Best! For sure the Best Loooking!!.

I have a little Quize for you!

Which one is Better, BMW or Ford!

Remember It's Quality, Not Quantity!!



OK, I think I get it now, this is somebody's troll account who was a former member here, right?
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:23:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vatolocal:
XGB,
The price is too high.

IF you lived in NY 900 would be a deal. Cross the state line to OH or shop around PA, you can find those easily for $700 in pristine shape. The soft case and the mags can be had for $10ea. (no big deal). If this guy is a "good" friend and a dealer at that, he could probably cut you a break. If not, buy an Arsenal SAM-7 with a milled receiver 1000rds if ammo and 5 mag for the same price.

IMHO, these are not that rare esp. in OH and PA.

Just my .02

vato



Exactly, finally!!!!!!
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:52:40 PM EDT
Xgunbunny,

Buy What's Cool for you. If you liked it from the beginning Sell, then go with your instinct!

Don't let the cost be an investment loss because someone says it not worth it.

It's worth it.

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 11:00:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mak:
The comment has a ? mark on the end of it. I was asking a question. I had to go back and see that I put a question mark on my comment to see if I did or not. I posted in other threads this week about B-West importing Chinese rifles and having them stopped in customs due to Norinco/Polytech rifles being imported into the US in the early 90's which were full auto. This is how the B-West US made receivers came about.


Mak, what makes you say that a Chinese rifle is not the best quality out there?


Neutrino45 Are you of the opinion that the Chinese rifles are the best quality out there?

I don't think we are talking about the side folder here are we? Isn't this an underfolder?

If so, you are definately in a minority with most members here over the years. The wood on Chinese rifles is of very poor quality. Easily cracks and chips. I have actually ordered brand new wood from polytechparts.com the original importers of many Chinese rifles and they had to replace it due to it being split without ever being mounted on a rifle.

I often hear people talk about the high blued quality finish on Chinese rifles. Come on, give me a break. The bluing on Chinese rifle is some of the worst blueing I have ever seen. It is very poor. Chinese rifles need to be well oiled and cleaned or they will rust even sitting in a safe with dessicant bags. The Polytech Legend may be a very high quality rifle but some of the others are worth less then I see them for.

Of course, I and thousands of others here may be wrong though just about every thread listing the quality of AK's here on this site has put the Chinese AK's in the middle of the pack.

If you ever read any of the threads I have posted in here on the site, I have called bullshit on people saying a MAK-90 is a rifle not worth buying when they go for $350.00 to $400.00. That is bullshit. A Chinese MAK-90 or other postban Chinese rifles are great first AK's much better than a Romanian rifle (which I have owned about 5 of) but I don't think a $900.00 preban Chinese underfolder is a good rifle for a first time purchaser. It is twice the cost of a MAK-90 even with compliance parts. Alot of people find the underfolder uncomfortable to shoot for a first AK but WTF if the guy wants to spend $900.00 dollars for a rifle he may shoot a couple of times a year for a "wow" factor go for it.

I would spend less for a Polish build if I am just going to fire the rifle a couple times a year.

I don't think the underfolders are all that rare, I have seen them at just about every large Phoenix AZ SAR/Crossroads of the West show I have attended for prices ranging $700-$800 since the ban ended. I haven't purchased one. Passed one by and went back after buying a Makarov and it was gone, I was close to buying one that day but would not ever consider one for the price of the one mentioned here.

There is one on the EE right now for $850.00, the price has been dropped a couple of times since it was listed at the beginning of the month. If $900.00 is such a great price why isn't this one selling now at $850.00? ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=122&t=334074

Here is a thread all about the quality of the different AK types ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=93&t=70455

I believe the Bulgarian rifles are a level above the Chinese stamped rifles and I have owned a couple. Yes, the paint on the SLR-105's suck, but it is parked underneath and can be repainted easily by a gunowner. The stamped Bulgarians are available for half the price as I noted before.

The milled Bulgarian rifles are even higher quality.

The Russian VEPR's are even better in many owners opinion. You will almost never hear a VEPR member complain about his rifle. Cost 2/3rds of the rifle mentioned here.



Yup, to me, the Chinese rifles are the best. I appreciate the fact that all of my Chinese rifles are 100% foreign. These rifles are used around the world. The only difference between mine and theirs is that mine is semi. As you can see from my pics, the bluing, fit, and the quality of wood and bakelite are beautiful on my rifles. I love the Chinese triggers and my Poly double underfolder is the most accurate AK I've got. You and "thousands" of other may have your opinion. Your experience may vary. These are MY reasons why I love MY Chinese AKs.

Just because someone has a low post count and have a difference in opinion that they are automatically a troll?

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 11:56:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 11:58:57 PM EDT by Mak]

Originally Posted By Neutrino45:

Just because someone has a low post count and have a difference in opinion that they are automatically a troll?





No, it has nothing to do with his post count. It was the comment he made about the Manchurian Chu Wood.


Chinese Manchurian Chu Wood is the Best! For sure the Best Loooking!!.





These in my opinion are the best quality, have excellent history - collectiblity and are superp Shooters.

They are the closest to Military Spec.





Chinese Norinco & Polytech are rare




I've done a search of the site for anything he posted in the last 3 months. In one of the threads everyone was trying to explain to a guy that a rifle with a B-West receiver was one he should pass on at a certain price. The member I called a Troll tells the guy:


Originally Posted By Functional:
Buy It! It's Chinese, Heat Treated and it's Preban! Buy It!



ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=84363

Is that the type of advice you would give someone who is requesting information about an AK if you know anything whatsoever about the rifle?

People are telling the guy that the receiver is not heat treated as it is a B-West manufactured receiver. Functional's advice is quoted above. Buy it, It's Chinese, Heat Treated and it's Preban! Buy It!

In reality, would you consider the statement above to be true and correct? I wouldn't.

It doesn't have anything at all to do about his post count, it has to do with the comments I have seen of his taken on the whole. It doesn't matter if the rifle is a Chinese preban, MAK-90, or a rifle built up on a B-West non-heat treated receiver with Chinese parts. He gives the advice that it is one of the best rifles out there better than any other countries AK.

Another reason I said I believed it was a Troll account is he registered in 2002, I've read his posting from 2002 and 2003 in the archive. These posts were articulate with no spelling errors and good grammer. He then doesn't post again until 2006 and his writing ability goes to hell with numerous errors. The spacing used is totally different. In my opinion it is a kid now posting on someone elses account. Of course, could be someone who suffered a stroke and is no longer the person they were 4 years ago.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:00:07 AM EDT
Hmmm.. I see.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:13:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Neutrino45:
Hmmm.. I see.



Well, would you tell someone that a B-West receivered AK is as Functional did, a Chinese preban rifle with a heat treated receiver and they should buy it? Just like to know if you go along with his advice.

I myself wouldn't give that advice as I consider the B-West receiver the worst receiver out there. It is well known that if you don't heat treat the trigger and hammer pin holes they will fail. The rails and ejector are reported to be soft and I have seen many reports of them failing. I consider a rifle built on the receiver worth what the total of the parts minus the receiver would be worth.

I wouldn't tell someone it is a great rifle.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:15:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 2:17:11 AM EDT by socandyman]
first off chinese rifles arnt rare not even alittle bit
if they where the price would be up in the $1300 range with the other prebans

i agree he would be better off with a polish or bulgi

you guys need to remember 1 thang

<­BR>










Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:45:26 AM EDT
That is so old...
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:55:45 AM EDT
Mak,

You spend to much time here on this site! Some of us have other interest.

I am here lately because I have acquired several new Chinese Ak47s (Polytech Norinco) Underfolder & Sidefolders.

I am a 40 year old married Consultants in North Dallas. I own several business here. I also have a 19 year old daughter.

I have a CHL. I don't shoot often because I am very busy as a Business Person.

This is how some of us can afford the Investments items/Toys we purchase.

I offer Opinion Advice on Sound Investments. As I am a Consultant. "infoconsultants" is my Consultanting Company. Please check with Dallas County.

I also shoot at "winchester", "Bullet Trap" & "DFW" (Roof Collapse).

I would be Clad to shoot with anyone in the DFW areas. Again, Chinese Ak47s is just one of my hobbies.

I only wanted to offer an opinion. Hopefully no harm done!

I like coffee, Starbucks anyone!
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:43:21 AM EDT
Functional,

I'll IM you when I know I am passing through town. Maybe have to go bust some caps.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:03:38 PM EDT
Vatalocal,

Contact me at "consulting_info@yahoo.com"

Functional
Rod

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:31:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 7:36:02 PM EDT by frick]
QUOTE:

I'm not an expert on Chinese rifles. I own one post-ban Chinese AK rifle, the rest I currently own are from European countries.

END QUOTE:


So, Im trying to figure out as a self proclaimed NON expert, why your "opinions" even matter? They appear to be veiled adds for somebody elses products.

Bottom line, the ONLY AK's you are able to purchase, that were manufactured in a Government Arsenal are Chinese AK's. And dont split hairs on the semi's, other than a third pin, and the FCG they are Mil Spec.

No other gun out there today, and probably forever, can provide the pedigree that the Chinese ones can.

And as Ive said before to any of you, "Oh these guns are so common here, I see underfolders all the time for 700 dollars or less", SHOW ME THE RIFLES!

In fact, you show me a 700 dollar underfolder in reasonable condition and I'll show you a gun thats sold, add an underfolder spike for another 100, and its gone too. You got a red plastic side folder that you want to part with for 850? Email me and its gone right now.

To this date, nobody has ever produced one of these "I see them cheaper all the time" products to actually sell, its just usually some whiner who doesnt understand the difference between a chinese AK and the milled out WASR 10 that they own.

And dont get me wrong, my shooter is a SAR 2, and I own at least three parts kit AK's on US made receivers, but never for an instant do I think that just because I can buy one again, that its a real replacement for an arsenal made gun.

Same with a USGI Garand, and a new commercial Springfield, an M1A will never be an M14, even though mine has all USGI parts, except for the Springfield receiver.

Those who ENDEAVOUR to aquire the products which truly are military, or are as close to military as possible while staying within the law will always know why these items demand a premium.

Being stupid does not bolster an incorrect opinion, get your damn facts straight before you spout off as the font of all correct knowledge thats out there.

There were both chinese made B west guns which are fine, and there were B west guns that assembled chinese parts on US made, very POORLY made receivers, in fact, there were even some pistols produced at that time as well.

So yes, if you know the correct type of B west gun to look for, there is no problem recommending one.

Follow logic like you put forth above, and then there are no safe 1903 Springfield rifles because some blew up.

Oh, to answer the original question, buy the damn gun, in the long run, you will never regret it.

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 1:59:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 2:25:40 AM EDT by Mak]

Originally Posted By frick:
QUOTE:

I'm not an expert on Chinese rifles. I own one post-ban Chinese AK rifle, the rest I currently own are from European countries.

END QUOTE:






So, Im trying to figure out as a self proclaimed NON expert, why your "opinions" even matter? They appear to be veiled adds for somebody elses products.





TheRealSundance
Team Member
Field Marshal
Joined :: January 2003
Post Number :: 1907

MD, USA


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Originally Posted By frick:


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Originally Posted By Jeepcreep:


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Originally Posted By raf:
Still, as said, no more are being imported. If Kerry wins, another Ban may soon be in the offing...
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Yes, again you are correct, but people are buying underfolders for $499!...& 5.45 is hot! I personally love the chinese guns,(Thats why I created that website) but people aren't buying them right now like they were this time last year. They can get a MAK90, 922r it and have less than $475 in it. It seems to be the ol' supply and demand thing......
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You better check the law before you go converting the Maks, they were sporterized to allow importation, and never were offered in a pre ban configuration, so just like a pre ban Romak, you cant be putting underfolders on them, unless you never want it to see daylight.
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Try 922r.


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Posted :: 10/20/2004 8:42:29 PM





Of course, some people will give you the incorrect advice all the time. Isn't that right. Some of us give correct advice, some just give wrong advice or provide no help at all.

I guess owning AK's for close to 10 years and other firearms for nearly 40 years counts for something.
Of course I'm not an FFL like at least one of the posters here who most likely wants to maximize profits when selling firearms they have for sale. Me, when I decide to sell a firearm, I make sure the person is informed as to what they are getting. I don't try to rip someone off.

Some of my firearms. Have had a nice collection over the years not as big as some though some of these have gone to members here as I am trying to cut back on the numbers I have, as you can't shoot them all at once can you?

My current 5.45x39 rifles


SAR-1 that i sold to bionicll, he saw my current AK collection.


The AK's I still own.

Nice Bulgarian AK-74 build with engraving for about $600.00




Everyone should have a converted Chinese postban rifle. .223

Romanian SAR-1 unbanned and dressed up.

Sometimes you get tired of some of the AKs you own and sell them to go on to newer rifles.
One of the milled Bulgarian SLR-100H's now belongs to AZ_Hoplite a former member here.
I think he was banned.
The other went to the new owner in Texas. The SAR-1's went to DOJ employees a few years ago.
These pictures are probably from around 2000 or so as I haven't had any of these rifles for awhile.
The Chinese BWK-92 is the unbanned Chinese rifle pictured above. I still own it.




You can't be satisfied with AKs alone though so over the years I have bought, built, and traded for AR's. Got rid of a couple but I still have a few(6).

Of course, at work I have the ones with the go fast switch which if you need I can post pictures of my duty rifle.

I also tend to have pistols from time to time also. I particularly like to shoot my .45 1911's. I'm picking up another one later this month sometime from an estate. Buy low sell high. The Springfield cost me $325.00 from an estate, the chromed one was $100.00 in a paper bag out of a shed, of course it didn't look like that when I got it.

I also collect Makarovs. I had 4 more but the prices have gone up so I sold some to a friend.
I still have 3 Russians and 2 Bulgarians.


Here are my 2 Italian shotguns. I paid about $600.00 each new for these. They actually retailed for much more but I bought at the right time. Nice for the pheasant hunting trips in South Dakota and skeet shooting. I have a couple of Remington shotguns in the safe for quail and coyotes.



Some other pistols I have in the safe. The Ruger .22s are for rabbit hunting. Nothing quite like shooting rabbits on the run to keep you up to snuff with the yearly timed pistol qualifications.
The Ruger pistols are to keep sharp with the carry pistols at work. The S&W .357 was my first carry weapon out of the academy in Michigan 20 years ago. The Ruger GP100 recently purchased used, maybe 15 years old appears near new. $225.00 with hundreds of rounds of ammunition, speed loaders, box and original receipt. The Colt .22 revolver I inherited.


Yeah, I currently own 1 postban Chinese rifle, but over the past 40 years I have owned quite a few weapons of many makes and types, including alot of AKs. I keep pretty informed as to values and no, unlike someone stated.


So, Im trying to figure out as a self proclaimed NON expert, why your "opinions" even matter? They appear to be veiled adds for somebody elses products.




Why do my "opinions" even matter?

Because unlike some people on this thread, instead of telling the person to just "Buy It", I gave him sound advice which answered the questions he asked.

They appear to be veiled adds for somebody elses products.

They were links to AKs which he could research at prices much lower than the one he asked whether it was a good choice for a first time AK buyer. They weren't veiled at all, they were right out there for him to check. Considering Atlantic Firearms is a board sponser and gives a discount to members here and supports this board I think it is a good choice. Of course, considering the fact that some of you don't support the board yourself, I wouldn't expect you to support the vendors who support the site.



Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:07:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 4:09:01 AM EDT by socandyman]
mak i like the maks
dont know why but ive started collecting them


well what about the preban yugos and the hung rifles ?
where where they made in a cave ?
and arnt saigas still made in the izh plant ?



not being a smartass well.. maybe alittle but im asking cause i dont know


i think you guys are missing the point
he said he wants to shoot it
if he shoots it the value will go down
so even if it was a good price (personally i dont think it is but i dont care to fight about it) its still not a good rifle for him
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 6:40:00 AM EDT
Mak,
All that I can say is WOW!

You must have some pretty BIG safes for that collection.
-vato
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:08:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vatolocal:
Mak,
All that I can say is WOW!

You must have some pretty BIG safes for that collection.
-vato




Oh, I've got more rifles, shotguns, and pistols. The deer rifles are up at the house in Michigan for hunting in November, no since dragging them around on airlines all the time. I get like new firearms from gunshows, private purchases, pawn shops, and the best place I have found is estate sales of gun collectors who had collections of over 500 firearms. A friend's father is a competitive shooter, gunsmith, and retired LEO. He often sends out lists of estates he is liquidating for deceased families that have no use for hundreds of firearms. They want to raise funds and don't want to go through consignments at gunshops and auctions. The prices are open to negotiation. I have a new list right here with me now though it is from another estate out of California I have through another source.

My latest pistol will be coming from this estate and is a Norinco 1911A1 which I have offered $250.00 for. Most of the guys over on the Pistol forum say it is a very good deal. I have already had guys from the site who are locally in AZ offer to purchase it before I have got it sight unseen. I must be a good deal on it.

Not as good as the deal I got on the Springfield 1911 but that was a more expensive pistol to begin with. You can't pick one of those up every day for $325.00, I helped a lady down the street sell off her husbands collection when her husband dropped dead. She was going to put his firearms on consignment. I gave her my bluebooks and marked the pages for her and told her to decide what she wanted for each firearm. I then circulated the list at work and her firearms sold in 2 days.

The chromed 1911 I have pictured above cost me $100.00 but not in its present condition. It was an old .45 someones mother-in-law had and the person that inherited it just wanted to get rid of it. It was delivered to my friends father in parts in a brown paper bag, I think he charged me $48.00 for the labor to rebuild it and sent it off to be chromed and then built it up to what it is now. It helps to have friends who you help cool coat their roofs and rebuild walls around their yard and their father happens to be a gunsmith and competitive shooter who can get you parts at his cost.

Of course, other guys get good deals on firearms here all the time and they do post pics.

Member Harrysacz picked up a NHM 90 .223 postban rifle last October for $85.00. I believe he sold it at the first of the year for about a $200.00 profit which was still a great deal for the buyer.

and this thread shows a number of Chinese prebans members picked up for in the $700.00-$750.00 range.

Don't let people fool you on the value of a rifle because they are in it for the money. Some people just don't like to see the value of their purchase drop and will do anything to puff the price up.

The main thing is that a preban Chinese rifle at $900.00 for a first time AK owner that intends on firing the weapon instead of letting it sit in a safe is going to be disappointed if he decides he doesn't like the underfolder after a year or two. It will go down in value with the use of it.

Just like those $600.00 Italian O/U shotguns will go down in value if I use them too much. Though I have actually been offered over $1000.00 for the one on the bottom. Now look at the bluing on those barrels and the Circassian Walnut stocks, the work that went into building those firearms is a work of art. I wonder how they would look with some Manchurian Chu wood?

Link Posted: 4/5/2006 11:50:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 12:24:02 PM EDT by XGunBunny]
Well, I went ahead with getting the rifle, despite some advice not to. As far as me shooting the rifle, and lowering its value, that is not a factor to me. Granted I may not get out to shoot as much as some of you guys, but when I do get out, I shoot all my guns, not just one or two of them. I do think that $900 is a little high for this particular rifle, maybe by $100 or so. Also, I am not into selling guns, when I buy one, I keep it 99% of the time. I did sell 2 pistols in the past 5 years. One was a Taurus PT145, didn't like how it shot, and the other, a Keltec that I had bought for my wife and she hated it, so I got rid of it.

I do appreciate all the replies and all the info that was shared. Hope nobody gets all pissed because I did not listen to their advice.

I did allot more research on AK's, specifically some of the lower price versions, such as the Romanians, also went to a local gunstore and checked out there stock of AK's and was not impressed. Not that they are pieces of shit or anything, but like I said in an earlier post, I am kind of picky when it comes to buying guns.

After picking the rifle up, I took it home to give it a good once over. I am very pleased with the condition of the rifle. I do not think this has been fired more than 20 times, it that much. The blueing on the hammer is barely worn, probably from dry firing and cycling the bolt, and I could not find anywhere else on the rifle that show wear marks.

I did get some pics, not the best in the world, but they should suffice to show off the rifle.

One of the pics shows the import marking, but it may be hard to read. This is on the right hand side, on the barrel, just in front of the handguards. "D.I.G INC. - VA BCH. VA. U.S.A."

The other marking are on the left of the receiver. There is the "66 inside of the triangle", then "56S-1" then the serial number of 407373. (I did find 3 matching serial numbers, one of the frame, one on the top cover, and one on the bolt. I read somewhere that there should be 4 serial numbers, but I did not find the fourth. Where should that be located???) Below this is the "NORINCO" and "BCI/USA", which I think should read "BCH/USA".
http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DispAsThumb.asp?sAccountUnq=48422&iGalleryUnq=2282&sImage=DSC00482.JPG

















Link Posted: 4/5/2006 11:57:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 12:26:33 PM EDT by XGunBunny]
Ok, need some help with the pic posting.

I did the "bracket img bracket" at the beginning, pasted in the shortcut to pics on the AR15 photo server, and then did the "bracket /img bracket" at the end of the address.

What did I miss???


Nevermind, I figured it out, just a case of the dumbass hit me, thats all.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:22:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 12:28:44 PM EDT by Mak]




Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:28:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 12:28:32 PM EDT by XGunBunny]
Thanks Mak, appreciate the help.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:32:09 PM EDT
To get the big pictures you just open them up large from ar15.com server, right click the image to get properties, copy and paste the image address (url) and put that in the brackets
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:40:14 PM EDT
Thanks again Mak.

So what do you think of the rifle? Granted you were the one that was steering me away from buying it.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 1:20:28 PM EDT
It is overpriced for my part of the country. Of course, I live in what has been referred to as the Uzi triangle, numerous builders of assault weapons. You can't always tell condition based on pictures but it does appear to be a nice rifle. If you don't mind the price you payed and you are happy with it then that is what matters. It is a collector and will depreciate with excessive wear but if you are aware of that and if you don't mind that then it doesn't matter, you aren't buying it for its worth as a collector piece but for shooting.

Someone stated I was posting links in order to drum up business for some dealers which is bullshit. I didn't want to see someone buying a postban modified rifle for preban prices and getting hosed for $300.00. That is why I posted the links to Chinese rifle websites so you could do research. I guess the same people forgot to read that I told you that you could contact JOHNO or Jeepcreep/Rotdorn who are "experts" or "collectors" on the Chinese rifles.

I hope my "non-expert" opinions and posting helped you research your purchase.

You know of course that you won't be stopping at one AK though don't you? With your next purchase check out the dealers I posted for an Arsenal, VPER, or Vector build or get a parts kits and have a custom rifle built like I did. You will appreciate a full stock rifle if you ever get one.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 6:20:59 PM EDT
Mak, I really do appreciate all the info you shared with me. I did learn quite a bit over the past couple weeks about AK's and all the variants out there. Now I need to get ammo, a original accessory kit, if any still exist on the market.

As far as not stopping with just one AK. I know over the next few years I am going to be buying quite a few more rifles and pistols. I think the next one is going to be a dedicated sniper rifle. I am trying to decide on one of the following: AI AWM in 338 Lapua Mag, the Barret 416 Barret, or the AR-30 in 338 Lapua Mag.

I think I will be getting one version of everything that suits my fancy, before I start getting seconds and thirds of a particular type of rifle. Although, once I get to shooting this rifle, I may be going out and getting one for my wife, she sure liked this one when I brought it home.

I am also looking for a nice, light SxS 20 ga. Something along the lines of an older Ithaca or Fox. I did see 4 or 5 superb examples as Bass Pro Shop in the shotgun room.

So, we will see what comes home with me next.



Link Posted: 4/6/2006 2:32:13 PM EDT
XGunBunny,

You're welcome.



For the naysayers. I checked the first 3 pages of the EE today and found 3 Chinese preban AK's from $600.00 to $750.00. There seems to be plenty of them out there but the prices range widely from the low to the outrageous.

One for $750.00
ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=122&t=337699
ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=122&t=334126


one for $850.00 ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=122&t=334074

One for $1350.00

One for $1150.00
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