User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 3/29/2006 4:49:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Nope. Never been asked for it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/29/2006 5:32:25 PM EDT
[#2]
As long as you have the paperwork that was sent back to you from the BATF thru your class III/SOT dealer who cares? Glad people are laid back enough where you shoot not to jump on you and demand to see your papers. FYI don't show your papers to anybody, I don't know what the laws are where you live but if any asshole gave me a hard time about my Class III stuff tell them to call the BATF.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/29/2006 5:52:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Ive never had it at a public range, but I keep a copy of my paperwork in the Cobray "assault case" I keep it in.
Nope, no ones ever asked. Besides, asking MG people for their paperwork would probably scare most people, I mean Cmon, all us legal MG guys are all nuts? Right? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/29/2006 6:13:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Ironically, if you go over to 1919a4.com, they all talk about getting down right run out of ranges for haveing a semi auto 1919. People run to the range officer "that man has an illegal machine gun".
 In my book a snich is just about as low as a child molester! I have no respect for any do-gooders that go running to the "authoritys" because they think they "caught" me doing something wrong. If I didn't do it TOO YOU, then SHUT THE FUCK UP!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/29/2006 6:41:22 PM EDT
[#5]
I think it's funny that your screenname is "Jimmy Hoffa!" Fits your personality... 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2006 1:56:15 AM EDT
[#6]
A semi 1919 with a crank really winds them up. Perfectly legal, though, as long as it is run by hand. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2006 5:53:45 AM EDT
[#7]
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2006 8:47:02 AM EDT
[#8]
My bro got somewhat bothered by some douchebag at our local range while looking at his Krink with a perm attached barrel extension/fake can. This guy actually said, "that doesn't look like 16 inches to me...looks like 15 and a half." C'mon man, don't you have anything better to do?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2006 9:10:47 AM EDT
[#9]
 yeah, like someone could tell by just looking at it! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2006 9:26:34 AM EDT
[#10]
Jeez, what a  .I would have told him "Yes, its 15 1/2 inches just like my dick!, You wanto measure it to be sure?" |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2006 9:35:55 AM EDT
[#11]
I got asked once at a range about my UZI. As soon as i uncased it the range officer asked to see my papers. I had the fake barrel installed, and i showed them it was just a legal semi-auto. It was funny though. Also a friend of mine got asked when he bumped his AK a little bit. But when police investigated a shoot i was at in the desert, people had a lot of legal full-autos. They all had thier binders of paperwork ready. But the police just wanted us to stop shooting the tangerite targets. They didn't ask about the paperwork.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2006 9:40:52 AM EDT
[#12]
I've never been asked for paperwork. Gotten a lot of funny stares from the Elmer Fudds though.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2006 10:10:58 AM EDT
[#13]
As a matter of fact, I was asked last week by a couple of Maricopa County Sheriffs.
I really don't think they knew what they were looking at, the one just glanced at it and handed it back. Heck here's a pic of the action, Annarchy took this while I was talking to them.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2006 5:34:41 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm another one that has never been asked to see paperwork. I mainly shoot out the back door of my house though, easier to find the brass in the kitchen floor, rather than out there in the grass and leaves.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2006 11:49:26 PM EDT
[#15]
I went to a small shoot in WI and some Leos showed up and checked the paperwork of a few people. They were real laid back about it. I just wish they were that way a little farther north in WI so I could get a sign off.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2006 12:04:35 AM EDT
[#16]
"what ya reckon this here is, Cleatus?" |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2006 12:06:51 PM EDT
[#17]
healthy pimp-slap needed on lane 4, healthy pimp-slap, lane 4! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2006 4:32:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Most cops wouldn't know the first thing about what they were looking at if given an ATF form to look at. They are not authorized to view your tax documents anyway. If they want to confirm it, have them get an ATF agent to the scene and show it to him/her.
I've been asked for my state MG license but never any forms for any of my MGs and I wouldn't show them if I were asked. I'm not required by law to display my private tax information to unauthorized persons....not even cops. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2006 4:47:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Seriously? Are you sure? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2006 5:37:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Yeah! That'll work. What would it hurt to show a cop a copy of your form 4. We don't need/have an MG license in NC. Suppose they decide to arrest your ass and throw your $8000 MG in some lockup closet with 50 other guns for the two months it takes to get a letter from the BATFe showing them the same damn thing you didn't want to show them. I'll bet if one said "show me some proof that MG is legal...Boy!" you wouldn't be able to get your F4 out of your pants fast enough. But then again, I seriously doubt you own a legal fucking MG anyway. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2006 5:38:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Quite frankly Tommygun with all due respect you are SO WRONG I don't know where to begin. Without turning this into a long multipoint dissertation answer a couple of these question: 1. Which state allow unregistered machineguns? answer: None, they only allow registered MG, either by virtue of federal approval (Fm 4) and a state permit, if required. Your defense to possession of an illegal machine gun is your Fm 4 and state permit, if required. If you are asked to show your "permit" by a local or Fed LEO, and you don't have or won't show your "permits", you WILL be arrested. period. Your release will be secured when you provide proof that you are in compliance with your state/fed law. 2. I'm not going to discuss pre and post-samples in this thread. You can pontificate about tax data all day long, but if you don't provide compliance by showing ou legally possess your NFA toy(s), you are guilty of illegal NFA possession IN ALL 50 STATES. You may be a great guy, maybe you aren't, don't know and don't care, but you are WRONG in this instance, and your stupid advice, if followed by someone here, would result in their needless arrest. I also highly doubt you OWN any machineguns, or even could afford one. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2006 7:06:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Well, you are wrong. In my state, there is nothing in the state law that says I must show a police officer my fedral registration form for possession of my machineguns and yes I own several of them. The law says I must show my license(state issued license) to possess them. It is up to a federal ATF agent to verify compliance with federal registration not the local police. I have been asked for my MG license at the range and showed it(my state issued license) as required by my state law but I have never been asked for federal registration papers and would not show them unless and until an ATF agent were present. The laws vary state to state and I speak for no other state than my own. I am "not" giving advice to anyone as you state, I am merely stating what "I" would do/not do and have done in the past. Quote from The general laws of MA. PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT TITLE XX. PUBLIC SAFETY AND GOOD ORDER CHAPTER 140. LICENSES SALE OF FIREARMS Chapter 140: Section 129C. Application of Sec. 129B; ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition; transfers; report to executive director; exemptions; exhibiting license to carry, etc. on demand Any person who, while not being within the limits of his own property or residence, or such person whose property or residence is under lawful search, and who is not exempt under this section, shall on demand of a police officer or other law enforcement officer, exhibit his license to carry firearms, or his firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card, or, after January first, nineteen hundred and seventy, exhibit a valid hunting license issued to him which shall bear the number officially inscribed of such license to carry or card if any. Upon failure to do so such person may be required to surrender to such officer said firearm, rifle or shotgun which shall be taken into custody as under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D, except that such firearm, rifle or shotgun shall be returned forthwith upon presentation within thirty days of said license to carry firearms, firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card or hunting license as hereinbefore described. Any person subject to the conditions of this paragraph may, even though no firearm, rifle or shotgun was surrendered, be required to produce within thirty days said license to carry firearms, firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card, or said hunting license, failing which the conditions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D will apply. Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from being prosecuted for any violation of this chapter. --------------------------------------------------------------------- There is nothing in MA law that says I must produce a federal registration form for a mchinegun to any local or state police officer. Federal law says I must produce it to an agent of the ATF. Your state may vary.....mine is quiet on the matter. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2006 7:16:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Tommygun, what fucked up state do you live in where they'll take your guns away if you don't have a hunting license?
 Also, I don't see anything addressing class 3 in that law either. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2006 8:08:13 PM EDT
[#24]
TommyGun;
The only place that I might be wrong (taking your word that you have MG's) is saying you probably don't have any MG's. I don't profess to be an expert on MA laws, however, everything else i said IS TRUE. I will happily recant my words, and agree you are right if you show me where I was wrong. I said if you live in a state that requires it, you must show the state form, which is only a handful of states. If you define law enforcement that you are required to show your "legal documents" (Fm 4's) to as only state/local and ATF, well you're wrong. Any, absolutely any, federal officer, whether they are park rangers, VA hospital security; TSA airport folks, forest service, etc ; to any and all Special Agents, WILL require you to prove legal possession of a MG. Since it is for them a federal violation, you WILL produce your Fm 4 or be locked up, while you sit in jail to prove a losing point. If you're at a range, or any area shooting, or not shooting for that matter (in certain cases) and any of the above happen to be there, your MA forms don't mean squat. If you leave your state (get a .20) to go to a shoot somewhere, then you MUST provide Fm 4 to any law enforcement (state, local, fed). Your MA permit is useless at Knob Creek to anyone. It's also NOT legal proof to anyone outside of MA. Without the Fm 4 outside MA you have NO means to establish you legally possess your MG. I understand what you are/were trying to say, but quite frankly, YOU ARE still WRONG, based upon what YOU posted. I, however, posted correctly. Need proof of that? "I've been asked for my state MG license but never any forms for any of my MGs and I wouldn't show them if I were asked. I'm not required by law to display my private tax information to unauthorized persons....not even cops." So answer my question, if you go to any other state, you MUST provide Fm 4 to show legal possession,...."even to cops". In MA, you must show , at least, any FLEO, not just ATF, your Fm 4. Anything less is probable cause to arrest, AND seize your MG(s). Furthermore, that statute you posted appears mute in dealing with NFA. Just because you have personal experience doesn't mean it's the law or legal. Have a good evening.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2006 8:33:13 PM EDT
[#25]
I wanted to kick that guys ass so bad, but I stayed polite since I was a guest at your range..heh. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/1/2006 12:38:06 AM EDT
[#26]
I have gatlin gun and bump at my house all the time never had the leo's here to check it out . I was talking to one of my neighors one day he ask if i had full auto's becaues he heard them go off. I said no. I showed the sheif how to bump his ar and at the range he loved it .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/1/2006 3:55:08 AM EDT
[#27]
Why not just show them the form and be done with it? Those two MCS officers were both very respectfull and non confrontational, had I escalated the situation by playing the violated rights game it would have made for a long day.
As stated, you might have gone that route, but then again if you don't want the local cops in your life, you want the Feds in it even less. Heck, I showed them the class 3/SOT form and they went on their way, I even offered to let them put some rounds downrange through a couple of the toys but they declined the invite. Hell, I gave them both our card and actually made a sale for a stripped AR lower to of one of them. How do you really think it would have gone if I had told them "I ain't showing you nothing"? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 4/1/2006 4:10:26 AM EDT
[#28]
I would have thought that being out in the desert you would have benn fine & nobody would have benn the wiser, I guess even in AZ it's hard to get awaywithout somebody complaining. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/1/2006 4:27:41 AM EDT
[#29]
Nope, never had to show paperwork myself. I mainly shoot at my range, or at a private gun club.
I was present at a shoot at a local conservation range when a park ranger showed up and asked to see papers of a friend of mine who had his MG's there. I stopped going to public ranges not long after that............ |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/1/2006 5:15:59 PM EDT
[#30]
As a Class 3 FFL/SOT holder in a "no-fun" State I usually give the local LEO's a courtesy call ahead of time when I go out plinking with the machineguns that way when they start getting 911 calls they know it's just me.
Last time the members in our FFL got together to shoot at a members place he called the Sheriffs Office to let him know we'd be shooting at his place that day. Some hours later one of the guys turns around and asks if anyone knows any Troopers? We all turn around and a Trooper had driven his cruiser up the dirt road and was just sitting there watching us. We stepped away from the firing line (5 belt-feds and about 15 other various machineguns) empty handed as the Trooper exited his vehicle, owner of property asked the Trooper if he'd like to see all the paperwork for the machineguns and he said "no, I figure you guys must be legit because you wouldn't be that stupid to be shooting as long as you have." Near as we could tell he'd been back behind us for about 5 minutes but had been listening to the gunfire for another 30 minutes before that as he was going up and down gravel roads trying to figure out where all the noise was coming from. He was issuing a citation to a motorist the next exit north of where we were at (3-4 miles away) when a person came flying up to him and told him that someone was shooting machineguns and he had to do something about it. The wind was out of the south that day and he said that once he got out of his cruiser he could hear the gunfire. We offered the Trooper opportunities to shoot his choice of machineguns then or after he got off shift in 20 minutes but he respectfully declined...though he did accept the foamies and double hearing protection as he watched us blast away for about 5 minutes! At our Iowegian Fall Shoot last year the local Sheriff granted one of his jailers permission to bring out the Departments 1928 Thompson (providing it was stripped and cleaned/lubed) that was presented to them by the FBI for helping them with the Bonnie and Clyde case. The Thompson hadn't been out of the Sheriffs office for 10 years (cleaned and put away) and hadn't been fired in 15-20 years, the Deputy who had cleaned it 10 years prior stopped out on his break and put a couple mags thru it and the jailer loved shooting their Thompson all day, especially when we fired ours at the same time on the firing line. Hopefully in May we'll get the Sheriff himself to come out to the range and put some lead downrange with their Thompson!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/3/2006 8:07:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Jwise, thanks I just spewed my lunch on my keyboard! bahahahah!
|
||
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
