Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 3/29/2006 12:37:32 PM EDT
I used to own a m-11 sten convert, and When I shot it, everyone just smiled, but no one ever ever asked to see my paperwork or even if it was legal. Has anyone ever approached any of you that own a legal MG. I was just curious as I was reading the other thread about a the sar-1 that went slam fire. But it amazed me, there would be 20-30 people there, and I know some had be LEO's, but I never got questioned, Although I did keep a copy of the tax stamp with the gun in the case.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:49:43 PM EDT
Nope. Never been asked for it.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:32:25 PM EDT
As long as you have the paperwork that was sent back to you from the BATF thru your class III/SOT dealer who cares? Glad people are laid back enough where you shoot not to jump on you and demand to see your papers. FYI don't show your papers to anybody, I don't know what the laws are where you live but if any asshole gave me a hard time about my Class III stuff tell them to call the BATF.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:52:29 PM EDT
Ive never had it at a public range, but I keep a copy of my paperwork in the Cobray "assault case" I keep it in.

Nope, no ones ever asked.

Besides, asking MG people for their paperwork would probably scare most people, I mean Cmon, all us legal MG guys are all nuts? Right?

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:13:20 PM EDT
Ironically, if you go over to 1919a4.com, they all talk about getting down right run out of ranges for haveing a semi auto 1919. People run to the range officer "that man has an illegal machine gun". In my book a snich is just about as low as a child molester! I have no respect for any do-gooders that go running to the "authoritys" because they think they "caught" me doing something wrong. If I didn't do it TOO YOU, then SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:41:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jimmy_Hoffa:
Ironically, if you go over to 1919a4.com, they all talk about getting down right run out of ranges for haveing a semi auto 1919. People run to the range officer "that man has an illegal machine gun". In my book a snich is just about as low as a child molester! I have no respect for any do-gooders that go running to the "authoritys" because they think they "caught" me doing something wrong. If I didn't do it TOO YOU, then SHUT THE FUCK UP!



I think it's funny that your screenname is "Jimmy Hoffa!" Fits your personality...
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 1:56:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jimmy_Hoffa:
... they all talk about getting down right run out of ranges for haveing a semi auto 1919...



A semi 1919 with a crank really winds them up. Perfectly legal, though, as long as it is run by hand.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:53:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 5:54:15 AM EDT by Parrandero]

Originally Posted By jwise:

Originally Posted By Jimmy_Hoffa:
Ironically, if you go over to 1919a4.com, they all talk about getting down right run out of ranges for haveing a semi auto 1919. People run to the range officer "that man has an illegal machine gun". In my book a snich is just about as low as a child molester! I have no respect for any do-gooders that go running to the "authoritys" because they think they "caught" me doing something wrong. If I didn't do it TOO YOU, then SHUT THE FUCK UP!



I think it's funny that your screenname is "Jimmy Hoffa!" Fits your personality...



Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:47:02 AM EDT
My bro got somewhat bothered by some douchebag at our local range while looking at his Krink with a perm attached barrel extension/fake can. This guy actually said, "that doesn't look like 16 inches to me...looks like 15 and a half." C'mon man, don't you have anything better to do?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:10:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NovaHokie9:
My bro got somewhat bothered by some douchebag at our local range while looking at his Krink with a perm attached barrel extension/fake can. This guy actually said, "that doesn't look like 16 inches to me...looks like 15 and a half." C'mon man, don't you have anything better to do?





yeah, like someone could tell by just looking at it!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:26:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NovaHokie9:
My bro got somewhat bothered by some douchebag at our local range while looking at his Krink with a perm attached barrel extension/fake can. This guy actually said, "that doesn't look like 16 inches to me...looks like 15 and a half." C'mon man, don't you have anything better to do?



Jeez, what a .
I would have told him "Yes, its 15 1/2 inches just like my dick!, You wanto measure it to be sure?"
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:35:55 AM EDT
I got asked once at a range about my UZI. As soon as i uncased it the range officer asked to see my papers. I had the fake barrel installed, and i showed them it was just a legal semi-auto. It was funny though. Also a friend of mine got asked when he bumped his AK a little bit. But when police investigated a shoot i was at in the desert, people had a lot of legal full-autos. They all had thier binders of paperwork ready. But the police just wanted us to stop shooting the tangerite targets. They didn't ask about the paperwork.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:40:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:10:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 10:17:56 AM EDT by Gunslinger808]
As a matter of fact, I was asked last week by a couple of Maricopa County Sheriffs.
I really don't think they knew what they were looking at, the one just glanced at it and handed it back.
Heck here's a pic of the action, Annarchy took this while I was talking to them.


Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:34:41 PM EDT
I'm another one that has never been asked to see paperwork. I mainly shoot out the back door of my house though, easier to find the brass in the kitchen floor, rather than out there in the grass and leaves.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:49:26 PM EDT
I went to a small shoot in WI and some Leos showed up and checked the paperwork of a few people. They were real laid back about it. I just wish they were that way a little farther north in WI so I could get a sign off.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:04:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 12:05:28 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Gunslinger808:
As a matter of fact, I was asked last week by a couple of Maricopa County Sheriffs.
I really don't think they knew what they were looking at, the one just glanced at it and handed it back.
Heck here's a pic of the action, Annarchy took this while I was talking to them.







"what ya reckon this here is, Cleatus?"
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:06:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NovaHokie9:
My bro got somewhat bothered by some douchebag at our local range while looking at his Krink with a perm attached barrel extension/fake can. This guy actually said, "that doesn't look like 16 inches to me...looks like 15 and a half." C'mon man, don't you have anything better to do?



healthy pimp-slap needed on lane 4, healthy pimp-slap, lane 4!


Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:32:29 PM EDT
Most cops wouldn't know the first thing about what they were looking at if given an ATF form to look at. They are not authorized to view your tax documents anyway. If they want to confirm it, have them get an ATF agent to the scene and show it to him/her.

I've been asked for my state MG license but never any forms for any of my MGs and I wouldn't show them if I were asked. I'm not required by law to display my private tax information to unauthorized persons....not even cops.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:47:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tommygun2000:
Most cops wouldn't know the first thing about what they were looking at if given an ATF form to look at. They are not authorized to view your tax documents anyway. If they want to confirm it, have them get an ATF agent to the scene and show it to him/her.

I've been asked for my state MG license but never any forms for any of my MGs and I wouldn't show them if I were asked. I'm not required by law to display my private tax information to unauthorized persons....not even cops.


Seriously? Are you sure?
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:37:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 5:42:01 PM EDT by Morning_Wood]

Originally Posted By tommygun2000:
Most cops wouldn't know the first thing about what they were looking at if given an ATF form to look at. They are not authorized to view your tax documents anyway. If they want to confirm it, have them get an ATF agent to the scene and show it to him/her.

I've been asked for my state MG license but never any forms for any of my MGs and I wouldn't show them if I were asked. I'm not required by law to display my private tax information to unauthorized persons....not even cops.




Yeah! That'll work.

What would it hurt to show a cop a copy of your form 4. We don't need/have an MG license in NC. Suppose they decide to arrest your ass and throw your $8000 MG in some lockup closet with 50 other guns for the two months it takes to get a letter from the BATFe showing them the same damn thing you didn't want to show them. I'll bet if one said "show me some proof that MG is legal...Boy!" you wouldn't be able to get your F4 out of your pants fast enough. But then again, I seriously doubt you own a legal fucking MG anyway.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:38:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 5:40:30 PM EDT by v188]

Originally Posted By tommygun2000:
Most cops wouldn't know the first thing about what they were looking at if given an ATF form to look at. They are not authorized to view your tax documents anyway. If they want to confirm it, have them get an ATF agent to the scene and show it to him/her.

I've been asked for my state MG license but never any forms for any of my MGs and I wouldn't show them if I were asked. I'm not required by law to display my private tax information to unauthorized persons....not even cops.



Quite frankly Tommygun with all due respect you are SO WRONG I don't know where to begin. Without turning this into a long multipoint dissertation answer a couple of these question:

1. Which state allow unregistered machineguns?
answer: None, they only allow registered MG, either by virtue of federal approval (Fm 4) and a state permit, if required. Your defense to possession of an illegal machine gun is your Fm 4 and state permit, if required. If you are asked to show your "permit" by a local or Fed LEO, and you don't have or won't show your "permits", you WILL be arrested. period. Your release will be secured when you provide proof that you are in compliance with your state/fed law.

2. I'm not going to discuss pre and post-samples in this thread.

You can pontificate about tax data all day long, but if you don't provide compliance by showing ou legally possess your NFA toy(s), you are guilty of illegal NFA possession IN ALL 50 STATES.

You may be a great guy, maybe you aren't, don't know and don't care, but you are WRONG in this instance, and your stupid advice, if followed by someone here, would result in their needless arrest.

I also highly doubt you OWN any machineguns, or even could afford one.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 7:06:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By v188:

Originally Posted By tommygun2000:
Most cops wouldn't know the first thing about what they were looking at if given an ATF form to look at. They are not authorized to view your tax documents anyway. If they want to confirm it, have them get an ATF agent to the scene and show it to him/her.

I've been asked for my state MG license but never any forms for any of my MGs and I wouldn't show them if I were asked. I'm not required by law to display my private tax information to unauthorized persons....not even cops.



Quite frankly Tommygun with all due respect you are SO WRONG I don't know where to begin. Without turning this into a long multipoint dissertation answer a couple of these question:

1. Which state allow unregistered machineguns?
answer: None, they only allow registered MG, either by virtue of federal approval (Fm 4) and a state permit, if required. Your defense to possession of an illegal machine gun is your Fm 4 and state permit, if required. If you are asked to show your "permit" by a local or Fed LEO, and you don't have or won't show your "permits", you WILL be arrested. period. Your release will be secured when you provide proof that you are in compliance with your state/fed law.

2. I'm not going to discuss pre and post-samples in this thread.

You can pontificate about tax data all day long, but if you don't provide compliance by showing ou legally possess your NFA toy(s), you are guilty of illegal NFA possession IN ALL 50 STATES.

You may be a great guy, maybe you aren't, don't know and don't care, but you are WRONG in this instance, and your stupid advice, if followed by someone here, would result in their needless arrest.

I also highly doubt you OWN any machineguns, or even could afford one.



Well, you are wrong. In my state, there is nothing in the state law that says I must show a police officer my fedral registration form for possession of my machineguns and yes I own several of them.

The law says I must show my license(state issued license) to possess them. It is up to a federal ATF agent to verify compliance with federal registration not the local police. I have been asked for my MG license at the range and showed it(my state issued license) as required by my state law but I have never been asked for federal registration papers and would not show them unless and until an ATF agent were present.

The laws vary state to state and I speak for no other state than my own. I am "not" giving advice to anyone as you state, I am merely stating what "I" would do/not do and have done in the past.

Quote from The general laws of MA.

PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT


TITLE XX. PUBLIC SAFETY AND GOOD ORDER


CHAPTER 140. LICENSES


SALE OF FIREARMS


Chapter 140: Section 129C. Application of Sec. 129B; ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition; transfers; report to executive director; exemptions; exhibiting license to carry, etc. on demand

Any person who, while not being within the limits of his own property or residence, or such person whose property or residence is under lawful search, and who is not exempt under this section, shall on demand of a police officer or other law enforcement officer, exhibit his license to carry firearms, or his firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card, or, after January first, nineteen hundred and seventy, exhibit a valid hunting license issued to him which shall bear the number officially inscribed of such license to carry or card if any. Upon failure to do so such person may be required to surrender to such officer said firearm, rifle or shotgun which shall be taken into custody as under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D, except that such firearm, rifle or shotgun shall be returned forthwith upon presentation within thirty days of said license to carry firearms, firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card or hunting license as hereinbefore described. Any person subject to the conditions of this paragraph may, even though no firearm, rifle or shotgun was surrendered, be required to produce within thirty days said license to carry firearms, firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card, or said hunting license, failing which the conditions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D will apply. Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from being prosecuted for any violation of this chapter.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

There is nothing in MA law that says I must produce a federal registration form for a mchinegun to any local or state police officer. Federal law says I must produce it to an agent of the ATF.

Your state may vary.....mine is quiet on the matter.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 7:16:36 PM EDT
Tommygun, what fucked up state do you live in where they'll take your guns away if you don't have a hunting license?

Also, I don't see anything addressing class 3 in that law either.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 8:08:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 8:18:47 PM EDT by v188]
TommyGun;

The only place that I might be wrong (taking your word that you have MG's) is saying you probably don't have any MG's.

I don't profess to be an expert on MA laws, however, everything else i said IS TRUE. I will happily recant my words, and agree you are right if you show me where I was wrong.

I said if you live in a state that requires it, you must show the state form, which is only a handful of states.

If you define law enforcement that you are required to show your "legal documents" (Fm 4's) to as only state/local and ATF, well you're wrong. Any, absolutely any, federal officer, whether they are park rangers, VA hospital security; TSA airport folks, forest service, etc ; to any and all Special Agents, WILL require you to prove legal possession of a MG. Since it is for them a federal violation, you WILL produce your Fm 4 or be locked up, while you sit in jail to prove a losing point. If you're at a range, or any area shooting, or not shooting for that matter (in certain cases) and any of the above happen to be there, your MA forms don't mean squat.

If you leave your state (get a .20) to go to a shoot somewhere, then you MUST provide Fm 4 to any law enforcement (state, local, fed). Your MA permit is useless at Knob Creek to anyone. It's also NOT legal proof to anyone outside of MA. Without the Fm 4 outside MA you have NO means to establish you legally possess your MG.

I understand what you are/were trying to say, but quite frankly, YOU ARE still WRONG, based upon what YOU posted. I, however, posted correctly.

Need proof of that? "I've been asked for my state MG license but never any forms for any of my MGs and I wouldn't show them if I were asked. I'm not required by law to display my private tax information to unauthorized persons....not even cops."

So answer my question, if you go to any other state, you MUST provide Fm 4 to show legal possession,...."even to cops". In MA, you must show , at least, any FLEO, not just ATF, your Fm 4. Anything less is probable cause to arrest, AND seize your MG(s).

Furthermore, that statute you posted appears mute in dealing with NFA. Just because you have personal experience doesn't mean it's the law or legal.

Have a good evening.


Link Posted: 3/31/2006 8:33:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NovaHokie9:
My bro got somewhat bothered by some douchebag at our local range while looking at his Krink with a perm attached barrel extension/fake can. This guy actually said, "that doesn't look like 16 inches to me...looks like 15 and a half." C'mon man, don't you have anything better to do?



I wanted to kick that guys ass so bad, but I stayed polite since I was a guest at your range..heh.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:38:06 AM EDT
I have gatlin gun and bump at my house all the time never had the leo's here to check it out . I was talking to one of my neighors one day he ask if i had full auto's becaues he heard them go off. I said no. I showed the sheif how to bump his ar and at the range he loved it .
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:55:08 AM EDT

I've been asked for my state MG license but never any forms for any of my MGs and I wouldn't show them if I were asked. I'm not required by law to display my private tax information to unauthorized persons....not even cops.


Why not just show them the form and be done with it?
Those two MCS officers were both very respectfull and non confrontational, had I escalated the situation by playing the violated rights game it would have made for a long day.


If they want to confirm it, have them get an ATF agent to the scene and show it to him/her.


As stated, you might have gone that route, but then again if you don't want the local cops in your life, you want the Feds in it even less.
Heck, I showed them the class 3/SOT form and they went on their way, I even offered to let them put some rounds downrange through a couple of the toys but they declined the invite.
Hell, I gave them both our card and actually made a sale for a stripped AR lower to of one of them.
How do you really think it would have gone if I had told them "I ain't showing you nothing"?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:10:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
I got asked once at a range about my UZI. As soon as i uncased it the range officer asked to see my papers. I had the fake barrel installed, and i showed them it was just a legal semi-auto. It was funny though. Also a friend of mine got asked when he bumped his AK a little bit. But when police investigated a shoot i was at in the desert, people had a lot of legal full-autos. They all had thier binders of paperwork ready. But the police just wanted us to stop shooting the tangerite targets. They didn't ask about the paperwork.



I would have thought that being out in the desert you would have benn fine & nobody would have benn the wiser, I guess even in AZ it's hard to get awaywithout somebody complaining.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:27:41 AM EDT
Nope, never had to show paperwork myself. I mainly shoot at my range, or at a private gun club.

I was present at a shoot at a local conservation range when a park ranger showed up and asked to see papers of a friend of mine who had his MG's there.

I stopped going to public ranges not long after that............
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:15:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:07:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jwise:

Originally Posted By Jimmy_Hoffa:
Ironically, if you go over to 1919a4.com, they all talk about getting down right run out of ranges for haveing a semi auto 1919. People run to the range officer "that man has an illegal machine gun". In my book a snich is just about as low as a child molester! I have no respect for any do-gooders that go running to the "authoritys" because they think they "caught" me doing something wrong. If I didn't do it TOO YOU, then SHUT THE FUCK UP!



I think it's funny that your screenname is "Jimmy Hoffa!" Fits your personality...



Jwise, thanks I just spewed my lunch on my keyboard! bahahahah!
Top Top