Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 3/20/2006 8:21:47 PM EDT
I shot my Dept's rifle qual course today. First up was my Bushmaster AR-15 I carry on duty. It is equipped with an Eotech and vertical foregrip. Then I shot the course with my Polish AKMS-47.

The course of fire consisted of 10 rounds from the 50yd line: 6 kneeling, 4 prone. Then we advanced to the 40yd line, 30yd line, 20yd line, and 15yd line, firing from behind cover (a barrel) on each side. All movement and shooting was on the shooter's initiative, with a mandatory reload somewhere along the way (30rds divided between two mags.) Then we advanced to the 10yd line and put two in the head without cover. Not very complicated, but it got us shooting and moving quite a bit. The barrels were laid out in a zig-zag pattern, so the movement was more than just a straight line.

With the AK, I was able to achieve the same accuracy on target (100% in the target zone) as the AR, but I must admit I was a lot slower in getting those hits. Settling down for the shots from behind cover took a lot longer than with the Eotech equipped AR. I didn't find the lack of a VFG to affect anything, as I just grabbed the AK by the front of the magazine. I find myself doing the same with my AR, even though it's got the VFG!

After the course, I had the range to myself for a few minutes, and practiced "walking in" my shots from the 25yd line. I came up on target, duckwalked towad my target, and fired at will as I found my target in the sights. I had to slow down a LOT more with the AK to keep a sight picture while walking. It seemed almost "too easy" with the Eotech equipped AR.

Some of this is the result of lack of training with the AK on my part. I need to practice a LOT more to gain proficiency with the different platform. But I can't help but think that even if I mastered the AK, without an electronic red dot sight I would never be able to keep up with my AR.

Either way, I'm excited to keep taking it out to the qual course and practicing with it. I really enjoy shooting it, and like its "payload!" I'm a big fan of 7.62X39.

I wish I could have taken some pictures, but it was just me and the range officer out there, and he was busy watching/scoring to take pics.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 8:42:11 PM EDT
Well if you are interested in mastering your AK you should grab a copy of the dvd "Beyond the Firearm, The AK-47/74 in CQB" by former Russian Spetsnaz operator Saulius "Sonny" Puzikas, i got a copy and needless to say now my handleing of the weapon has greatly improved. Im faster on target, i can deploy the AK quickly and shoot accurately from nearly any position. He discusses ambidextrous weapon handling of the AK, reloading drills, reaction drills, movement, and hand to hand with the AK.

Also as a side note i use an EKP-1S-03M Kobra Russian red dot type sight. Very similar in design and application to the EOTech. Might want to think about something like that.

Think about it this way, I would venture to say that with enough practice on any comparable platform you would be able to acheve similar shooting abilities apart from limitations of a particular caliber or round. Sure there will always be slight differences in mag change time and methods of handleing, but lets face it, if all you ever knew was the AK, dont you think you would be pretty damn good at employing it? Its either that or you die..you know?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:00:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 9:02:29 PM EDT by clange]

After the course, I had the range to myself for a few minutes, and practiced "walking in" my shots from the 25yd line. I came up on target, duckwalked towad my target, and fired at will as I found my target in the sights. I had to slow down a LOT more with the AK to keep a sight picture while walking. It seemed almost "too easy" with the Eotech equipped AR.

Some of this is the result of lack of training with the AK on my part. I need to practice a LOT more to gain proficiency with the different platform. But I can't help but think that even if I mastered the AK, without an electronic red dot sight I would never be able to keep up with my AR.


Yep, makes sense. You have a rifle with more recoil, and no red dot. It would be harder to get back on target then the 5.56 no matter what, plus you have to get a sight picture again.

If you had a 74 with a kobra things would probably be a lot more even.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:03:02 PM EDT
You should convince your Department to grab a forward mount for the AK, and then the EOtech can ride on it too!

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:02:44 AM EDT
get a Kobra on a SIDE MOUNT,...also the -47's recoil is a bit more than the ar's,....get a 5.56 AK or a AK-74,...and recoil will no longer be a issue

i have a Arsenal SA-M5,.. as soon as i get a Kobra on it im going to do a few rifle comps.,..im sure it will be on par with whats out there.

GuitarGuy,.. can i borrow that DVD for a day? i've got 7-1/2 years behind a M-16/M-4,...so i can work one with my eyes closed,..but it would be nice to get some pointers on the AK platform.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:14:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 12:14:50 AM EDT by clange]

get a Kobra on a SIDE MOUNT

I agree that would make a big difference, but it really changes the whole weapon. I think he was just getting some time in with his underfolder. Practice should help with that, but sights and recoil are a problem compared to an AR+eotech.

Put a rail and a kobra on an AK with a folder and it basically becomes a fixed stock. It kind of loses some of its charm when the folding stock is negated.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:19:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kalash_223:
You should convince your Department to grab a forward mount for the AK, and then the EOtech can ride on it too!

www.ultimak.com/gallery/USArmyLTC.jpg



I've got one, but I didn't like it too much. Of course, it was probably just the "purist" in me wanting to revert it back to its "authentic" look!



It was also sitting very high on the rifle, and it was difficult to get a good cheek/chin weld with it. Accuracy suffered. I switched to an Aimpoint clone, to see if I would prefer it sitting lower than the Eotech.



I didn't like that optic to begin with. The 'on' switch was mushy, and the mount wasn't low enough. To get what I REALLY wanted would have cost $350 MORE than what I spent already.

That rifle now looks like this:



Neither my AKMS-47, nor the AK pictured have a side scope rail, so if I want an optic, it's got to be with the Ultimak. Who knows, I might try it again.

At the time, I wasn't really shooting that AK in action sports or courses of fire, so the optic was mainly a gimmick. Now that I'm running them in action shooting situations, the optic might find its way back onto the rifle, or perhaps onto my underfolder.

I just hate to take off nice wood stocks for a black piece of aluminum! That Bulgarian birch wood looks SO much nicer.

Here's my underfolder. It's got a 3-point sling on it.



I'm already looking forward to NEXT month!

*by the way, these are all personally owned. The dept issues a Mini-14, which I detest.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:29:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cruzie27:
get a Kobra on a SIDE MOUNT,...also the -47's recoil is a bit more than the ar's,....get a 5.56 AK or a AK-74,...and recoil will no longer be a issue

i have a Arsenal SA-M5,.. as soon as i get a Kobra on it im going to do a few rifle comps.,..im sure it will be on par with whats out there.



I have no desire for either a .223 or a 5.45 AK. What I like about it IS the caliber. If I wanted a light and fast, I'd stick to my AR. I like having both, because the 7.62 offers more penetration of cover than the 5.56. It's also good for vehicle threats. Punches through glass with limited loss of stopping power. 5.56 through glass becomes 22 win mag (you get the point.)

I'm probably just going to stick with my iron sights for a while, until I get a lot better with the simple things, like mag changes. I won't worry about the optics for now.

I know the Kobra is more authentic to the AK, since it's Russian and all. But if I were to put a rail on my Bulgarian, then buy the Kobra, that would end up around the same price as an Aimpoint with low pro mount. I think I'd rather have the Aimpoint.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 1:05:59 AM EDT
i completly missed the fact you had a underfolder,....that pretty much counts out a wooden vert grip,. and a side rail.

on the Bulgy if you do put a side rail on it there is a weaver adaptor that allows you to put a Aimpoint or Eotech/ whatever else you want on it,..last time i checked they where only 39-40 bucks,.. and the rail is about 20 and is pretty easy to put on.look around at K-VAR

also look into a overmolded pistol grip for your -47,...i could never stand the skinny grips on any of my AK's or on anything Uncle Sugar issued,...it may make it a little more comfy for you


Put a rail and a kobra on an AK with a folder and it basically becomes a fixed stock. It kind of loses some of its charm when the folding stock is negated.


all of the right side folding stocks are like that,.. on my AKS-74,..AK-104,...AKS-74U i can not fold and latch the stock with anything on the rail.

unless your in a vehicle of some type,.. if you are shooting,....and actually trying to hit your target the stock will be extended anyway,...otherwise with the stock folded,..you are just blasting away with a big assed pistol.

the whole reason for the underfolders and side folders is so that they can be carried easier by mechanised,..tank,.. and helo crews,.. but they can easily turn it into a full stocked rifle if they need to put foot to ass.

now the Romy,.. E.G.,.. and i think ACE folders are left side folders,.. which means the optics can stay on weather the stock is folded or not,.. just makes the charging handle hard to get to sometimes.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:46:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:34:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 6:37:52 AM EDT by jwise]

Originally Posted By cruzie27:
i completly missed the fact you had a underfolder,....that pretty much counts out a wooden vert grip,. and a side rail.

on the Bulgy if you do put a side rail on it there is a weaver adaptor that allows you to put a Aimpoint or Eotech/ whatever else you want on it,..last time i checked they where only 39-40 bucks,.. and the rail is about 20 and is pretty easy to put on.look around at K-VAR

also look into a overmolded pistol grip for your -47,...i could never stand the skinny grips on any of my AK's or on anything Uncle Sugar issued,...it may make it a little more comfy for you


Put a rail and a kobra on an AK with a folder and it basically becomes a fixed stock. It kind of loses some of its charm when the folding stock is negated.





You mean like this?



Same problem as before when I had it on the Ultimak. It puts it WAY too high for anything but "heads up" shooting. It's fine for quick shooting at close ranges (CQB), but for any accuracy it really sucks!

It's a lot like mounting an optic on the carry handle of an AR. Too damn high.

I feel like I have a poor attitude, and keep dumping on everyone's ideas. I really appreciate the helpful advice, and welcome more, but this isn't a new issue for me. I have already tried several options so far.

BTW- I REALLY like that red/black dot sight that mounts to the side rail. Very nice piece of kit! Anybody know how high it sits?
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:06:06 AM EDT
dont discount the Kobra, you could get a ULTIMAK gas tube rail and mount the weaver style kobra on that, your aimpoint wont give you 16 levels of brightness selection, and 4 seperate reticle choices, not to mention that its aiming dot is 1.8 MOA, very close to the EOTech you are used to.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:12:44 AM EDT
cruzie27: email sent regarding the DVD
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:32:07 AM EDT
Screw red dots on the AK platform. Kalashnikovs are like glocks, throw some night sights on it and leave it the hell alone. An XS tritium front sight for the AK will draw your eyes to the front sight for faster aquisition and shooting. It will never be as fast as your EOteched AR, but fast enough.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 9:02:14 AM EDT

all of the right side folding stocks are like that,.. on my AKS-74,..AK-104,...AKS-74U i can not fold and latch the stock with anything on the rail.

unless your in a vehicle of some type,.. if you are shooting,....and actually trying to hit your target the stock will be extended anyway,...otherwise with the stock folded,..you are just blasting away with a big assed pistol.

the whole reason for the underfolders and side folders is so that they can be carried easier by mechanised,..tank,.. and helo crews,.. but they can easily turn it into a full stocked rifle if they need to put foot to ass.


Yeah, I know they're basically for storage/transport, but its tougher to transport two items, then unfold the stock and attach the second item to the first before the rifle is ready in the configuration you want.

Maybe I should just shoot more with the irons. But I love the kobra. Bah.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 9:21:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:
Screw red dots on the AK platform. Kalashnikovs are like glocks, throw some night sights on it and leave it the hell alone. An XS tritium front sight for the AK will draw your eyes to the front sight for faster aquisition and shooting. It will never be as fast as your EOteched AR, but fast enough.



That's kinda what I've done. I have offered to sell off the Ultimak, K-VAR rail, Tacpoint, etc., but I haven't found any buyers yet. Who knows, I might go back some day...

But for now, I'm just enjoying shooting the rifles "as is."
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 9:40:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:36:21 PM EDT






any questions.....
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:28:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DrugRunR:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/cmepw/rifles/DSC05845.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/cmepw/rifles/DSC05849.jpg



any questions.....



I dislike you so, so much.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:18:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DrugRunR:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/cmepw/rifles/DSC05845.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/cmepw/rifles/DSC05849.jpg

any questions.....



yeah thats basically what i want,.. but on a milled reciver
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:28:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DrugRunR:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/cmepw/rifles/DSC05845.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/cmepw/rifles/DSC05849.jpg



any questions.....



That looks like a fun gun!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 9:02:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jwise:

Originally Posted By DrugRunR:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/cmepw/rifles/DSC05845.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/cmepw/rifles/DSC05849.jpg



any questions.....



That looks like a fun gun!



there is no way to describe how nice the Krinkov's (AKS-74U's)are if you have never handled one and got to put some rounds down range with one,

like i said the one i want to build is just like that,.. but with a milled reciver for 5.56 to match my Arsenal SA-M5

if you dont have one,.. look into getting one,....or having one made,...you can even get it in 7.62 if you find the right sized barrel (the Saiga 7.62 barrels fit the 74 style trunnions)

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:20:23 PM EDT
I threw the Ultimak on my underfolder. Here's a pic of the rail on the rifle.



Here's a picture of the Eotech mounted.



And finally, I was handling my VEPR and decided the Eotech was too close to my face with the K-VAR mount, and so I forward mounted it on the rail. It looks kinda stupid, sticking out like that, but it works a lot better!



I decided I didn't like the optic on the underfolder, so I pulled it back off. I'm going to take the VEPR to the range next time, and see how I do with that.

I just hate to see my "authentic" looking AKs get messed up with accessories. I can accessorize the HELL out of my VEPR, as it never did look authentic.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 3:45:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrugRunR:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/cmepw/rifles/DSC05845.jpg
any questions.....


Yep: where have you purchaised black 45rd mag on the top picture?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 1:55:53 AM EDT
tag
Top Top