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Posted: 3/16/2006 8:24:08 PM EDT
Based on the interest I've seen since I've lurked here the past few years, and posting recently, I might be importing on a limited basis Soviet/Chinese mags (bakelite/waffle/slabside), soviet era rigs, and domestically manufactured stuff by Pashtun craftsmen, like assault rigs, slings, furniture, etc. Maybe some copies of the soviet invasion era afghan rugs, and clothing, if you really got to have that massoud hat. I'll be getting this stuff from friends of my family and I'll be getting it in Peshawar (with the biggest market in the NWFP) and Dara Adam Khel (the famous gunmaking city in the NWFP)

However, since I can’t stand others gouging their customers in the gun world, specifically on rare soviet/chicom mags, I’m not going to do the same. Also, if you’re thinking about cleaning me out of 10 soviet 7.62 bakelites at a time and selling them off at god knows what market prices over time, forget it! I probably won’t sell more than 2, maybe 3 mags of the same type to anybody. But don’t expect me to give them away either.

The mags/soviet rigs will probably be at ½ market value, but I can’t promise that. Clothing prices will be fluid. But I’ll have see if the friends of my family in the NWFP are willing to do this, what is available, how much the stuff costs, how much they want for their trouble, how much the shipping is and how many guns and accessories I want to buy this year how much of a nice guy I am.

BTW, if you saw something cool in the wire service dispatches from over there and you want it (besides Khan Gul Achmeds Type-1 AK-47 underfolder), post a pic of it here. I know most of the lingo they use to describe guns/parts over there, but pictures would help them (yes they have the internet).
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 8:34:38 PM EDT
a afgan war rug would be super,.. or even just a afgan or paki flag. kind of you to do this
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 8:43:08 PM EDT
roger, war rug would be nice
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:54:59 PM EDT
I just got off IM with my friend there.

According to him the war rugs are all over the place in Peshawar, so he's going to send me some rugs and a couple soviet era chest pouches. I'll have to ask about the flags.

We need to check on the legalities of getting mags out of Pakistan though. Cross your fingers. Anything roughly similar in Pakistan is going to be about the same price as here in America, the difference is they don't care if it's a Bakelite Tula AKM mag or a Romanian steel mag. Why would they? One works just as good as the other.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 11:11:34 PM EDT
I'd be up for some mags. Sounds like you have some interesting times ahead.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 11:50:01 PM EDT
I'll try to avoid becoming chief thunder's cell mate.

If I could get 2-4 bulk shipments in a year, maybe 50-100 mags each shipment, + rugs, pouches, slings, etc, I'd be extremely happy.

What's a good business name?

Crazy Achmed's Soviet Surplus
we don't just slash our prices, we behead them!
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 12:49:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 12:54:31 AM EDT by Stottman]

Originally Posted By aurang:
I'll try to avoid becoming chief thunder's cell mate.

If I could get 2-4 bulk shipments in a year, maybe 50-100 mags each shipment, + rugs, pouches, slings, etc, I'd be extremely happy.

What's a good business name?

Crazy Achmed's Soviet Surplus
we don't just slash our prices, we behead them!



That many mags is easily into the Form 6 area..... If you had someone from there ship the individual orders direct from Pakistan thatw would work, but trying to get that many mags in at one time is a big customs risk..


Not trying to discourage, but offer realistic advice as I have experience in the magazine, canvas, etc area..

Best of luck..

Also, keep in mind that the Pakistanis make fake Russian bakelites, down to the markings... If they have a clover (almost like the 4H clover) on one side, they are Pakistani made.

I would be down for this stock set-
This what looks like a locally modified Russian gun; It was captured by British soldiers in Afganistan.




There is also a full sized AK74 in the same style.

Link Posted: 3/17/2006 1:29:01 AM EDT
Ah, that's something I was unclear on, looks like you're right and magazines probably fall under parts/implements of war though. So it Looks like my existing company, United Armaments, Inc, will be applying for that pesky 08 importers FFL again. This time thankfully I have a fixed business address.

I don't think rugs, chest pouches and slings fall under implements of war, so I can get these in quick.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 1:50:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By aurang:
Ah, that's something I was unclear on, looks like you're right and magazines probably fall under parts/implements of war though. So it Looks like my existing company, United Armaments, Inc, will be applying for that pesky 08 importers FFL again. This time thankfully I have a fixed business address.

I don't think rugs, chest pouches and slings fall under implements of war, so I can get these in quick.



If you are going to go 100% white side, why not look at importing numbers of Pakistani made AKs? I am sure that they can modify them to semi, to meet US import specs, etc...
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 2:11:24 AM EDT
Funny you should mention that, since they can make copies of anything in Dara Adam Khel, and their propensity to copy stuff, I've toyed with the idea of getting them to make perfect copies of rare firearms that are insanely priced here, like broomhandle mausers, artillery lugers, etc.

Not sure about getting AK's from the Pak Arsenals in Taxila, I don't even think they are exporting due to the domestic demand from the military. Plus you would have to deal with the issues of large investment, etc. I can certainly look into maybe getting complete part sets though. From what I've seen, they produce very good quality AK's.

I'm sure they could do anything in Dara No warrantee from Ali though.

Is gun furniture considered something you need a license to import? I could probably get just about any kind of wood stocks anyone would need, pleanty of trees in the hindu kush, no hippies... at least not since Bin Laden set up his McTerrorist camps there.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 2:31:50 AM EDT



Is gun furniture considered something you need a license to import? I could probably get just about any kind of wood stocks anyone would need, pleanty of trees in the hindu kush, no hippies... at least not since Bin Laden set up his McTerrorist camps there.



Yes.. Everything related to an AK does.. Canvas items, etc are mentioned specifically in the ATF import guide book as not needing one...

Link Posted: 3/17/2006 2:44:03 AM EDT
If you have trouble getting any of the clothing items, I have access to a lot of that sort of thing as well. Let me know and mabye we can get something going. --ST
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 10:43:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By aurang:
I'll try to avoid becoming chief thunder's cell mate.

If I could get 2-4 bulk shipments in a year, maybe 50-100 mags each shipment, + rugs, pouches, slings, etc, I'd be extremely happy.

What's a good business name?

Crazy Achmed's Soviet Surplus
we don't just slash our prices, we behead them!



LMAO!,...or ALI BA'BA's PARTS?,..UNCLE ACHMED's,.....have a guy on the bussness card smoking out of a big assed Hookah with a AK in his lap,.and a sword in his belt,.with a green headband and all

mags and stocksets would be killer,....but you would have to dance around a few laws and have a friend in another (european) country recive them from paki. and then send them here.

i could be done,.. but will take an exorbant amount of time to get here though.

id be happy with the rugs and some other little things from that corner of the world

and if you can get copy cat Ali to make the rear hinge block from a AKS-74U that would make me do back flips
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 1:33:53 PM EDT
anyone know where i can get a bolt carrier with the upward bolt handle?
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 8:06:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kletus:
anyone know where i can get a bolt carrier with the upward bolt handle?



Dara Adam Khel. If you can't find it there they will make it for you.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 9:37:45 AM EDT
I want a set of the silly ass furniture covers they make out of leather & the glittery material. A matching sling would be sweet.

I'd buy one of the Paki-made "clover-leaf" Russian copy mags, too.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 12:39:58 PM EDT
I am glad to see someone not trying to gauge the shit out of us! I am interested and will buy from you. Thanks!
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 12:47:31 PM EDT
mmmmmm..... paki bakelite...... mmmmmmm
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 7:26:36 PM EDT
Hmm, maybe some tea? I'd like to check out some war rugs or a hat as well.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:19:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 12:29:07 AM EDT by Garand_Shooter]

Originally Posted By aurang:
Funny you should mention that, since they can make copies of anything in Dara Adam Khel, and their propensity to copy stuff, I've toyed with the idea of getting them to make perfect copies of rare firearms that are insanely priced here, like broomhandle mausers, artillery lugers, etc.

Not sure about getting AK's from the Pak Arsenals in Taxila, I don't even think they are exporting due to the domestic demand from the military. Plus you would have to deal with the issues of large investment, etc. I can certainly look into maybe getting complete part sets though. From what I've seen, they produce very good quality AK's.

I'm sure they could do anything in Dara No warrantee from Ali though.

Is gun furniture considered something you need a license to import? I could probably get just about any kind of wood stocks anyone would need, pleanty of trees in the hindu kush, no hippies... at least not since Bin Laden set up his McTerrorist camps there.



Every single Pakistani made firearm or accessory we have seen has been of dubious quality, at best. Any other captured weapons we turn over to the ANA if they are servicacble, but they won't take any Pakistani made ones. Taking to the OGA/OCF/ETT guys here they all say the same thing, that you are taking your life in your hands if you use one. They make it a point to not allow any of the Pakistani copies to be used by any local forces they work with.

That is reflected in prices as well, a brand new Pakistani version of anything sells for 10-20% of what a 20 year old Russian piece does in the local bazzar.

And there are no "perfect copies"..... you can tell quite easily. Even in the rare cases they have managed to copy Russian of Chicom arsenal markings well, the quality of the metal and machine work is still a dead giveaway.

This is what I have seen from having looked at 100 or so Pakistani made weapons of various types while I was here, form Makerov's to AK's to local designs, and having cut most of them up with a torch because they were useless and we didn't want anyone to get hurt by them.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 7:40:45 AM EDT
Yeah, like I said, no warantee from Ali in Dara.

Over there if it blows up, your relatives track down the gunsmith. Usually what they have works. But, that's why I don't want to get into selling metal parts, or complete guns.

As for copies, even experts say the very best copies that are made in Dara can not be readily told apart from the originals. Now what you see in afghanland might not be exactly the top of the line.

Still, they make all sorts of odd stuff in that town.

But like I said, the non firearms parts I can probably get pretty soon. I'm going to contact the BATFE field branch in Phoenix monday and get the ball rolling on the FFL.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 8:28:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By aurang:
Yeah, like I said, no warantee from Ali in Dara.

Over there if it blows up, your relatives track down the gunsmith. Usually what they have works. But, that's why I don't want to get into selling metal parts, or complete guns.

As for copies, even experts say the very best copies that are made in Dara can not be readily told apart from the originals. Now what you see in afghanland might not be exactly the top of the line.

Still, they make all sorts of odd stuff in that town.

But like I said, the non firearms parts I can probably get pretty soon. I'm going to contact the BATFE field branch in Phoenix monday and get the ball rolling on the FFL.



I've seen some heavily decorated AK and Enfield stock sets that were pretty interesting.. Magazines, bayonets, handgun grips.. Anything where the metallurgy isn't a concern.

Come to think of it, I would definitely have to look at one of the whacky tribal Enfield stock sets. Antique decorated Martinis and such brought in as wallhangers would be neat too, but you might want to specify their decorative nature to any buyers. Forcefully.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 9:06:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By aurang:
Yeah, like I said, no warantee from Ali in Dara.

Over there if it blows up, your relatives track down the gunsmith. Usually what they have works. But, that's why I don't want to get into selling metal parts, or complete guns.

As for copies, even experts say the very best copies that are made in Dara can not be readily told apart from the originals. Now what you see in afghanland might not be exactly the top of the line.

Still, they make all sorts of odd stuff in that town.

But like I said, the non firearms parts I can probably get pretty soon. I'm going to contact the BATFE field branch in Phoenix monday and get the ball rolling on the FFL.



Actually you normally can tell if you know what to look for.. The most obvios thing is that they miss little things collectors pick up on.. For example, this AKSU is dated 1995.. Tula didnt make any AKSUs that year...

The famous Russian AKMS carbine (short AKMS) from the Tokoi book is actually a Pakistani copy for example... Besides the Chinese receiver, its mismatched... By a large margin.. I
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:35:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By aurang:
Yeah, like I said, no warantee from Ali in Dara.

Over there if it blows up, your relatives track down the gunsmith. Usually what they have works. But, that's why I don't want to get into selling metal parts, or complete guns.

As for copies, even experts say the very best copies that are made in Dara can not be readily told apart from the originals. Now what you see in afghanland might not be exactly the top of the line.

Still, they make all sorts of odd stuff in that town.

But like I said, the non firearms parts I can probably get pretty soon. I'm going to contact the BATFE field branch in Phoenix monday and get the ball rolling on the FFL.



Actually you normally can tell if you know what to look for.. The most obvios thing is that they miss little things collectors pick up on.. For example, this AKSU is dated 1995.. Tula didnt make any AKSUs that year...

The famous Russian AKMS carbine (short AKMS) from the Tokoi book is actually a Pakistani copy for example... Besides the Chinese receiver, its mismatched... By a large margin.. I



Some of what I have noticed:

A big giveaway is bolt carriers that are either painted with no finish underneath or, more common, a very bright nickel finish.

Finish will almost always be either a poor blueing (a definate blueish tint) or spray paint. The blued rifles rust very, very easily. Often the spray painted ones will have been painted with the bolt carrier inside so the part visible from the ejection port is painted, but inside the reciver is not. I have yet to see a Pakistani rifle that was parkerized.

Many serial numbers are obviously done in electropencil. Others are poorly spaced or aligned, done with mismatched font, or too large a font. Some have no serial numbers.

Poor steel and crappy springs. The selector, fire control group, and barrel are most of what I have seen bad. The selector has been broken on quite a few I have seen, all had weak springs (20 year old russian AK's still had better springs than brand new Pakistani). The same was true for the Makerov copies I have seen. Bulged or blown barrels are common..... the locals tell me dumping a mag through a Pakistani AK on full auto is a sure way to blow it up, but I don't think I will be trying.

Rifling is hit or miss. I have seen some that looked good, some with two lands, some with one land, and one that appeared to have none. The majority however had very shallow grooves.

Bolt carrier and bolt are not interchangable between the Pakistani models and any others, but I can swap Chinese, Russian, etc with each other all day long.The bolt is sized different, the rails seem to be mounted closer to the top of the reciever, and on some the reciever actually appeared to be a bit narrower.

Most are underfolders. The wood is usually very nice.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 6:37:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 44rdv4rk:
mmmmmm..... paki bakelite...... mmmmmmm



+1 on the Paky mags, war rugs, hell ANYTHING you can get for a decent price!!
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