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Posted: 3/15/2006 11:52:49 AM EDT
Hi All,

Just got a new smith enterprises vortex flash hider for my Arsenal SAM-5. The vortex does not have an notch for the retaining pin (wish it did). Therefore I'm a little concerned about it falling off/coming loose. What would be the best way to secure this flash hider without making it permanent? I was thinking some locktite or something like that.
Also, will keeping the retaining pin compressed like this for long periods damage the spring?

thanks!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:05:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 12:05:40 PM EDT by hkinfl]
I personally would notch it with a dremel. Tighten it up all the way, then back of a little, mark it, then dremel!! I know you said non-perm, this is what I would do.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:09:37 PM EDT
I was thinking about that, but wonder if it would mess with the resonant qualities of the tines?


Originally Posted By hkinfl:
I personally would notch it with a dremel. Tighten it up all the way, then back of a little, mark it, then dremel!! I know you said non-perm, this is what I would do.

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:12:42 PM EDT
If it was tight, I think the metal is thick enough that it would be OK. Once my sa-m5 gets here (next week) I think I'm going to get one of the special long bulgy one, or a copy. I'm guessing the sell the vortex in the correct thread pattern?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:14:28 PM EDT
Yup, the vortex is sold in 14 LH threads to fit the AK47 threads perfectly.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:22:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 12:22:52 PM EDT by Mak]

Originally Posted By hkinfl:
If it was tight, I think the metal is thick enough that it would be OK. Once my sa-m5 gets here (next week) I think I'm going to get one of the special long bulgy one, or a copy. I'm guessing the sell the vortex in the correct thread pattern?



I think cutting a notch would be best if you can dremel. Could probably clean it up with a file afterwards.

blackjackbuffers.com has the bulgy type flashhiders with adapter for $50.00 The odd thing is his say 22mm thread with the 14x1lh adapter whereas the on I got from a vender here on this board had 24X1.5 Right Hand Threads and you could get they adapter for more. I wonder if blackjack buffers mistakenly got the threads listed incorrectly?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:33:14 PM EDT
Notch the Vortex? Uh, no! The Vortex is a self-tightening design. Just put it on and after about 10-15 rounds the Vortex is about where you want it be torque-wise. Generally, the Vortex is attached with no more than 10-15 pounds of torque -- that's all. If you're really anal about this I suppose you could put some blue Loctite on and then fire the weapon immediately. You should be dialed in. frankly, I would not worry about the Loctite. The Vortex has stayed on just fine on my SAM-5S. The high speed guys that occassionally use the AK who have also procurred the Vortex (for which it was designed, incidentally) report the same thing.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:35:37 PM EDT
+1 Self tightening. No need for anything to hold it on. (As long as it is a true Vortex with the angle cut prings).
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:58:41 PM EDT
Hi Guys,

Yes it is a true vortex with the 15 degree prongs, purchased directly from smith enterprises.

I just am not convinced that the "self tightening" is significant enough...how much rotational force can the muzzle blast really generate?

Also, where did you get the 10-15 pounds of torque? Is this official info from smith enterprises?

And really, the vortex cost me $55...it would have been nice for them to invest a little more time and put a notch in there for the AK...would not have hurt anything and would allow us to use the AK notch pin as god intended.

I don't want the thing coming lose during transport in between firings.

thanks for all your help regarding this very trivial, anal, and ultimately inconsequential topic.


Originally Posted By mach6:
Notch the Vortex? Uh, no! The Vortex is a self-tightening design. Just put it on and after about 10-15 rounds the Vortex is about where you want it be torque-wise. Generally, the Vortex is attached with no more than 10-15 pounds of torque -- that's all. If you're really anal about this I suppose you could put some blue Loctite on and then fire the weapon immediately. You should be dialed in. frankly, I would not worry about the Loctite. The Vortex has stayed on just fine on my SAM-5S. The high speed guys that occassionally use the AK who have also procurred the Vortex (for which it was designed, incidentally) report the same thing.

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:11:54 PM EDT
BTW, the Vortex's are supposed to be very hard so if you do notch it realize it may be very hard on your tools. FWIW, I've never heard of any problems with them coming loose.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:37:26 PM EDT
Don't notch anything. I tighten them hand tight on my AR's and they have never come loose. In fact, they are tough to loosen by hand. Don't you think Smith would have notched it if it was meant to be notched?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:23:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunnut284:
+1 Self tightening. No need for anything to hold it on. (As long as it is a true Vortex with the angle cut prings).



+1 the real Vortex's kick ass,....i have one on the way from a guy on another forum,.. i dont know if it is a real Vortex or not,.. but he did cut a notch in it already,.. as long as it kills the recoil and flash i'll be a very happy camper,.... if not,.. im going to toss it in the river and drop the coin for a smith ent. one.

just in case,..anyone got a link?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:44:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cruzie27:
just in case,..anyone got a link?



Smith Ent
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:58:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 6:41:20 PM EDT by mach6]
Ok, guys...let's agree not to put a notch in the back of the Vortex! And ten-to-foot pounds (max) is comes directly from SEI. Also, remember, these puppies are surface 55-58 RC. Core hardness is equally up there -- I'll leave it at that. Have fun with your tools. They are built like the tanks they are. The Canadian Forces (C-8, C-6, C-9) and the USN (MK14) to cite but a few examples, have no tolerance for anything less than perfection. Same goes with certain US agencies (to include those with the AK Vortexii).
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 12:29:13 PM EDT
ttt
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 2:36:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cruzie27:
[...as long as it kills the recoil and flash i'll be a very happy camper,.... .



Vortexes kill flash, they do nothing for recoil.

+(whatever the count is now) on don't notch, just tighten and it WILL keep itself torqued.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 3:17:40 PM EDT
Can someone who has the vortex installed on their AK's, show a pic?
I am curious as to how they look on an AK.

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 5:47:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 5:51:21 PM EDT by mach6]

Originally Posted By alex9483:
Can someone who has the vortex installed on their AK's, show a pic?
I am curious as to how they look on an AK.




Not the best pic of my SAM-5S, but you get the drift.



For more insight, I suggest folks read:

http://www.smithenterprise.com/spec/Vortex_AK47AKM.pdf
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 2:35:19 PM EDT
"I personally would notch it with a dremel"

Ditto. Crank it on good & tight, note indexing position, then notch it.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 3:35:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 3:37:58 PM EDT by Mak]
Actually, now that someone has posted a picture of one mounted on an AK, I wouldn't use it at all as it looks like crap. Of course, I don't put TAPCO on my rifles either. I go for a more traditional look.

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