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Posted: 3/8/2006 8:01:47 PM EDT
This question is an obvious no-brainer, but I want to see what you guys will say.

I already have an AK47, but would want a shotgun later.

I have a lot of close neighbors in all directions except my backyard.

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:04:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 8:08:01 PM EDT by Mr45auto]
I suppose if you're an AK guy and want a shotty here's the ideal answer.


Look at Tony Rumore's Saiga shotgun conversions.

www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm

I have personally seen an OR members shotty from Tromix and can say the workmanship was outstanding. I'd love to have one of his guns. It was truly awesome.

I'm a former AK owner and can take or leave em. I'm not particularly impressed by the AK platform but Tony's work could definitely change that. Everything about that shotgun screamed "holy crap"!!!
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:20:14 PM EDT
Well I wouldn't want you to use an AK for home defense if I was your neighbor, and you wouldn't want me to use one if you were mine. Too much penetration.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:21:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Well I wouldn't want you to use an AK for home defense if I was your neighbor, and you wouldn't want me to use one if you were mine. Too much penetration.




Read the Box of truth
Anything that will penetrate a man enough to reliably stop him, will also penetrate walls.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:23:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
I suppose if you're an AK guy and want a shotty here's the ideal answer.


Look at Tony Rumore's Saiga shotgun conversions.

www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm

I have personally seen an OR members shotty from Tromix and can say the workmanship was outstanding. I'd love to have one of his guns. It was truly awesome.

I'm a former AK owner and can take or leave em. I'm not particularly impressed by the AK platform but Tony's work could definitely change that. Everything about that shotgun screamed "holy crap"!!!




I have a Tromix Saiga 12 conversion, and it does indeed scream "HOLY CRAP!!!"
Besides, how often do you get a chance to buy one gun and still "get both"?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:26:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 8:27:16 PM EDT by cruzie27]
dident you say you had a XD?,....in your situation,.. i think the little springfield will do just fine,...a 12ga pump would be nicer, and have more of a effect when you rack the slide to load a round into the chamber,........everyone knows that sound,...even if you have never heard it before.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:30:58 PM EDT
Both!!!
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:31:30 PM EDT
just get a 12 ga pump that works reliably


say if you get sued for wrongful death of the CRIMINAL, then the attny pulls out that you used a evil AK assault rifle to take down their wonderful, loving CRIMINAL... i think it might cause a unfair bias

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:01:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 9:03:13 PM EDT by Kyarguy]

Originally Posted By cruzie27:
,...a 12ga pump would be nicer, and have more of a effect when you rack the slide to load a round into the chamber



I think that whole "Rack the slide" thing is a bunch of B.S.
If there is a bad guy in the house, and i have the shotgun, and if he has a gun and decides to
point it at me, he wont be hearing me "Rack the slide".

He's going to hear....... KA-BOOM!!


Originally Posted By cruzie27:...everyone knows that sound,...even if you have never heard it before.


HUH?? You have to explain this one to me...That makes no logical sense.
How would someone know what the hell it was if they have never heard it??

Example: If you had never heard a jet plane before, you are telling me that you would know it was a jet plane if you heard it, even though you had never heard it.

Somebodys been watching too many TV cop shows lately.

KyARGuy
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:11:14 PM EDT
An AK in 5.56/.223 chambering would be better than a shotgun: just as leathal but much less dangerous than shotgun or pistol ammo when going through walls, hence safer for your neighbors. A 7.62 AK would be more dangerous to nearby neighbors.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:51:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ligament:
An AK in 5.56/.223 chambering would be better than a shotgun: just as leathal(sp?) but much less dangerous than shotgun or pistol ammo when going through walls, hence safer for your neighbors.



Once again...HUH?? This statement makes no sense at all. Explain to me how a AK in .223 with a bullet exiting at ~3000 fps is less dangerous going through a wall than a shotgun loaded with #4 birdshot traveling ~1300 fps??

A .223/5.56 is going to whistle right through a wall like it wasnt even there. Id much rather
take a chance on hiding behind an average house wall with someone shooting at me with a shotgun
rather than a .223 rifle.

Take a day and go out and build some walls out of 2x4's and 1/2" wall board and do some testing
to see just what goes through what at different ranges.

The shotgun will be the safest to your neighbors. The rifle would be more dangerous than the pistol,
but not by much.

KyARGuy
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:15:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 10:15:51 PM EDT by coltshorty14]
I keep my 870 in my bedroom. Loaded with 8 rounds of #1 buck.. I'll use that to fight my way to the gun room, where I have 2 75 rounders loaded, and my AK to slap them in..

If the shotgun isn't enough, of course..
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:49:42 PM EDT
Saiga-12

More tromix work..
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:04:59 PM EDT
Hay coltshorty, I like #1 buck...........I once opened one up and it had not 16 but 17 buckshots in it!!!! im not sure if thats normal but i thought it was great!
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:25:59 PM EDT
Mossberg 500. Cheap, and easy to handle in the dark. Like a whore hiding in your closet.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:42:58 PM EDT
I say buy both in one SAGIA 12 ak that is a 12 gauge I love my saiga 12
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:28:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kyarguy:

Originally Posted By cruzie27:
,...a 12ga pump would be nicer, and have more of a effect when you rack the slide to load a round into the chamber



I think that whole "Rack the slide" thing is a bunch of B.S.
If there is a bad guy in the house, and i have the shotgun, and if he has a gun and decides to
point it at me, he wont be hearing me "Rack the slide".

He's going to hear....... KA-BOOM!!

one of those typs huh?,...personally i dont give a damn what you do in your house,.. but if your so set on killing,.. you better make sure he has a weapon that is a threat to you and your family,..a shinny pipe,chain or knife may not cut it in some areas,...there will be a investigation into the shooting,.. so i hope you dont go around spouting off about how you want to kill people,..and hopefully the lawyer of the dead person cant dig up statement like that to use against you in court.

your going to have to show that you did everything you could before you fired,...most burglars/criminals know when they hear a pump get racked,..its time for them to get the fuck on,.. if they stick around,.. that tells me there there to kill not to rob,...thats when the little brass bead gets lined up on center mass,..then if im wrong,..12 people will decide that,...but at least i wont have to be carried by 6



Originally Posted By cruzie27:...everyone knows that sound,...even if you have never heard it before.


HUH?? You have to explain this one to me...That makes no logical sense.
How would someone know what the hell it was if they have never heard it??

to be nice,...i'll explain it like this,...say you've never heard about shotguns,.. or been near one ever in your life,...but your breaking into ole' boy's house,...and halfway into the living room you hear that distinctive sound,...now you may not know what the fuck that just was but you know it was not someone picking up the phone calling the cops,..it was not a guard dog comming to bite you,...it was not someone getting a bat to come beat you with it,....no,....no that was something that is going to kill you if you dont un- ass the fucking house right now.

get it?


Example: If you had never heard a jet plane before, you are telling me that you would know it was a jet plane if you heard it, even though you had never heard it.

Somebodys been watching too many TV cop shows lately.
i could be really rude,. and come off like a asshole here,.. but im not,...you dont know me,..i dont know you,.. i dont know where you have been and what you have done,....and you dont know where i have been or what ive done either,...but i assure you,...if thats what you really think,...you have never been so wrong in your life.

KyARGuy



im just trying to give the guy some advice so he doesnt end up killing his neibors,..wife,.. kids,..so take your attitude and kindly blow it out your ass,..however i do agree with you about this:


Originally Posted By Kyarguy:

Originally Posted By Ligament:
An AK in 5.56/.223 chambering would be better than a shotgun: just as leathal(sp?) but much less dangerous than shotgun or pistol ammo when going through walls, hence safer for your neighbors.



Once again...HUH?? This statement makes no sense at all. Explain to me how a AK in .223 with a bullet exiting at ~3000 fps is less dangerous going through a wall than a shotgun loaded with #4 birdshot traveling ~1300 fps??

A .223/5.56 is going to whistle right through a wall like it wasnt even there. Id much rather
take a chance on hiding behind an average house wall with someone shooting at me with a shotgun
rather than a .223 rifle.

Take a day and go out and build some walls out of 2x4's and 1/2" wall board and do some testing
to see just what goes through what at different ranges.

The shotgun will be the safest to your neighbors. The rifle would be more dangerous than the pistol,
but not by much.

KyARGuy



Boma,..until you get a shotgun,...keep the AK locked up,..use that XD of yours with some quality HP rounds,..im sure you already know the XD is a superb defencive pistol,..and being you already have one you aparently shoot often,.. i would say it would be your best friend in a shitty situation. and if you have the light that mounts onto the rail,.. that would be even better,...cant shoot what you cant see.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:31:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clange:
Saiga-12

i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/clange/saiga-12-1.jpg


i'll take it
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:10:50 AM EDT
Cruzie27,

I get it. Sorry for my origonal post. Pm sent.


KyARGuy
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:32:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:21:14 AM EDT
Consut the ammo oracle or do a search her on arfcom and you will see there has been testing done on this subject. .223 will overpenetrate less than 12ga *buckshot* due to low mass and fragmentation. I agree .223 will overpenetrate MORE than 12 ga *birdshot* but birdshot is not an optimal HD round anyway..

This seems counterintuitive but the testing proves otherwise. This is why LEOs are moving away from 9mm subguns and toward .223 for CQC.


Originally Posted By Kyarguy:

Originally Posted By Ligament:
An AK in 5.56/.223 chambering would be better than a shotgun: just as leathal(sp?) but much less dangerous than shotgun or pistol ammo when going through walls, hence safer for your neighbors.



Once again...HUH?? This statement makes no sense at all. Explain to me how a AK in .223 with a bullet exiting at ~3000 fps is less dangerous going through a wall than a shotgun loaded with #4 birdshot traveling ~1300 fps??

A .223/5.56 is going to whistle right through a wall like it wasnt even there. Id much rather
take a chance on hiding behind an average house wall with someone shooting at me with a shotgun
rather than a .223 rifle.

Take a day and go out and build some walls out of 2x4's and 1/2" wall board and do some testing
to see just what goes through what at different ranges.

The shotgun will be the safest to your neighbors. The rifle would be more dangerous than the pistol,
but not by much.

KyARGuy

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:52:55 AM EDT

Boma,..until you get a shotgun,...keep the AK locked up,..use that XD of yours with some quality HP rounds,..im sure you already know the XD is a superb defencive pistol,..and being you already have one you aparently shoot often,.. i would say it would be your best friend in a shitty situation. and if you have the light that mounts onto the rail,.. that would be even better,...cant shoot what you cant see.



Yeah the XD9 is a good gun; I already have federal hydra-shocks in it and a couple of extra mags. I'm getting pretty good with it, as I have shot 450 rounds through it already. 16+1 rounds of hollowpoint has to some someone, it's just a matter of pulling the trigger fast enough.

The Saiga Sounds like a fun gun. Infact, there is a gun like it in a computer game called Battlefield 2. It's an AK that shoots shotgun rounds. $550 for this mod sounds like you're doing it just for fun though, because you can get a quality Shotgun for $200-300.

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:04:38 AM EDT
You just can`t beat the old 12 gauge pump with buck shot for home invading zombies
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:24:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalOpsAR:
just get a 12 ga pump that works reliably


say if you get sued for wrongful death of the CRIMINAL, then the attny pulls out that you used a evil AK assault rifle to take down their wonderful, loving CRIMINAL... i think it might cause a unfair bias



+100
These days it pays to cap someone with a PC weapon compared to an EVIL looking weapon.....
A Pump 12ga 870 or Moss 500....with enough mods to make it good and not so much that it can be an EVIL fighting shotgun..
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:41:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 9:42:30 AM EDT by ttman]
I have AR15, AK & shotgun. I bought the shotgun specifically for home defense. it is LOCKED in the safe. I realized I do NOT like guns loose w/o detachable magazines, doesn't mixed well w/kids. the AR15 is also locked up. Old reliable gets the night watch. Besides the AK can take the handling/abuse much better than the other guns.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:37:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 10:38:23 AM EDT by cruzie27]

Originally Posted By RS39:

For my compact home, I start with a .45 handgun



yeap that what ive got,..my ccw is .45ACP,....so at night it stays in the nightstand next to me with a surefire,.. before i go to bed i drop the mag of 230rg hydra shock and load up a mag of some of the lighter grain HP's

id love to use my mossy 500 but with the paper thin walls of this old house we live in now and a old lady living on the other side of those paper thin walls,.. i seriously dont want someone who does not deserve to be shot getting shot

now,. when i lived off post in tx,...i kept the 12ga bed side between the bed and nightstand with some of the clear S&B 12 shot 00 buck shot loaded and ready
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:45:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Boma:
What should I use for home defense?

This question is an obvious no-brainer, but I want to see what you guys will say.

I already have an AK47, but would want a shotgun later.

I have a lot of close neighbors in all directions except my backyard.



One word........
Claymore

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:30:30 AM EDT
good shotgun and good cell phone is good for home defense . if it turn into life defense
i will use what ever close at hand
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:32:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 11:35:56 AM EDT by GenghisKhan]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Well I wouldn't want you to use an AK for home defense if I was your neighbor, and you wouldn't want me to use one if you were mine. Too much penetration.




Read the Box of truth
Anything that will penetrate a man enough to reliably stop him, will also penetrate walls.



Actualy when I read that the #4 buck was good enough for a person and would not penatrate into my neighbors duplex. My .45 probably would though. I prefer a 12ga but there is nothing wrong with an AK. What I realy enjoyed on the box of truth was the 45/70. Now that baby did some penatration.


Link Posted: 3/9/2006 12:36:47 PM EDT
AK

i would rather have 30/75 rnds in a mag than 7/8 shells in the tube
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:25:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 3:26:58 PM EDT by M4-TUNA]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Well I wouldn't want you to use an AK for home defense if I was your neighbor, and you wouldn't want me to use one if you were mine. Too much penetration.




Read the Box of truth
Anything that will penetrate a man enough to reliably stop him, will also penetrate walls.

Yea but the AK round will go thru more walls then a shotgun round. i have seen evidence of that here in town with some drive by's.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:38:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
AK

i would rather have 30/75 rnds in a mag than 7/8 shells in the tube



I certainly understand where you are coming from and it is an excelent point but I do not think 8rds of 12ga 00 and 8rds in an AK are the same thing since I am throwing multiple shots at once. So for a couple of home invaders I still prefer my 12ga but I do have a Vepr and some 30rdrs next to my bed also in case some dirt bag starts shooting up my house from the street. I have had some of the local scumsuckers get fairly mad at me because we have tried to help some people who have came to us for counseling get out of it and there partners do not like it at all.
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