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Posted: 2/27/2006 4:26:36 PM EDT
Ok, I have been lurking on this board for well over a few months now... I am getting an AK... I have owned AR15s' in the past, but never an AK... I have shot a few though...

Being that I have decided to get one, I came here, and instead of just asking which is better, I read all the threads about the different models of AK... I understand that they are all guns that will go bang, and that manufacturer quality pretty much boils down to fit & finish only...

I have decided it is between Saiga and Vepr (although, I do plan on getting a Saiga S-12 as well as the Vepr or Saiga rifle)... I know the Vepr has an rpk reciever & a heavier barrel & is supposed to hold up better under long rapid fire, and all...

I know that both can be converted different ways to suit my needs... (minus the BS about RAs' folding stocks aside)

Now to my questions:

1: Do I really need the heavier reciever on the Vepr???

(I will probably shoot only on weekends for a few hours at a time, and will do some rapid fire strings, and AT THE MOST, maybe dump a few mags while shooting just for the fun of it. )

2: Will shooting at the above said rate warp the lighter barrel on the Saiga???

3: How much more accurate is the Vepr over the Saiga???

4: I would be getting the Saiga converted by Tromix, or another good AK smith, if I get the Saiga.

5: I am thinking the Saiga would hold up to a moderate amount of sustained fire... Am I wrong on this???

6: Or, since I wanna do some rapid fire (fun shooting) type stuff do I REALLY NEED the Vepr instead???

money wise, I am thinking I want to go with the Saiga & have it converted to my own preference... Convince me that the Vepr is so much more accurate that it is worth the extra money ( aside from having to wait on the thing).

I know this was long winded, but I did the research thru the board & these are the only questions I have left...

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:32:55 PM EDT
A Saiga, or any other AK for that matter, can handle any amount of rapid fire you can throw at it. You will wear out your trigger finger before you hurt the rifle.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:37:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 4:38:34 PM EDT by mike1972]
Really??? of all the info I have read about the different AK variants, they all say that the rpk reciever is the only one that can handle sustained rapid fire... Is it just because they happen to be selling the rpk reciever versions, lol...

If I honestly cant outshoot the barrel of the Saiga, And the reciever can handle it, then I am going with the Saiga... It looks like a good gun with lots of conversion possibilities...
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:07:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike1972:
Really??? of all the info I have read about the different AK variants, they all say that the rpk reciever is the only one that can handle sustained rapid fire... Is it just because they happen to be selling the rpk reciever versions, lol...

If I honestly cant outshoot the barrel of the Saiga, And the reciever can handle it, then I am going with the Saiga... It looks like a good gun with lots of conversion possibilities...




The RPK is designed for sustained rapid fire...........in full auto. It's basically the squad automatic version of the AK. In semi-auto you will never wear out either. The real advantage of the RPK receiver in the Vepr is that it is far stiffer than most stamped receivers. This coupled with the Vepr's heavier RPK weight barrel produce the most accurate out-of-box AK variant available.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:19:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:

Originally Posted By mike1972:
Really??? of all the info I have read about the different AK variants, they all say that the rpk reciever is the only one that can handle sustained rapid fire... Is it just because they happen to be selling the rpk reciever versions, lol...

If I honestly cant outshoot the barrel of the Saiga, And the reciever can handle it, then I am going with the Saiga... It looks like a good gun with lots of conversion possibilities...




The RPK is designed for sustained rapid fire...........in full auto. It's basically the squad automatic version of the AK. In semi-auto you will never wear out either. The real advantage of the RPK receiver in the Vepr is that it is far stiffer than most stamped receivers. This coupled with the Vepr's heavier RPK weight barrel produce the most accurate out-of-box AK variant available.



Ok, so since it will be a semi-auto gun, I won't wear either one out.... But as far as accuracy goes, at what distances does the Vepr start to show tighter groups than the Saiga... and how much tighter are they???

and doesnt the weight of the barrel determine the AKs' accuracy??? If it does then couldn't I have a heavier barrel put on it??? I know the barrel weight makes a difference in my ARs'
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:06:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:
The RPK is designed for sustained rapid fire...........in full auto. It's basically the squad automatic version of the AK. In semi-auto you will never wear out either. The real advantage of the RPK receiver in the Vepr is that it is far stiffer than most stamped receivers. This coupled with the Vepr's heavier RPK weight barrel produce the most accurate out-of-box AK variant available.

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:53:52 PM EDT
Hmmmm, so it's the COMBINATION of the two that makes it so accurate... Ok, so let me ask this...

At what distances does the Vepr start to show its superior accuracy... and what kind of differences would i see in the groupings at say... 50 yrds... 100 yrds... and 200 yrds???

also, thanks Biggerstick and dskeet for the info... much appreciated... I am starting to learn more about the AK system...
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:05:22 PM EDT
No problem Mike. I can't speak for the Saiga, but a Vepr in 7.62x39 is capable of 2" groups at 100yrds with good ammo. That's very impressive for an AK in that caliber. The .223 Vepr's can shoot sub-moa with match ammo, as good as any AR.

BTW, did you get my IM?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:12:14 PM EDT
Just my opinion, but if you are getting a 7.62x39 rifle, the difference in accuracy will be minimal. If the difference is 1 inch at 100 yards, what is the difference? The real difference is going to be how well you are able to shoot. Whether you shoot off a bench with a rest or are shooting offhand rapid fire, the accuracy will be determined on how well you hold on target. The accuracy of the two rifles will depend on those factors and the type of ammo you are shooting.

The real determination will be are you a MOA shooter? I'm not with any of my AK rifles.

If you want a rifle you can modify easily between the 2 it would seem to me the Saiga would be the choice on that basis. But that raises the cost of the rifle to where it approaches the cost of a good Arsenal or Armory USA rifle that is ready to go in the configuration where it is shootable out of the box. Unless you intend on dressing it up to look like an AR.

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:16:42 PM EDT
I can tell you with certainty, that you can not wear out the reciever on a Saiga. The barrel is also very high quality and would take 10's of thousands of rounds before showing noticable wear.

They are original AK's designed for F/A fire. They were then bastardised into "sporting" firearms with the added stock/FCG etc. Repairing them to original configuration is a joy that you should not cheat yourself of. It's cheap and easy, and there are threads here that tell you exactly how to do it.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:19:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:
No problem Mike. I can't speak for the Saiga, but a Vepr in 7.62x39 is capable of 2" groups at 100yrds with good ammo. That's very impressive for an AK in that caliber. The .223 Vepr's can shoot sub-moa with match ammo, as good as any AR.

BTW, did you get my IM?



2 inch groups at 100 yards suits my needs just fine.... I just checked my IMs, and sent you a reply...
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:21:59 PM EDT
thanks Mak & Bill Of Rights.... this helps alot....
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