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Posted: 2/14/2006 5:28:51 AM EDT
For pictorial proof, take a look at the bolt & carrier on the 3rd page of this thread:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=268682&page=3

and page 5 over on the Sig forum of this thread:


http://sigforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/630601935/m/188101984/p/5

Those parts look one hell of a lot like the AK. The original Sig 550 was developed in 1985 according to Jane's. True, the carrier rides inside the "upper" unlike and Ak - that has no "upper" - just a cover. But the design and shape of the carrier - and even more so the bolt - scream out "kalashnikov" to me.

I am in for at least one of these.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:42:16 AM EDT
I'm no expert but this is what world.guns.ru says:

SIG-550 featured AK-47 style action, gas operated, with gas piston attached to the bolt carrier, and with rotating bolt with two massive lugs. The recoil spring is located around the gas piston rod, above the barrel, and the bolt carrier attached to the gas piston rod by the mean of removable charging handle.


http://world.guns.ru/assault/as25-e.htm
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 8:35:00 AM EDT
Excellent; thanks for the added info. CBR
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 8:54:10 AM EDT
Yes, it's pretty much an improved AK. Hope they gear up US production soon.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 9:05:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 9:06:45 AM EDT by Stottman]
I disagree.

While the bolt and bolt carrier lock up/interchange are taken from an AK, thats about where it ends.




It uses design elements from allot of different designs. The AK is just one of them. It also uses upper and lower receivers like an M16/FAL, a different gas system, a different recoil spring set up, etc.

Calling it an AK though is allot like calling a G36, SA80, AR18, and others an M16 because they use similar bolt set ups.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 11:26:08 AM EDT
OK, I understand your points - but I thin the Sig also uses AK technology as far as the 550-series magazine catch as well as the lower being a sheet steel stamping that centers the magazine with indentations.

And the gas system looks identical to AK (where as the SKS uses a very different/short stroke system). Only difference is its adjustability - and some AK's have that feature, don't they?

It is very different in that the upper contains the bolt and carrier. I take it that what would be the trunion on an AK is located within the upper receiver of the Sig?

I think its a testiment to BOTH weapons that they seem to share design features. I much prefer the gas piston and the extractor on either gun compared to my many AR-15s.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 12:01:01 PM EDT
Isnt the G36 just a plastic AR18?
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 1:24:10 PM EDT
Not real sure...but I read somewhere that SIG is supposed to make a civilian versian by the end of the year..

Keeping my fingers crossed
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 1:29:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Epsilon:
Isnt the G36 just a plastic AR18?



Very, very close.

I consider the Sig 55X, especially the 552, to be essentially a very modern AK variant. So what if it is not THAT close? The Valmet and Galil are still AKs, and they aren't all interchangeable.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 1:51:52 PM EDT
Wow, Sigs look like really nice rifles. I wouldn't mind having one of those.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:48:03 AM EDT
Developing a new operating system is like re-inventing the wheel. Its much easier to improve upon an existing and proven design rather than spend serious $$$ on an unproven design which may be technologically infeasible *BAR10*. Small arms programs in the late 70's and 80's which spawned the G11 and others showed the designers that there was essentially no interest in "new", only in improved. Many weapons borrowed from the AK piston designed and refined it using more precise and modern Western manufacturing techniques. While its clear to see where the Sig 550 series was influenced by the AK, a copy it is not. A closer Sig copy of the AK would be the 540 series, and there is still some deviation. The closest Western copy of the AK was the FN FNC. Look at a dissasembled FNC and compare the pictures to your AK and you will quickly see what I am talking about. IMO, the FN FNC is the best manefestation of the AK design. Its truly an optimized/Westernized 5.56 AK with amazing capability. While not without fault, no weapon is, I believe the FNC to be one of the best combat weapons availible, especially in newer versions like the AK5 or even the AMR. The Sig 550 does not equal AK, though it did take some design ques from it....The FN FNC is your "AK clone".
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:44:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Epsilon:
Isnt the G36 just a plastic AR18?



Very, very close.

I consider the Sig 55X, especially the 552, to be essentially a very modern AK variant. So what if it is not THAT close? The Valmet and Galil are still AKs, and they aren't all interchangeable.



Yes, but the Valmet and Galil share the same basic layout or design.. Doesnt matter if the parts interchange. The only things changed on the Valmet and Galil are minor, non functioning things like the stock, sights, safety set up (Galil), flash hider etc..
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:40:43 AM EDT
When I was at a infantry test for the SIG a few years back the Fellow from SIG described his companies 551 as having a "modified Kalashinkov" operating system.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 4:48:24 AM EDT
Keep in mind I'm not talking about the way it' built, I'm talking about the way it works. It's operating scheme is the same.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 4:52:20 AM EDT
And yes, Sig will be producing a version in the US for the civilian market, but unfortunately, they will accept AR mags, not the cool clear snap together Sig mags. I think there may be other differences, too, but I don't know for sure.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:05:20 AM EDT

And yes, Sig will be producing a version in the US for the civilian market, but unfortunately, they will accept AR mags, not the cool clear snap together Sig mags. I think there may be other differences, too, but I don't know for sure.



AR stock.....new handguards.

Look HERE



Link Posted: 2/16/2006 9:39:25 AM EDT
I know...I know...they ass raped it royaly before they gave it to us. Made it's buttstock and pistol grip gay. Screwed with the handgaurds, too but I can almost live with that. If aftermarket 'correct' parts are made, I'll get one.

I can understand and live with the AR mags.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 9:40:31 AM EDT
Oh, and the stupid hi-rise rail has to go bye bye, too.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 11:20:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 11:21:09 AM EDT by CBR900]

Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
Oh, and the stupid hi-rise rail has to go bye bye, too.



Good news on two points Chris:

1) High rail comes right off w/ several screws.

2) From all the feed back that Sig is seeking, there is interest in an iron sight like to original or like the one on the HK 91 and 93 (see 550 diagram above - thanks Stottman).

They made clear that the SHOT show guns were NOT the finalized version of the gun that will be released.
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