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Posted: 2/13/2006 1:28:35 PM EDT
Inspired by recent news that Wolf, everyone's favorite Russian ammo company, will be offering two loadings in this emerging cartridge.

It just so happens that this magnificently flat shooting cartridge is also based on the classic 39mm case.

CAN it be done?

WILL it be done?

IS it worth doing?

Expert opinions appreciated, as I am no expert... just a man suffering from nocturnal ejaculation over this cartridge.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:59:01 PM EDT
don't really see the point in offering that cartridge, since the AKs needed for them will be almost as much as a 6.8spc AR. And I'm sure someone will then just stick with that, no need for an AK in that caliber.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:03:09 PM EDT
It is already an ongoing project of some people over on gunco.com
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:31:40 PM EDT
and how much are they suggesting for those builds?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:32:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
and how much are they suggesting for those builds?


Dirt cheap. Check out the thread, it's 25+ pages now IIRC.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:35:00 PM EDT
That is an interesting option......
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:38:08 PM EDT
sorry but i wouldnt spend the money 6.8 costs to shoot an AK...no sir

it seems like a waste

ill pass
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 9:48:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 9:49:12 PM EDT by BulletBait]
Dieter, we are talking about 6.5 not 6.8.
I agree that 6.8 is a waste, it does nothing that the 7.62X39 with modern bullets can't do.

The 6.5 is a whole different story, it is almost the equal to the 6.5 Swede.
Only a few animals in the world that can't be killed with that.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:12:54 PM EDT
The virtue of the 6.5 is long range precision and good BC. AK's don't have the precision to take advantage of the cartridge. With all the good loads in 7.62x39, it's a waste of money IMO.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:25:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BulletBait:
Dieter, we are talking about 6.5 not 6.8.
I agree that 6.8 is a waste, it does nothing that the 7.62X39 with modern bullets can't do.

The 6.5 is a whole different story, it is almost the equal to the 6.5 Swede.
Only a few animals in the world that can't be killed with that.



either way, its a waste...
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 12:50:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dieter122:

Originally Posted By BulletBait:
Dieter, we are talking about 6.5 not 6.8.
I agree that 6.8 is a waste, it does nothing that the 7.62X39 with modern bullets can't do.

The 6.5 is a whole different story, it is almost the equal to the 6.5 Swede.
Only a few animals in the world that can't be killed with that.



either way, its a waste...


You two are missing the point, let me spell it out.

Long range is for gamesters.WORTHLESS in most real life shooting.
Most hunters shoot at 150 yards or less, you really don't need something that hit out to "east bum fuck".
That is why the Lever .30-30 is still the king of deer hunting.
7.62X39 is only a little better than .30-30, good for deer sized game only.

A guy in Alaska killed a MOOSE with 6.5 grendal this year.
An AK in 6.5 would be a perfect all around hunting, truck, self-defense gun.
The round can handle anything from varmint to moose.
With an AK there is no need to worry about it getting banged around in the ATV scabbard, no need to worry about snow/sleet/mud/dirt locking it up, almost no need to clean it. The chances of it breaking are extreamly low.

Just pack it and go.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:11:41 AM EDT
Maybe the 30-30 was/is king in the East. Different story in the West, where long range shots are common. I can't see why a more accurate, more powerful round for an AK platform would be a bad thing.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:16:41 AM EDT
That ain't NO dream, it's a nightmare!

If you want a good 6.5mm long range club for your bag, the 6.5mm X 08 (260Rem) on an AR10T platform is the way to go. As it's hard to argue w/ 4-5" groups at 1000 yards which this set-up manages easily.

Mike
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:41:34 AM EDT
If I wanted to hunt with an AK, I'd hurry up and buy the Romak-3 I've been wanting for years.

*still hunts with a .30-30 Winchester Model 94*
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 1:32:20 PM EDT
I think such a flat shooting round would be pretty sweet out of the AK. Obviously it won't be as precise as it can be out of an AR, but it would still make for an excellent round for pratical combat.

That's often sited as one of the 7.62x39mm deficiencies, it's far-from-flat trajectory. It's the reason 5.45 was invented. The 6.5x39mm shoots flatter than 5.56/5.45, and still retains plenty of "oomph."

The case head of the 6.5 Grendel is exactly the same as that of 7.62x39mm (http://www.gunco.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12250&page=3 - fourth post down).... so a standard bolt carrier assembly from an AK would work. Think of the military application people... with Wolf making this cartridge now for $7/box I wouldn't be surprised if the Russians started looking at 6.5mm to replace the 5.45 somewhere down the line.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 2:09:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 2:10:21 PM EDT by MauserMark]
sounds great, but they're making better versions of the 7.62x39 that are meeting all of these issues.

And realistically, for how the AK has been used, the trajectory issues was never really an issue, which is why it's such a widely distributed weapon even to this day.

for the crazy commando tactical match freaks like us, it might be an issue, to the common insurgent/guerilla or conscript in Chechnya it's a non-issue I'm sure.

and again in Russia, the AK103's and AKMs are now using the newer version of the 7.62x39. The likelyhood is that they will probably go back to this round and drop the 5.45 eventually.

-mark
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 2:36:12 PM EDT
Why does everyone compare the 7.62x39mm to the .30-30? Way off!

The .30-30 has 2,050 Ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle, the 7.62x39mm has 1,500 Ft/lbs. at the muzzle. Plus, the .30-30 can go anywhere from a reasonably flat 125gr to a heavy 170gr. bullet. The heaviest hunting round for the 7.62x39mm is the 154gr. Wolf... excluding the subsonic 200gr. stuff, but that is custom.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:03:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
sounds great, but they're making better versions of the 7.62x39 that are meeting all of these issues.

And realistically, for how the AK has been used, the trajectory issues was never really an issue, which is why it's such a widely distributed weapon even to this day.

for the crazy commando tactical match freaks like us, it might be an issue, to the common insurgent/guerilla or conscript in Chechnya it's a non-issue I'm sure.

and again in Russia, the AK103's and AKMs are now using the newer version of the 7.62x39. The likelyhood is that they will probably go back to this round and drop the 5.45 eventually.

-mark



Any info on how this new 7.62x39mm performs? Bullet weight/speed?
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:20:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Q-gunner2:
Why does everyone compare the 7.62x39mm to the .30-30? Way off!

The .30-30 has 2,050 Ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle, the 7.62x39mm has 1,500 Ft/lbs. at the muzzle. Plus, the .30-30 can go anywhere from a reasonably flat 125gr to a heavy 170gr. bullet. The heaviest hunting round for the 7.62x39mm is the 154gr. Wolf... excluding the subsonic 200gr. stuff, but that is custom.



With the shape of the bullets required in a lever gun, the .30-30's bullet slowed faster and at 100yards the two cartridges were identical. There have been recent improvements on the .30-30's bullet design, however.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:04:21 PM EDT
The flat nosed .30-30 rounds are not required. First off, Savage made a bolt action .30-30 rifle. Second, a lever action can hold two rounds of spitzer style ammunition without danger- one in the chamber and one in the tube. This would not allow the tip of one round to hit the primer of another.

Even with the flat nose, they are not identical at 100 yards, the .30-30 has more energy at least to 250 yards.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 1:12:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 1:13:52 PM EDT by MauserMark]

Originally Posted By Kalash_223:

Any info on how this new 7.62x39mm performs? Bullet weight/speed?



I don't have the link or links off hand, in the last few years it's been discussed on this board, with pics and data of what was released by Russian tests. You'll have to search for it on this forum if possible or ask in the AK ammunition forum. But to be honest, most if not all of the real AK experts on this side left this forum about 2 months ago.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 1:26:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 3:19:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 3:23:31 PM EDT by Kyarguy]

Long range is for gamesters.WORTHLESS in most real life shooting.

If that is the case, then i am a Gamester...


Most hunters shoot at 150 yards or less, you really don't need something that hit out to "east bum fuck".

Possibly , but there are some that do shoot much farther than that on a regular basis.


That is why the Lever .30-30 is still the king of deer hunting.

...only because .22 LR isnt legal for deer.


7.62X39 is only a little better than .30-30, good for deer sized game only.

Nope...Not with the new Hornady Leverlution ammo that is out this year.
160Gr. Spire point @ 2400 FPS. that can be loaded in a tubular magazine without the danger of
recoil detonation. Sighted in 3" high at 100 yards, it is dead on at 200 yards, and 12.5" low at 300 yards.
It makes that old 30-30 in to a legitimate 300 yard deer gun.


A guy in Alaska killed a MOOSE with 6.5 grendal this year.

A moose isnt a particularly difficult animal to kill. Kind of like a cow. A.22 short to the head kills a 1000 lb steer like there is no tomorrow. Eskimos routinely hunt 1700lb polar bears with a .22 hornet, but i wouldnt go run out and try to hunt polar bear with it. There are better tools to do the job.

With the shorter barrel of an AK. i doubt you would be able to duplicate the accuracy and ballistics
in the 6.5 when compared to a standard 24" bolt action hunting rifle. What do you do for mags??
Will it feed from a standard AK mag??

If you want something bigger in an AK, get something in .308... I bet you can kill a moose with it too.

Waste of time and money

KyARGuy

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:35:11 PM EDT
Yeah... long range is worthless... which is why so many countries rushed to copy the Dragunov and why the .50 BMG is so popular.

Hey, speaking of hunting, I killed a 7 point buck from about 15 yards. 150 yards my arse. My brother shot a deer from 600 yards from a .270. It all depends on where and what. I second what he said about cows, we have a family owned 128 acre cattle farm and the .22 to the head is what we use. No cow has lived to complain.
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