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Posted: 2/11/2006 5:52:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 5:53:10 AM EDT by kdmoore]
Sorry, this isn't first hand knowledge, but I wanted to share what they are talking about on Saiga.com

Here's the link

RAA S-12's have 17.2" barrels

And a quote ..


All the ones I got from FBMG and RSR have 17.2" barrels. They would be 18.2" if the choke was blind pinned in place.


Just a heads up. You might want to let the dust settle on this one before you get one ...
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:59:38 AM EDT
Ouch. Wonder if anyones gonna get their dog shot and door kicked over this one...
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:27:27 AM EDT
Everyone needs to calm down. This is NOT the first time this has happened, and the ATF did not decide that the others were NFA weapons and had them recalled or destroyed. There were a boat load of HK-53's that were brought in that had 15" bbls on them and the ATF said, you have 60 days to weld the flash hider on. It was as simple as that.

I am going to meet with RAAC in about 20 minutes, and we are going over to the ATF booth and explain the problem and ask for them to render a position letter on it and we will get it fixed.

For those that are wondering how this happened to some guns, but not others, part of the shipment is left overs from the EAA days. The others are newer manufacture, and these have the problem. It is simply a matter of the Russians not understanding our laws and the way things work over here. It is not an issue of them trying to screw over their new market and cost everyone money, and it is not an issue of RAAC just sending them out knowing that there was a problem. Sure, lets just send them out and screw over all our customers, while we open ourselves up to all kinds of legal issues and additional expenses that could bankrupt the company Yeah, that makes lots of sense.

As I said, everyone needs to calm down, and let the ATF and Importers work it out. I will post a new thread from the ATF booth and let everyone kn ow what their response is, and how the situation is going to be fixed.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:43:28 AM EDT
Yeah but the ATF's "rules" change depending how the wind blows it seems. Who knows how they'll handle this one, that is how unpredictable they are..

Nothing but a bunch of Brownshirts anyways.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:54:31 AM EDT
I expect the CDNN clearance to start within 90 days
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 9:47:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 9:48:07 AM EDT by Barrelburner]
..
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 10:02:39 AM EDT
I suspect they measured the barrel length for the overall length of the barrel assembly, not to the breech face the way it's measured by ATF. Either that or a problem with metric conversion somewhere along the line.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 10:05:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By robpiat:
I expect the CDNN clearance to start within 90 days




Link Posted: 2/11/2006 10:15:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gamma762:
I suspect they measured the barrel length for the overall length of the barrel assembly, not to the breech face the way it's measured by ATF. Either that or a problem with metric conversion somewhere along the line.



I just got one from RSR and measuring with the included choke screwed on it's like a hair over 19" so I'm sure that's what happened.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 10:24:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomovich:

Originally Posted By Gamma762:
I suspect they measured the barrel length for the overall length of the barrel assembly, not to the breech face the way it's measured by ATF. Either that or a problem with metric conversion somewhere along the line.



I just got one from RSR and measuring with the included choke screwed on it's like a hair over 19" so I'm sure that's what happened.


I didn't mean measure the choke, I meant measure the barrel assembly including locking lugs, not to the breech face.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 10:41:26 AM EDT
That is correct also. When I measured from the bare muzzle to the barrel "extensions" it was a hair over 18" also. Either way, I can see how they let these "slip through" (sort of, kinda like).
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 10:54:06 AM EDT
sounds like a job for some tromix flash hiders
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:12:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomovich:

Originally Posted By robpiat:
I expect the CDNN clearance to start within 90 days






Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:21:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PvtPyle:
Everyone needs to calm down. This is NOT the first time this has happened, and the ATF did not decide that the others were NFA weapons and had them recalled or destroyed. There were a boat load of HK-53's that were brought in that had 15" bbls on them and the ATF said, you have 60 days to weld the flash hider on. It was as simple as that.

I am going to meet with RAAC in about 20 minutes, and we are going over to the ATF booth and explain the problem and ask for them to render a position letter on it and we will get it fixed.

For those that are wondering how this happened to some guns, but not others, part of the shipment is left overs from the EAA days. The others are newer manufacture, and these have the problem. It is simply a matter of the Russians not understanding our laws and the way things work over here. It is not an issue of them trying to screw over their new market and cost everyone money, and it is not an issue of RAAC just sending them out knowing that there was a problem. Sure, lets just send them out and screw over all our customers, while we open ourselves up to all kinds of legal issues and additional expenses that could bankrupt the company Yeah, that makes lots of sense.

As I said, everyone needs to calm down, and let the ATF and Importers work it out. I will post a new thread from the ATF booth and let everyone kn ow what their response is, and how the situation is going to be fixed.



Appreciate the calm voice of reason, and for getting the right parties talking. Let us know how it goes. Wasn't trying to start up a panic, but folks ought to know if they are going to required to add labor/parts. I'm guessing the dealers will get hit the hardest, but hopefully the costs flow back to the Russians?


Yeah but the ATF's "rules" change depending how the wind blows it seems. Who knows how they'll handle this one, that is how unpredictable they are..



I guess they can change thier minds, but if they get the letter from the ATF that's about as good as you could hope for.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:48:13 PM EDT
We just spoke with ATF, we are actually using their table to write this.... This is an easy fix to the problem according to Rick Vasquez from Tech Branch. If you have a saiga of any kind, from any importer, you need to measure the barrel and fix it.

Measure the barrel from the bolt face closed to the end of the barrel with the choke off.

IF you have a gun that is out of spec, call your local plumber and have him silver solder it on, or weld it in place. Do not call the ATF and freak out about it. Do not call your local PD and freak out about it. Just fix it. The ATF is not as concerned about the violations on the holders end, they just want them fixed. We are dealing with the import and sales violations now. That is what they are concerned about.

IF you have a gun that is out of spec, regardless of who you got it from or when you got it, please email it to us ( sales@fbmginc.com) or call it in to us so we can compile it for the Russian plant and address the quality control issue. Please do not waste your time or ours by posting the number here

IF you have a gun that is out of spec and got it from us we will make it right. We do not yet know how, we are working with RAAC on that. If you have a gun in question and want the removeable choke, we will exchange the gun for you. Please contact us directly for this.

We all have seen how the ATF operates, and how things can change in the agency. This is what they are saying today, so take advantage of it and do what you need to do and we can address things on our end once everyone is clear of any issues. The ATF will be addressing this in writing very shortly, so again, do what you have to do RIGHT NOW. If you choose to wait for any other kind of resolution, more than likely it will become YOUR problem. Again, if you fix it now we will do what we can to fix your problem once everyone is clear.

Thanks,
FBMG
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