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Posted: 1/31/2006 9:33:16 AM EDT
I was looking at the ATF form 7 and wondering if any of you guys have applied or thought about applying.
I think it would be nice to have for the obvious reasons and to help some friends out, i.e guns at a couple bucks over dealer cost and $5.00 transfers. Any experience with this? I don't mean those who run a huge business.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 11:48:42 AM EDT
I would but I don't have a premises to run what they would consider a "business" and I couldn't have regular working hours. I do know of two of kitchen table dealers though it can be done. They mean the FFL to be for a regular business, you will have to talk the talk when you are interviewed. There is a company that advertises in SGN that has a kit and advice about how to get a kitchen table dealer FFL easier.

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:01:40 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:03:17 PM EDT
check your zoning before you get all hot and bothered about anything. that's their biggest deal.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:48:26 PM EDT
With the prevalance of online dealing and auctions, I dont see why you couldnt do one for an online only store.

"In the business of selling firearms" is very vague, mainly that you are repetitively buying and selling firearms, there are no set number you must sell, its an intent to do business, and you need the license to do so.

I think trolling gunshops for deals to sell on Gunbroker is a legitimate business anymore, hell, Ive found some deals both in person, and online, besides, offer to do transfers for online purchases as well, every auction site has a list, and its one more avenue of business.

If they give you shit, point to Amazon.com, and its total seperation from the brick and mortar business model.

The BATFE may make it difficult for you, but if you pass the background check, meet local zoning laws if there are any, and have a good gun safe, I dont see why they could deny you, if they do, fight the decision, they are denying you a livelyhood.

Now, you will find discrimination from some wholesalers, Accusport comes to mind, they refused to sell to me years ago, when I didnt have a seperate business address, and they have lost THOUSANDS in sales since, then, I've never forgotten, and I will NEVER deal with them, they are not the friend of the small dealer.

One thing is this though, if you think that you are going to do this, and buy 3 guns a year for yourself, and your books show you've never made transfers to someone else, its a good case to deny a renewal, you must make an effort to be a gun dealer, if its to save 20 bucks three times a year, dont bother, its not worth the pain in the ass.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:03:07 PM EDT
What frick says is spot on. If you pass the zoning and interview hurdles and get a FFL, you need to keep everything seperate and run it like a business. That means buying a seperate gun safe and devoting a portion of a room to only deal with the FFL side and not mix your private collection what is being dealt with in transfers. The ATF keeps the "being in the business" wording vague for a reason and is only up to their interpetation. That means you need to make more transfers outside of you and your friends to make it show you are serious about "being in the business".

Also, you do want to stay off the ATF radar. That means you do not wanting to be selling a high percentage of "cheaper" handguns or guns that are tradiontally might show up at a crime. Being a low volume seller but having a higher percentage of trace backs will get you on the ATF radar and they will then ream you on the true nature of your FFL. Your "friends" will get all the perks of a cheap transfer dealer but yourself and your household will open yourself to having the ATF making a visit anytime and anyway they so choose.

Hootbro
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:44:44 PM EDT
I've got an FFL. I sell items here part time, at a few bucks over wholesale. The problem is that members here, or elsewhere, don't realize that we have to make enough to continue paying our license fees, local commercial retail fees and keep an inventory.

In return for buying items, I always attempt to add very little to my cost. However, that works both ways. If members are reluctant to buy, I can't sell. If I don't sell, the consumer ultimately suffers. Why? The retailer then has to increase costs per item, just to survive. It's a matter of fundamental economics. On a bigger scale, if consumers don't buy...the economy suffers. GNP is everything.

Case in point:

I've got a Glock 19 on the boards right now for $450.00 + actual shipping. As a potential buyer without an FFL, I'm thinking, "OK. I have to spend money on dealer transfer fees, possibly background check fees, etc., in addition to what "Bud" wants for his pistol and S/H/I."

Fair enough. However, I purchased this pistol for $440.00 from RSR Wholesalers. Now, you have to remember that I have to pay shipping to my business as well. In some cases, distributors will only ship overnight air. You do the math. Yet, I haven't had one member here jump on this price. In fact, they've continually offered much less than my asking price. Attempting to "lowball" the asking price.

Nobody can remain in business this way. I sometimes wonder how the vendors here actually make it.

Regards,

Bud

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:22:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bachelor_of_Science:
I've got an FFL. I sell items here part time, at a few bucks over wholesale. The problem is that members here, or elsewhere, don't realize that we have to make enough to continue paying our license fees, local commercial retail fees and keep an inventory.

In return for buying items, I always attempt to add very little to my cost. However, that works both ways. If members are reluctant to buy, I can't sell. If I don't sell, the consumer ultimately suffers. Why? The retailer then has to increase costs per item, just to survive. It's a matter of fundamental economics. On a bigger scale, if consumers don't buy...the economy suffers. GNP is everything.

Case in point:

I've got a Glock 19 on the boards right now for $450.00 + actual shipping. As a potential buyer without an FFL, I'm thinking, "OK. I have to spend money on dealer transfer fees, possibly background check fees, etc., in addition to what "Bud" wants for his pistol and S/H/I."

Fair enough. However, I purchased this pistol for $440.00 from RSR Wholesalers. Now, you have to remember that I have to pay shipping to my business as well. In some cases, distributors will only ship overnight air. You do the math. Yet, I haven't had one member here jump on this price. In fact, they've continually offered much less than my asking price. Attempting to "lowball" the asking price.

Nobody can remain in business this way. I sometimes wonder how the vendors here actually make it.

Regards,

Bud



Bingo! Tell the people How much $$$$ you have to have in inventory alone. I believe its atleast 10,000 dollars or maybe more.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:23:44 PM EDT
I do this part-time, so my inventory is, well, say "diminished?" People just don't get it!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:30:57 PM EDT
It is hard to do. I have worked for a few FFL's before. To get the best price on the item and lowest price per item for shipping you must order a certain amount of products. To much and your have inventory that is not selling and order too little and you pay more for your items in shipping cost. And no matter what you do there is always a dealer selling it for less than your cost lol.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:14:47 PM EDT
Sounds like a lot more hassle than it's worth. If I needed a G19 I would pick that up cause I paid 500 for my G23. I was just gathering some opinions. I didn't own a gun in September now I have 10 and still need about 6 more so I'm always looking and I do beleive dealers have to make a living but 175-200+ seems a little high. That's what I usually deal with each time I go to a shop.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:25:20 PM EDT
Can you say ... The Tax Man Cometh .... Get ready 'cause he will ... I know
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 11:06:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcook76:
Sounds like a lot more hassle than it's worth. If I needed a G19 I would pick that up cause I paid 500 for my G23. I was just gathering some opinions. I didn't own a gun in September now I have 10 and still need about 6 more so I'm always looking and I do beleive dealers have to make a living but 175-200+ seems a little high. That's what I usually deal with each time I go to a shop.



My "profit" is usually 10%, if it's a local deal. I do transfers for $20.00. If an item is for sale on the boards here, my profit is around 8%. That's well below the numbers you presented here: $175-200.

Yes, it's a hassle, but the nice thing about it is, you can get your own weapons (Personal Firearms) for dealer cost. (You should see our one and only gunshop here in my city...outrageous prices). Until my business grows substantially, that's really what I'm in it for. Also, to get my friends, both local and on the boards, good deals if I can.

Bud
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