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Posted: 1/28/2006 2:30:03 PM EDT
The topic pretty much says it...$1750 kits in awesome condition, but no receiver...any rumors of someone gearing up for them? Or at least full buildups for some exhorbitatnt price?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 2:39:49 PM EDT
VLTOR is making a few post samples and they're talking about 80% receivers, probably for SOT only though
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:04:28 PM EDT
it's more than a receiver, you are going to have to get a full open bolt to closed bolt conversion that is BATF approved, haven't heard of anybody working on this
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:17:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 3:17:56 PM EDT by Spooky130]
From Vltor's site:


With the recent importation of PK and PKM machine kits, Vltor has moved forward in the manufacturing of PKM receivers and related components.

In the late part of 2005, we set forth in the development of an improved receiver. Finally, after three months of engineering and development, we’re finalizing our pre-production prototypes receivers.

Our first receiver will debut at the 2006 SHOT Show, held in Las Vegas (mid-Feb). The first receivers will be made as post-86 “Dealer Sample” machine gun, available to those that present proper license and a “letter of demonstration” from a military or law enforcement official (that’s qualified).

We hope to offer 80% complete receivers to those manufactures that would like to produce their own post-86 dealer sample. The mentioned manufacturers must qualify by presenting a copy of their Type 07 manufacture's license and a proof of an updated SOT (Special Occupational Tax) to cover that Type 07 use.

Soon after we produce the first batch of Post Dealer Sample PKMs, we plan to pursue and manufacture a semi-auto PKM that is assault weapon ban compliant. After we get approval from the BATF, we will first produce complete guns and then shortly there after we plan to offer a “gunsmith” receiver kit. These kits will allow gunsmiths to complete the “manufacturing” process of the weapons for their clients.



The part in red has me pretty happy!

Spooky
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:41:21 PM EDT
I found this on photo on Vltor's Projects page. That's great news!

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:52:59 PM EDT
sweet jesus those receivers look simple
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:12:39 PM EDT
i so wish i could go to the shot show to play with one of those. god that is sexy!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:15:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fireputrouter:
i so wish i could go to the shot show to play with one of those. god that is sexy!!!!!!!!





I'll call you to tell you how it is
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:41:29 PM EDT
fvcker!!!!!!! oh well, you knwo my response to that one.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:41:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By fireputrouter:
i so wish i could go to the shot show to play with one of those. god that is sexy!!!!!!!!





I'll call you to tell you how it is




Man, you're just down right Nasty!
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:14:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By fireputrouter:
i so wish i could go to the shot show to play with one of those. god that is sexy!!!!!!!!





I'll call you to tell you how it is




How do someone get into the shot show? Is it open to the public?

wp
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:28:19 PM EDT
That is not the complete receiver and I did talk to them yesterday and they are going to develope a ATF approved semi receiver, just a matter of time. Mario Piece of History Firearms Tucson, Az
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:30:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PoHF:
That is not the complete receiver and I did talk to them yesterday and they are going to develope a ATF approved semi receiver, just a matter of time. Mario Piece of History Firearms Tucson, Az



What do you mean, "that's not the complete receiver?"

I didn't get any receiver chunks with my PKM. Is it a complex receiver? It it hard to build?

wp
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:51:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wackypeacock:
I found this on photo on Vltor's Projects page. That's great news!

www.vltor.com/kit1.jpg



Actually, they dont really look like a real one.. Real one is similar to an AKM receiver.. Basically a U shaped piece of metal, but with a bulge on the bottom for the ammo can attachment.

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:19:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Wackypeacock:
I found this on photo on Vltor's Projects page. That's great news!

www.vltor.com/kit1.jpg



Actually, they dont really look like a real one.. Real one is similar to an AKM receiver.. Basically a U shaped piece of metal, but with a bulge on the bottom for the ammo can attachment.




From what I can tell from my parts kit, the budge you're talking about allows access for the feed arm right?

Damn, I really Want to build one!

I've been wanting a PKM FOREVER! I've wanted a PKM since I first saw them in Soldier of Fortune, back in the early 1980's.

wp
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:39:15 AM EDT
Those are just the shells. The charging handle recess has a cover spot welded over it. You are right about the receiver bulge on the bottom but they worked out a solution to the stamping of this area. It won't look exactly like the original but if anyone is like me, I'd be pretty happy to have a FUNCTIONING PKM. Mario Piece of History Firearms Tucson, Az
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:41:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Wackypeacock:
I found this on photo on Vltor's Projects page. That's great news!

www.vltor.com/kit1.jpg



Actually, they dont really look like a real one.. Real one is similar to an AKM receiver.. Basically a U shaped piece of metal, but with a bulge on the bottom for the ammo can attachment.




Vltor states that this is an "improved" PKM receiver - see second paragraph. Unfortunately, improved means not OEM design

www.vltor.com/projects.html
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:46:40 AM EDT
Improved in which way? Are there problems with the original PKM?

I did talk to a dealer one time that had a Hungarian PKM and he said his receiver was developing cracks around the stock trunnion holes.

It should be interesting to see what they offer in their improved receiver.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:55:56 AM EDT
I hope the receiver with Vltor works out - I'd like to see them succeed.

The recent Hungarian kits have a bracket that is riveted on bottom of which the ammo can attaches to, but from the photos there also appears to be a buldge on the bottom of receiver that was produced at receiver pressing.

As far as cracks go around the buttstock receiver rivets holes, from what I understand this is where the first occurrance of receiver failure starts and is the same for all types of stamped receiver AKs
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:05:57 AM EDT
"Improved" is another word for cutting corners...
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:13:14 PM EDT
So Vltor tooled up to offer a viable alternative to just looking at your parts kit and you call it cutting corners? Why don't you ,Stottman, spend some bank and produce a receiver yourself without "cutting corners" ? Jealous?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:22:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PoHF:
So Vltor tooled up to offer a viable alternative to just looking at your parts kit and you call it cutting corners? Why don't you ,Stottman, spend some bank and produce a receiver yourself without "cutting corners" ? Jealous?



Yes I do.. If you cant do it right, then dont do it at all... If they had tooled up for a correct receiver, they actually would have sold more, even if they had passed the extra cost on to the customer.. Now they have lost what little collector market there was for one...

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:45:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PoHF:
So Vltor tooled up to offer a viable alternative to just looking at your parts kit and you call it cutting corners? Why don't you ,Stottman, spend some bank and produce a receiver yourself without "cutting corners" ? Jealous?



People who spend $1750+ on a kit, they aren't going to want to f**k around with an "improved"receiver, they are going to want somethign that looks like the real deal. The main thing Vltor will have going for them at the moment is they are the only game in town, but with enough people hollering for a 'correct' receiver someone else who isn't going to cut corners is going to eventually step up, and whatever money Vltor is saving right now in production costs by cutting corners will most likely disapper in lost sales at that point.

NDS has alread gotten criticism because their Romy RPK receiver skimps on the magwell dimples and simply uses welded in plates, which makes it a long-barreled WASR-10. And that is 'only' a $400 kit on a $150 receiver. I was going to do a Romy buildup on an NDS receiver, but the moment I heard NDS wasn't doing it the right way, just the 'cost effective' way I decided to not do it.

If it was all about the cheapest way to do it, everyone would be buying WASR-10's and companies like Vector and Arsenal wouldn't sell a single rifle.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:47:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dawg180:


NDS has alread gotten criticism because their Romy RPK receiver skimps on the magwell dimples and simply uses welded in plates, which makes it a long-barreled WASR-10. And that is 'only' a $400 kit on a $150 receiver. I was going to do a Romy buildup on an NDS receiver, but the moment I heard NDS wasn't doing it the right way, just the 'cost effective' way I decided to not do it.




Actually, the RPKs used both.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:55:41 PM EDT
Perhaps VLTOR will mold a modstock into the receiver

Can somebody give me some insight into the shortage of vowels in their name?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:56:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By robpiat:
Perhaps VLTOR will mold a modstock into the receiver

Can somebody give me some insight into the shortage of vowels in their name?



V = U in Latin, so VLTOR = ULTOR, or the Latin word for "Ultimate"

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:57:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Dawg180:


NDS has alread gotten criticism because their Romy RPK receiver skimps on the magwell dimples and simply uses welded in plates, which makes it a long-barreled WASR-10. And that is 'only' a $400 kit on a $150 receiver. I was going to do a Romy buildup on an NDS receiver, but the moment I heard NDS wasn't doing it the right way, just the 'cost effective' way I decided to not do it.




Actually, the RPKs used both.



Interesting...got any pics of an RPK with the non-dimpled receiver?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:42:21 PM EDT
YEs, check my AK pic thread in the AK reference forum. A few there.. Soviets dropped the dimple in 1972.. Not sure when the Romanians did.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:52:52 AM EDT
Did Vltor say they are cutting corners? The only thing they mentioned was Improvements. I'm going to give them a chance. If it visual looks the same, but internally different or better, then it won't bother me.

In fact, I'm going to call this morning and find out the real story.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:44:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wackypeacock:
Did Vltor say they are cutting corners? The only thing they mentioned was Improvements. I'm going to give them a chance. If it visual looks the same, but internally different or better, then it won't bother me.

In fact, I'm going to call this morning and find out the real story.



"Improvments" is just a word that US companies use when they change the design to make it cheaper to make.. Armory USA used "improvments" as an excuse with the 1.6mm and later 1.0mm receivers to justify corning cutting methods. How are you going to improve on Kalashnikov's original design?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 7:04:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:
Actually, they dont really look like a real one.. Real one is similar to an AKM receiver.. Basically a U shaped piece of metal, but with a bulge on the bottom for the ammo can attachment.




Actually the buldge on the bottom is for part of the feeding system that intersects with the bolt carrier. The ammo can mount is just riveted in on top of that buldge. Where you see the odd cutout on the receivers side and bottom is where they are going to weld in the additional metal. They did not make their stamping machine so that it punched that area out since it is easier to just make that on an additional machine and weld it in place. The two holes you see on the top and bottom of that gap is where the ammo can holder rivets in place.

In this case improved means that the receiver rails are actually milled and riveted in place. One of the biggest problems with the PKM's we had overseas was the rails warping under abuse. The milled rails will solve that problem, and help strengthen the receiver down the long axis. Not exactly cutting corners.

Lastly, the receivers you see there are not the semi auto receivers, they are machinegun receivers. They are not building these for the collectors. They are building them for post 86's SOT holders and for a contract they have. The semi receivers may indeed come with stamped rails, but why bother? If it looks the same from the outside, it looks the same. If the collector is that nit picky about what is on the inside they can either make their own receiver or pony up the money for a transferable one. IF they can find one for sale. But a slightly altered look doesn't seem to stop most of the collectors from buying them. Look that the guns by Historic Arms. Not exactly what the original was, but very close and very good guns. And Len doesn't seem to have any problem selling those.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:01:16 PM EDT
Really, How many parts kits do you think were imported? I ask you How much would you the purest spend on a receiver? I'd like to know and do any of you own or run your own businesses?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 7:58:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PoHF:
Really, How many parts kits do you think were imported?



Exactly..

A person is spending $1700+ on a kit, and who knows how much on a semi receiver+ someone to build it. By that point, any shooter crowd wanting a cheap shooter is probably lost.. All that is left are collectors..If thye are going to spend that much for a useless weapon (belt fed semi), the extra bit of cash that it would cost to do it right, would be money well spent.

Its just like all the semi AK receivers on the market; When something is not an exact copy extrernally, you loose allot of people.. How many more receivers do you think OOW or Armory USA would of sold if they had stayed true to the original design, even if they raised the price 50%? I would say allot.

Same with M14 receivers. How many people are spending the extra cash for an LRB vs a SA?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:11:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PvtPyle:
But a slightly altered look doesn't seem to stop most of the collectors from buying them. Look that the guns by Historic Arms. Not exactly what the original was, but very close and very good guns. And Len doesn't seem to have any problem selling those.



I know seven year olds that could do a better rendition of the RPD trigger guard with a pipe cleaner.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:47:14 AM EDT
No disagreement. The Vector gun is much closer to the original, and cheaper. But Len still has no problem sellng his.

As for how many kits, the ones Centruy brought in were a batch of 1000. The ones MGS is selling (same ones that a bunch of us bought in the group buy and the same batch Vltor got theirs from) were a lot of 700. And there were a bunch brought in before, amlost all of them ended up in the hands of movie prop companies.

And that is a big market that everyone seems to forget about. They buy LOTS of kits and post 86 guns. Almost all of the DShK kits we aretrying to get have been spoken for by the movie business. And with the amount of money they throw around, amking post 86 samples for them is very lucrative.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:06:12 PM EDT
I disagree. Those who want a PKM will probably pay for them, like semi 42's, BREN's and Vickers. What if the price for a receiver is reasonable? I know about the collector crowd www.pieceofhistoryfirearms.com But I get request for builds all over the board. Go figure. Mario Piece of History Firearms Tucson, Az
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 11:45:18 AM EDT
Man I wish I only had the money....

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